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Hip Hop Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Vexer on February 16, 2007, 02:23:10 PM
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When I graduated and started working and my salary had been going thru my account for about three months, I got a call from the bank congratulating me on my achievements and offering me a cheque account with an overdraft facility as well as a credit card.
To be honest I was financially ignorant @ the time and I took up the cheque account and credit card bcoz I thought the bank calling me and offering me this credit meant I was making progress.
Anyway, predictably I maxed out the credit card as well as the overdraft and was paying interest on this to the bank for a while.
Sometime in late 2005 I read Robert Kiyosaki's books, "Rich Dad Poor Dad" and the "Cashflow Quadrant" as well as a bunch of other books dealing with similar subject matter. I also started reading a local magazine called "Personal Finance".
That's when I realised that I'd basically been pimped and that I needed to turn the tide by changing my financial habits and to start investing.
Anyway, I've almost managed to turn the tide in that I'm almost out of debt and my investments are steadily growing.
I however get frustrated when I think of all the time and $$ I wasted bcoz I was financially illiterate.
I really think we need 2 be educated about Finance in school bcoz I basically had to go out of my way to educate myself about Economics, how the financial system works and how best to take advantage of it.
As much as Hip-Hop had educated me in some respects it was completely lacking when it came to the issue of Finance.
Firstly, it limited my ideas to things involving physical labour i.e. "hustling", and secondly, it limited my ideas to things related to the music business like a record label, clothing line etc (u know the typical Hip-Hop entrepeneur ideas).
As much as I knew about Company law and all that jazz, I wasn't educated about it from an economics standpoint so it didn't really fit it into my financial frame of reference. It was just work, period.
Finances is one area Hip-Hop as well as society failed me dramatically. I've virtually had to re-educate myself and pull myself up by the bootstraps but the pain of paying back what u owe as well as the pleasure of seeing ur investments grow has taught me a valuable lesson.
Broadening my horizons has alerted to me to a whole new world of capital and investments which was right below my nose but I couldn't see it b4 bcoz I wasn't taught how to.
I was also shocked @ how cheap it is to become an investor.U can start for as little as R300.00 per month which is a sum of $$ most people can easily blow on one night out but the difference to ur life in the long term is enormous.
I also noticed how much as consumers we are bombarded by ads offering useless and expensive credit like clothes, credit cards etc.
However, the financial institutions offering investment products don't seem to advertise as much.I'm sure if the average joe knew how inexpensive it was to start off with, most people would opt to invest. For instance, Old Mutual is going to introduce a product that costs as little as R50.00 a month to purchase an interest in shares within a particular cla** on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange.
This financial ish is serious and I'd advise all the younger dudes out there to really think twice when someone offers them a credit card or an overdraft.
It may take u a while to undo the consequences.
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Robert Kiyosaki's books, "Rich Dad Poor Dad" and .
Best read I've ever read. Cover to cover, which I usually don't do. Kiyosaki had me hooked on that. The insight is something very important. Simple concepts if you think about it, hard to implement but very well worth the effort.
I co-sign recommending that if you have'nt read it, it's not just some hype, it's worth it.
Have'nt picked up Cashflow Quadrant yet. But have come across other literature based on it.
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i recently entered the job market, and my understanding of finance and economics is limited to first year varsity exposure. from the little that i've observed, i'v learnt that credit can be a good thing and if used correctly can help you acquire essentials that you'd otherwise have to go without. i think along with your idea of tutoring the youth on investments etc, managing credit should also be discussed because I'm sure your experiences have shown you both the good and the bad sides of credit. Time value of money is an important aspect of this argument, being able to delay repayments for as long as possible without incurring any costs or penalties can be beneficial as in the meantime the money can be used for something else and then paid just in time to satisfy the credit terms extended to you. this is just one example of the ways in which credit can be used to make life that little more comfortable. ofcourse, a credit free life is the aim. however the reality is that most people cant afford everything cash.only the small percentage at the top of the food chain can do that and even they will use credit to their advantage at times.
nice topic yet again :wink:
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@ Tang I agree 100% with what u're saying.Unfortunately we're not educated enuff about financial management.
U're right its impossible to live without credit and a good credit rating. But we're not taught what credit is good and which is bad.U're just bombarded by all these options and bcoz we're financially illiterate we don't know which credit to choose and/or why.
As a result I feel like had I known all these things beforehand I'd have made completely different choices and would be better off than I am now.
Fortunately, I didn't default on any accounts so I wasn't blacklisted or nothing like that but I wish I had known the meaning of terms like "exposure" bcoz it would have dramatically altered my thinking and my choices.
I just think of the lost opportunity but at least I'm still young and I'm sure I'll make it up in time.Rather now than never.
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i feel you 100%.
all i can say to anyone out there who has any kind of income is this: go see a reputable financial advisor and get a plan in place. you don't need to be high rolling to start investing.
the relatively healthy state of my finances has always been due to luck more than judgement - i bought a house when i moved to SA and i got lucky with house prices.
i'd always laughed at the idea of going to see a financial advisor, incorrectly thinking that they were only for rich people with lots of a**ets. a friend of mine put me on to this dude and told me i'd never look back if i went to see him. eventually i decided to check this dude out and he was right,,, i have never looked back.
first thing he did was put a financial plan in place for me, then he opened an investment account with investec. he gave me options and advice and then he took care of everything i decided on. most of the time i just leave the investment decisions to him - all i do is decide what level of risk i want to take.
the other great thing is that you don't pay him any cash up front, he works on a commission basis - and trust me, it's a tiny price to pay unless you happen to be an investment expert yourself (which i am not).
obviously i'm not gonna go into details, but let's just say my finances are actually looking good for the first time in my life.
if anyone wants my financial advisor's contact details, just PM me.
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good amazon review of 'Rich dad, poor dad'...
"I know this book was a best-seller and has a 4.5 star average on Amazon. This does not make it good, and I will explain why.
First, most people focus on his inspiration and pointing out that you need to save money instead of spending it. To put it bluntly, "Duh." To be more constructive, there are much better books on this subject - for instance, "Your Money or Your Life." It's easy to spout platitudes about why you should save, but Kiyosaki doesn't tell you how.
Second, his real estate advice. Kiyosaki emphasizes making money in real estate, since it seems clear that is how he made his fortune. But he does a terrible job explaining that as well. People have lost fortunes in real estate; Donald Trump went from being a billionaire to losing most of his empire. It isn't easy. Kiyosaki himself says that winners learn from their failures; where are his failures?
Perhaps he should refer people to other books about real estate, but one of the books he recommends was written by a man who had a half-million dollars in tax liens filed against him and declared bankruptcy - all before "Rich Dad" was written. That isn't exactly the kind of advice I was looking for!
Third, experts in the fields he talks about generally agree that his advice is bad. A review by an experienced real estate professional is here: http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html. His advice on making money via IPOs is completely wrong; you can't invest that little money so close to the IPO filing for such a large discount. It just isn't done that way.
Fourth, his emphasis on making money. I like money, don't get me wrong. Like most people reading this review, I'd like to be a millionaire. But, I think, there is an underlying current of meanness in Kiyosaki's book. The way his "rich dad" kept people waiting and intimidated them with his power, the way Kiyosaki himself resented being left out of the parties held by the "rich kids." It's disturbing.
Fifth, for all the talk about spending less, Kiyosaki clearly lives up the high life (or claims to.) Rolex watches (why?), Porsches (again, why?)... all these are types of liabilities, which he spends most of the book saying you should avoid. It's flash, which I think ties into his rejection as a 'poor' child, and also meant to impress the reader by letting them think that, someday, they too will be able to show off their wealth.
Most millionaire's aren't this way. "The Millionaire Next Door", which cannot be recommended highly enough, has interviews with real millionaires who live modestly - in fact, probably living on less than you are - and yet they accumulated their fortunes through hard work. (Real estate and owning your own business qualifies as hard work!) It is a much more educational book, but is also more inspiring to see people like yourself who did make it.
Summary: this book has some decent information in it (but there are better books), is inspirational at points (but inspirational books are a dime a dozen!), and didn't really do squat for me."
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D.I see where u're coming from.I think Rich Dad & the Cashflow Quadrant are general overview books explaining economics in layman's terms but they don't provide u with specific strategies.
For instance, Kiyosaki fails to mention that u can go and see ur Financial advisor-a simple but important step in financial empowerment.
Instead he derides this as "retail investing" virtually downgrading investments like Unit Trusts and Exchange Traded Funds which can provide up to a 40% return on the Equity markets in exchange for minimal fees to the investment firm.
This is obviously bad advice.
He also fails to point out how easy it is to become an investor. For instance u can be an investor when u're an employee, its not some "top of the food chain" thing like he makes it out to be especially in the Cashflow Qaudrant.
However, those books r important bcoz they help u to start revising ur thinking process but Kiyosaki has also been elevated into a pop culture phenomenon and his books have become pop culture Gospels which is misleading and problematic.
U must still do more research and adapt the general outlook given in the books to ur own specific situation.
At least he gets u to think about economic realities in a different way which is is the beginning in mapping out ur financial future.Plus his language and examples are simple and accessible.
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Ha! ha! i never knew Robert has so many haters,after he said buying a house is not an a**et,its a liability.check out the net,what they saying.Ha! ha! even the Old man(pops) said Rich dad Inc is a cult :lol:
Anyway
Only read cashflow quadrant in 2000.
it shifted my mindset towards business,im still in the S qudrant,& im happy where i am,got my shit straight.U dig.
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good amazon review of 'Rich dad, poor dad'...
"I know this book was a best-seller and has a 4.5 star average on Amazon. This does not make it good, and I will explain why.
First, most people focus on his inspiration and pointing out that you need to save money instead of spending it. To put it bluntly, "Duh." To be more constructive, there are much better books on this subject - for instance, "Your Money or Your Life." It's easy to spout platitudes about why you should save, but Kiyosaki doesn't tell you how.
Second, his real estate advice. Kiyosaki emphasizes making money in real estate, since it seems clear that is how he made his fortune. But he does a terrible job explaining that as well. People have lost fortunes in real estate; Donald Trump went from being a billionaire to losing most of his empire. It isn't easy. Kiyosaki himself says that winners learn from their failures; where are his failures?
Perhaps he should refer people to other books about real estate, but one of the books he recommends was written by a man who had a half-million dollars in tax liens filed against him and declared bankruptcy - all before "Rich Dad" was written. That isn't exactly the kind of advice I was looking for!
Third, experts in the fields he talks about generally agree that his advice is bad. A review by an experienced real estate professional is here: http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html. His advice on making money via IPOs is completely wrong; you can't invest that little money so close to the IPO filing for such a large discount. It just isn't done that way.
Fourth, his emphasis on making money. I like money, don't get me wrong. Like most people reading this review, I'd like to be a millionaire. But, I think, there is an underlying current of meanness in Kiyosaki's book. The way his "rich dad" kept people waiting and intimidated them with his power, the way Kiyosaki himself resented being left out of the parties held by the "rich kids." It's disturbing.
Fifth, for all the talk about spending less, Kiyosaki clearly lives up the high life (or claims to.) Rolex watches (why?), Porsches (again, why?)... all these are types of liabilities, which he spends most of the book saying you should avoid. It's flash, which I think ties into his rejection as a 'poor' child, and also meant to impress the reader by letting them think that, someday, they too will be able to show off their wealth.
Most millionaire's aren't this way. "The Millionaire Next Door", which cannot be recommended highly enough, has interviews with real millionaires who live modestly - in fact, probably living on less than you are - and yet they accumulated their fortunes through hard work. (Real estate and owning your own business qualifies as hard work!) It is a much more educational book, but is also more inspiring to see people like yourself who did make it.
Summary: this book has some decent information in it (but there are better books), is inspirational at points (but inspirational books are a dime a dozen!), and didn't really do squat for me."
Yo D.
I hear you, some of the parents who have read these books are reluctant to pa** them to their children, bcoz of the "infamous" teaching(as they said) like drop out of school or varsity & start a business.
I think the point Robert is tryin to drive home here is that,Since we are way past the Industrial Age,people should embrace this new phenomenom of the Information Age.
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this is definitely the most insightful thread so far!
im a big fan of kiyosaki! before reading the concepts of financial intelligence and the not so simple concept of MONEY, i was walking in the dark! D is right though in the sense that some people read his work,get insipred for a few days, then miss the point totally and revert to thinking they should jus quit their jobs and stop working hard! i believe he is talking about being smarter and learning about the concepts!
He does mention that after reading his books you MUST seek further info by attending seminars and programs and reading more from other people similar to himself to empower yourself. Most people just think its done after they finish rich dad poor dad! They think they know it all now and continue the viscious cycle of financial ignorance, then blame kiyosaki and the rest of the world!
this is what we should be doin! getting our minds right!
Unfortunately like Kiyosaki said - most of us are brainwashed into thinking wealth and money and aspiring for financial freedom is nothing but a greedy evil thought!
Nice 1 Vex!
ps.the next guy who tells me he gone cop another whack cd by selwyn or jub jub or prokid! ima tell him to go get a book on financial intelligence! niggas jus dont read man!!!!!!!hahahahahaha :lol: its like kryptonite to us maf***ers!!!! :lol: hahaha!
great thread!
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bravo-cash
the first logical thing u said since u came to AG
am really impressed
take it as a compliment man........
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I really think we need 2 be educated about Finance in school bcoz I basically had to go out of my way to educate myself about Economics, how the financial system works and how best to take advantage of it.
mos def we need such education and interestingly enough people like Napoleon Hill (author of Think and Grow Rich) said the same thing back in the 1930's. somehow we still don't have such info readilly available, basically you need to already be financially enlightened to be able to seek out such knowledge...
if I got a rand for everytime I had to tell consultants "I DO NOT NEED CREDIT, I DO NOT NEED ANOTHER CREDIT CARD, I DO NOT NEED A LOAN..." I'd be a wealthy man...
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I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU ON ANYTHING VEXER, THIS TIME YOU'VE SPOKEN LIKE AN OLDER BROTHER.
COP THE RISING SON I MENTION THE BOOKS YOU'VE READ....FININCIAL FREEDOM IS WHAT I'M TRYIN TO f*** WITH......
Listen to my music
Productions of da chains
RHYMES N FLOW ON POINT
www.myspace.com/neoshantyentertainment
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This is it.....Another book thats a good read is Capitalist Nigga...man!!!
No matter what my issues or perceptions i have about the next man, they come second to my goals of living my financially free!!! I can handle any kind of challenge or responsibility as long as it has nothing to do with money!!! Money problems kill a n!ggas spirit and u become a victim instead of accepting and facing ur reality and doing what needs to be done in order for u to get where u need to be! Nobody in life should have to worry about money problems....if u r u aint living...ur surviving!!! And thats not a way to live....
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I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU ON ANYTHING VEXER, THIS TIME YOU'VE SPOKEN LIKE AN OLDER BROTHER.
COP THE RISING SON I MENTION THE BOOKS YOU'VE READ....FININCIAL FREEDOM IS WHAT I'M TRYIN TO f*** WITH......
Listen to my music
Productions of da chains
RHYMES N FLOW ON POINT
www.myspace.com/neoshantyentertainment
Good 2 c we could find some common ground at last!! 8).
U must be in a better position than most people given that u're a Broker and all.U've had a headstart in this financial ish especially on the inner workings of the financial system.
Some of us were only taught to think in words, its been a struggle training myself to also think in numbers & to understand that everything basically boils down to the numbers and that numbers don't lie (Except in the case of Enron that is) :lol: .
Altho I'm not exactly where I wanna be, I'm learning and trying to improve my financial game and I'm sure the payoff wil be worth the effort in the long run.
I'll give ur music a shot.Thanks for not taking things personally.Niggaz tend to get touched way toooo easily nowadays.
I'd like to think I'm not that much older than everyone else, I'm 27 @ the moment, but if I come across like an older brother then I suppose it means I got some wisdom.Thanks for the compliment. :wink:
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bravo-cash
the first logical thing u said since u came to AG
am really impressed
take it as a compliment man........
taken! word up B!
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I DONT CARE WHETHER HE FAKE OR NOT,THAT BOOK"CASHFLOW QUADRANT WAS INSIGHTFUL.
""""On 8/15/01, a reader told me Kiyosaki now has the words “Although based on a true story, certain events in this book have been fictionalized for educational content and impact,” in the fine print on the copyright page of Rich Kid Poor Kid. I had not previously been aware that “educational content and impact” justified lying. Also, I am now confused as to why Kiyosaki’s books are on the nonfiction best seller list if they are fictionalized.
‘Poor dad’
The idea behind Kiyosaki’s title is that his real father was upper middle cla**. He graduated from Stanford, Chicago, and Northwestern Universities, all on full scholarship, ultimately earning a Ph.D. He pursued a career in education and became the head of the education department of the State of Hawaii. He owned the home in which the Kiyosaki family lived. Kiyosaki calls him his “poor dad.”
“Rich dad”
One day, he asked his father how to make money. His father said he had not made much money and did not know how to make it. He suggested that Robert ask the father of his next-door playmate, Mike. That boy's father was a successful local businessman. He was also an eighth-grade dropout and ultimately a multimillionaire with a bunch of small businesses like construction, restaurants, and convenience stores. Kiyosaki developed a father-son relationship with the neighbor. That is who he is referring to when he uses the phrase “rich dad.”
One visitor to this site asked me if I was sure “Rich Dad” really exists. No, I’m not. In fact, I now lean to believing that there never was a “Rich Dad,” that Kiyosaki made the whole thing up. If I had written such a book, I would have named him in the book, if only out of gratitude. It is noteworthy that Kiyosaki refuses to identify “Rich Dad” and the Honolulu Star-Bulletin was unable to figure out who it was in spite of the rather obvious “next-door neighbor Mike whose father owns convenience stores, restaurants, and a construction company” clues. The man was purportedly around 30 to 45 years old in 1955. So he would be 75 to 90 now. How many people on that one street in Honolulu could possibly fit that description?
As I recall, the first convenience store was 7-11 and I believe they became widespread around the 1960s. It’s possible Kiyosaki is using the phrase “convenience store” loosely and really means corner groceries, which did exist in the 1950’s.
But I also find the mix of business unlikely. The guy owns “convenience stores, restaurants, and a construction company.” I guess I can imagine a guy who owns convenience stores and a construction company. It’s odd, but not impossible. However, I cannot imagine a restaurateur who also owns a construction company. For one thing, the restaurant business is extremely management-intensive. At good restaurants, the owner is usually there almost all of the time. Same is true of construction. Plus restaurateurs that I’ve known are very different kinds of people from construction guys.
A reader sent me an email saying, “One thing I did notice in a first cursory look this morning was this information from the Rich Dad trademark application:
> Other Data: The mark "Rich Dad" does not identify a living individual.
So as of the filing date (March 23, 1999) Kiyosaki's "Rich Dad" was deceased.”
Actually, the phrase “does not identify a living individual” could either mean that the individual is deceased or that he never existed to begin with. Or maybe not. Here’s an email I got on 2/12/05:
Just noticed on your site the following:
"One thing I did notice in a first cursory look this morning was this information from the Rich Dad trademark application:
Other Data: The mark "Rich Dad" does not identify a living individual.
So as of the filing date (March 23, 1999) Kiyosaki's "Rich Dad" was
deceased."
Actually, the phrase "does not identify a living individual" could either mean that the individual is deceased or that he never existed to begin with."
I'm a lawyer. The phrase "does not identify a living individual" in a trademark application simply means that the trademark "Rich Dad" does not refer to someone named "Rich Dad" (i.e., first name "Rich", surname "Dad"). So that bit of reasoning doesn't quite work.
But love your site anyway.
Kiyosaki’s real father (“Poor Dad”) was named Ralph Kiyosaki. I encourage readers in Hawaii to try to research Ralph’s home ownership when Kiyosaki was nine years old (1955) and try to figure out which adjacent or nearby homeowner might have been “Rich Dad.” If we can find a person who fits the description, and he is either a public person or dead, I will publish the identity.
1992 book versus 1997
In 1992, Kiyosaki wrote a book called If You Want to Be Rich and Happy, Don’t Go To School? It is “dedicated to Ralph H. Kiyosaki, former Superintendant of Education, State of Hawaii, the best teacher I ever had.” This would be “Poor Dad.” But Rich Dad Poor Dad, which came out in 1997, says pretty clearly that “Rich Dad was the best teacher he ever had.
So maybe “Rich Dad” was the second best teacher he ever had. No. Actually, the 1992 book also identifies the second best teacher Kiyosaki ever had: F. Marshall Thurber.
OK. So maybe “Rich Dad” was third. No. Kiyosaki’s 1992 book has an unusually long acknowledgment section. It lists 111 people, none of whom appears to be “Rich Dad.” That is, none are singled out except for his “Poor Dad” parents, in-laws, business partner, and editors.
Mind you, according to the 1997 book Rich Dad Poor Dad, “Rich Dad” supposedly became central to Kiyosaki’s life starting in 1955 when he was nine. So where was “Rich Dad” in 1992 when Kiyosaki was so diligent at identifying the people who had been important in his life?
‘Couldn’t put my finger on it…’
I have received numerous emails about this analysis. There have been several recurring themes in those emails. One is people saying that they liked Kiyosaki’s book, but that it caused them some discomfort or second thoughts or unease. They often say they could not put their finger on what was bothering them—or words to that effect—until they read this analysis.
‘Made me think about my finances’
The most common favorable comment I get about Kiyosaki from those who generally agree with my analysis is that “He got me to think about my finances.” That’s pretty lame.
The IRS makes you think about your finances every April 15th. You have to think about your finances whenever you fill out a loan or credit-card application. I also think about my finances frequently when I pay bills or receive income. People who are unhappy with their financial lives—which is probably the typical Kiyosaki fan—probably think about their finances every time they get into their shabby car or return to their unsatisfactory home (e.g., living with parents, bad neighborhood, too small, etc.).
I think these “made me think about finances” comments are inarticulate at best and dishonest at worst. What is really going on is a lot of people are schlepping along doing a half-a** job of managing the financial aspects of their lives. Rich Dad Poor Dad slaps them up side the head and tells them to clean up their acts. That’s good, but the book goes on to deliver a pack of lies that make getting rich seem much easier than it really is and make education sound much less valuable than it really is. Basically, people want to get rich quick without effort. Kiyosaki is just the latest in a long line of con men who pander to that naive longing.
Can the ordinary person get rich? Yes
Is it as easy as Kiyosaki makes it sound? Not even close.
Can it be done as fast as Kiyosaki says? Nope.
Is education as worthless as Kiyosaki says? Every pertinent study has shown that the more education you have, the higher your net worth and income. Also, educated people live longer, have fewer divorces, better health, and so forth.
On the other hand, the public-school system is an easy target for criticism. It is generally run by union bureaucrats who graduated at the bottom of their college cla**es. Colleges are also subject to criticism for letting students spend five or more years getting low-income educations in subjects like philosophy and social work. Wisely-chosen education—defined broadly as reading books, talking to successful people in the field you are interested in, attending courses, and subscribing to trade publications is generally the highest return you can earn on your money and time. Kiyosaki is just telling lazy and/or stupid students a line of bull that lets them avoid responsibility for their poor academic performance and gives them a convenient scapegoat to blame for their lousy financial situations. There is also more value to education than just its financial rewards. If you like philosophy and are willing to take a vow of poverty, you ought to study philosophy. Not everyone suffers from Kiyosaki’s need to impress people with how much money he has made (or claims to have made).
‘Missing the point’
Since I posted this analysis, a number of Kiyosaki “cult members” have contacted me to denounce me for “missing the point” of Kiyosaki’s book. “OK,” I responded, “Please tell me the point.” The odd thing is that each person has a different version of what the point of Kiyosaki’s book is—and it is never something I recall reading in the book. In fact, if a book has a point, multiple readers ought to come up with the same answer when asked what that point is. If they come up with different answers, it is either because the author was incompetent at communicating his point, or because the book has no point, or because the author deliberately obfuscated the point.
From now on, if you think I missed the point, don’t paraphrase Kiyosaki’s point to me. Give me an exact quote and the page number in Rich Dad, Poor Dad where it appears. I suspect everyone who is tempted to send me the point of Rich Dad will be unable to find in the book any of the wonderful advice they imagined was in there.
The only time different people look at the same thing and come up with different answers as to what it is they are looking at is when the thing they are looking at is amorphous, like a cloud or a Rorschach inkblot—or a politician. Politicians try to be all things to all people. That requires them to say nothing (amorphousness), but to sound like they are saying something (“the point”). They toss in a little spin to try to get all those people with those different views to see in the politician things that they like. Kiyosaki slogans like “Don’t work for money. Make money work for you,” are amorphous in their actual meaning, but have the effect of “spinning” the reader into thinking he has just gotten good advice.
Here’s a pertinent pa**age from Temple University professor John Allen Poulos’s book A Mathematician Reads the Newspaper.
“A similar argument helps clarify why inane I Ching sayings or ambiguous horoscopes seem to many to be so apt. Their aptness is self-provided. In effect, their cryptic obscurity provides a random set of ‘answers’ that the devotee fabricates into something seemingly appropriate and useful.…psychologists count on the amorphousness of Rorschach ink blots to elicit evidence of a person’s core concerns.”
My own supporters occasionally commit the mistake of reading things into my writings. I once got an email complimenting me on my writings. The writer’s favorite quote by me was, “When everyone is digging for gold, sell shovels.” I thanked him for his compliments, but said, “I never said that.” He then wrote back that he searched all over my Web site, but could not find it.
Cult
What Kiyosaki is really doing is operating a cult of personality. Anna Quindlen had an excellent article about such cults in the 8/14/00 Newsweek. She was talking about politicians and says they seek to elicit the words, “I don’t know why. I just like the guy.” Politicians want to be judged by their personalities, not their character or policies. To members of Kiyosaki’s cult, it matters not how many false or probably-false statements I find in Kiyosaki’s writings. They just like the guy. Personality is an appropriate criterion for selecting someone to hang around with. But it is a highly inappropriate criterion for evaluating Kiyosaki’s advice, because he’s not going to let you hang around with him and your family’s finances are serious business.
I am not a politician. When I write something, I want to make sure everyone gets the point—the same point. Here is the point of this analysis:
Rich Dad, Poor Dad contains much wrong advice, much bad advice, some dangerous advice, and virtually no good advice.
The 48 Laws of Power
Here’s an interesting letter I got from a reader:
“I'm glad I found your website on Kiyosaki, and all the other snake oil salesmen. I was deluding myself into believing him, even though I had that little voice in the back of my mind sending me warning signals (not to mention my wife)... Anyway, thanks for the info. Every once in a while, I do a search on Google and come up with a gem like your website. This is living proof that the Internet can be used for good purposes by people who are TRULY generous. Once again thanks for your work.
A few years ago I read a book by Robert Greene and Joost Elffers called "The 48 Laws of Power" (Viking, 1998). It is a "Machiavellian approach to the systematic study of power. Basically, it is written as a how-to book. It gives the cynical lowdown on increasing and maintaining one's power over others. It is truly an interesting and thought-provoking study in human nature. I thought you might be interested in the following quote, which I feel is particularly apt in describing the power strategy that gurus like Kiyosaki like to follow:
"Law 27 - PLAY ON PEOPLE'S NEED TO BELIEVE TO CREATE A CULTLIKE FOLLOWING. Judgment - People have an overwhelming desire to believe in something. Become the focal point of such desire by offering them a cause, a new faith to follow. Keep your words vague but full of promise; emphasize enthusiasm over rationality and clear thinking.
Give your new disciples rituals to perform, ask them to make sacrifices on your behalf. In the absence of organized religion and grand causes, your new belief system will bring you untold power." (p. 215)
Keep up the good work,”
Short on specifics
About every third email I get about this analysis me that they agree with me that Kiyosaki is short on specifics about how to get rich.
I never said Kiyosaki was short on specifics!
Not only does Kiyosaki’s hypnotic effect on many people result in their seeing things in his book that are not there, now they are seeing things in my analysis that are not here. Amazing! No wonder the guy can sell 11 million copies of nothing.
I would say that Rich Dad covers an overly broad array of financial subjects—real estate investment, stock market investment, note investment, and going into business for yourself. No one could adequately cover all those areas in such a short book. On the other hand, Rich Dad has a lot of specifics—as you will see below in this analysis. The problem is not that he is short on specifics, it is that the book is a bunch of bull, including when he gets specific. To say that the only fault of the book is that it lacks specifics is ridiculous. The book commits far more sins than that.
Money is all that matters
On page 14 he approvingly quotes “rich dad” as saying “Money is power.” [Since I wrote this analysis, Kiyosaki has changed the layout of the book making these page numbers wrong for subsequent editions. They are correct for my edition, which says published by TechPress, Inc. and has 1997 and 1998 copyrights.] On page 92, he tells of his “rich dad” keeping him waiting for long periods—when he was nine years old!! “He was ignoring me on purpose. He wanted me to recognize his power and desire to have that power for myself one day.” On page 172, he says, “I have found the principles of finding value are the same regardless if it’s real estate, stocks,...or a new spouse...”
On page 154, Kiyosaki says “the reason you want to have rich friends” is to get inside stock market information that you can make low-risk profits. He ends that discussion with the sentence, “That is what friends are for.” That is the narrowest, most mercenary definition of friendship I have ever seen. I doubt Kiyosaki is the only person who feels this way about his friends, but he may be the only one dumb enough to say it in a book.
Although his family was not rich, he attended a predominantly wealthy elementary school because of an anomaly in the school-district boundaries. The wealthy kids had newer toys and refused to invite Kiyosaki and his friend to parties, telling Kiyosaki it was because they were “poor kids.” Sounds like he was scarred deeply by that humiliation and has lived his whole life since trying to prove to some rude nine-year olds from the 1950s that he now has the money to be worthy of their party invitations. He told Meet the Street that he has never been back to Hawaii. I suspect such a visit would help him get rid of the demons from his childhood.
How much money does Kiyosaki have?
A number of people have accused me of being jealous of Kiyosaki—I guess because they think he has more money than I have. Others have said they are going to follow him because he is fabulously wealthy and that’s what they want to be.
How do we know this?
I know approximately what my net worth is. But I have no idea of what Robert Kiyosaki’s net worth is. Neither does anyone else.
He implies he has money. He has had four books about how to get rich on the business best seller list. He brags about owning a Porsche, Mercedes, Rolex watch, $400 golf club. The Honolulu Star Bulletin—the newspaper where Kiyosaki grew up—wrote a puff piece about him. You can see it at starbulletin.com/2000/07/1...ory1.html. In it, Kiyosaki says a number of things that imply he is rich. For example,
“I’m free to do exactly what I want, when I want, where I want. I can stop working if I want to. Money buys me freedom.”
The article says “Kiyosaki’s got his…” and that he lives in a $3.5 million dollar home in Phoenix.
A real-estate broker visitor to this site ran a computer search on Kiyosaki and said Kiyosaki owned two properties in Maricopa County, AZ (Phoenix). The a**essor’s records (www.maricopa.gov/a**essor/...etail.aspx showed a purchase price (10/6/99) of $1.2 million and a “full cash value” of $980,000 on his residence, 62 Biltmore Estates Circle, Phoenix, AZ 85016. Neither value is any slouch, but it ain’t $3.5 million. A visitor to this Web site who lives in Phoenix said Kiyosaki spent a lot of money on improvements finishing around April, 2002. A caller in July of 2003 said the house was worth about $2.5 to $3 million then. The other property (a five-room house built in 1979, 2,300 square feet, 1809 East Lane Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85020) had a current “full cash value” of $171,500. He purchased that 8/8/91. It was the house he moved out of when he bought the Biltmore Estates house.
A visit to the Maricopa County Recorders Web site recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocd...rame.asp shows that he bought the Biltmore home from an odd home seller—the National Model Railroad a**ociation. You can see at the Web site that the down payment was originally $23,000, but that was crossed out and $300,000 was written in. The recording number from the a**essor’s records is 990929308 10/6/99.
My search of the Maricopa County recorders office by Internet found a bunch of documents related to Kiyosaki. You can see that list at recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocd...PgDn.asp
Below are some deeds to Kiyosaki. I do not know Phoenix real estate so I would be interested in hearing from anyone who is familiar with these properties who can interpret whether they support or refute the notion that Kiyosaki is a big success.
recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocd...rame.asp
recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocd...rame.asp
I once investigated best-selling real-estate author Robert Allen who wrote Nothing Down. At first, he claimed to own his home. But when I checked the address which appeared on IRS liens filed against him, it was nonexistent—no house at that address. When I again asked where he owned his home, he admitted, “I rent.” I have the conversation on tape.
One of my MBA cla**mates, Paul Bilzerian, became a very successful corporate raider for a time. He stood silent while others claimed he was a wiz who had made $150 million in Florida real estate before age 30. I called him up to ask if that were true. He said I should read the article in the Wall Street Journal carefully. Indeed, it said he was “reported” to have made that much and all Paul would say in the article was, “That’s a good guess.” In other words, Paul was pointing out to me that it was not he who said he had made all that money. Paul subsequently was the subject of a Forbes story. They said they investigated his purported Florida real-estate profits and could not find a “trace” of him in Florida real estate. He later got into trouble with the law and was the subject of a 60 Minutes segment about his mansion in Florida that creditors could not get to after he declared bankruptcy.
According to the Honolulu Star-Bulletin, “Kiyosaki won’t say how much he is worth or in what he’s invested.” Kiyosaki claims, “I own companies. I’m a major shareholder in oil and mining companies, plus real estate companies. I have intellectual property companies.” But he won’t identify any of them. Why? As you will read below, one of my readers checked Kiyosaki’s claim that he was a major shareholder out in a securities industry data base and found not a trace of him in spite of the fact that major shareholders are required by law to be identified. If he is a “major” shareholder, it is in minor corporations so small that their shares are not traded publicly.
Kiyosaki says, “I keep my holdings private. You know why that is? Lawsuits. If you have money, you get sued.”
Let me get this straight. Kiyosaki says he is rich, that he “makes millions of dollars,” and is about as high profile about his wealth as you can get about it—best-selling how-to-get-rich books, appearances on TV shows like Oprah, interviews to daily papers and national magazines. Yet he won’t disclose any details because he doesn’t want people to know he has money. Huh? Not only is the guy a B.S. artist, he insults our intelligence.
Somebody needs to give Kiyosaki a book on how to be low profile. I’m sure it has a chapter that says going on Oprah to discuss your best-selling book on getting rich is not a good way to prevent would-be litigants from knowing you have money. Kiyosaki is, in fact, shouting from the rooftops that he has money. He just refuses to prove it. Or to let us investigate how he got it if he does have it.
I have always felt that implying you have money was worse than revealing your net worth. When I was in grad school, I took a labor relations course where actual union leaders were in every other seat with us MBAs. One said that one of the things they love about employers is when they keep earnings secret. That allows the union to tell the employees that the company is “getting rich on their backs.” That, in turn, causes the employees to vote for the union. Kiyosaki’s implying he is wealthy, but refusing to disclose how wealthy, will almost certainly cause would-be litigants and others to overestimate his net worth, thereby increasing the chances of his being sued over what they would be if he were more forthcoming.
Many small businesspeople adopt grandiose company names, like Pritchco Interplanetary, that make them sound much larger than they really are. I tell my readers not to do that because such names encourage lawsuits. I encourage small real-estate investors to use their own name, because people are more inclined to sue big-sounding corporations than an individual.
I suspect the real reason Kiyosaki refuses to disclose any evidence of his purported wealth is either
• It is much smaller than his followers imagine
• He did not get it the way he implies—for example, his wealth may come almost entirely from telling people how to get wealthy and he may not have been wealthy himself until he told people how to get wealthy
• He achieved wealth in an unethical or illegal way
• All of the above
For the record, I created another page to address the jealousy issue. Click here to see it.
On 1/14/02, a reader told me Kiyosaki was more forthcoming about his wealth at www.thestreet.com/funds/mee...6507.html. Indeed, in an interview at that Web site, he says his net worth is “between $50,000,000 and $100,000,000 depending on the day.” (I don’t believe that. He also says he was bankrupt and homeless in 1985. More about that later.) So which is it—Kiyosaki will not talk about his wealth because he doesn’t want to be sued or he will give figures, locations of his properties, and the nature of his corporations as he does in the Meet the Street interview? What happened to the lawsuit threat?
There were a number of points in that Meet the Street interview that deserve a response Kiyosaki said Reed comment
avoid mutual funds and 401(k)s because they are too risky Mutual funds vary in their risk. Some are very low risk. 401(k)s have tax benefits that are hard to ignore. Also, you can invest them in almost anything you want in many cases.
Bogus gurus like to give extremely simple rules. Ignorant readers love them. That’s fine when the subject permits. But this is an extremely simple rule that is not valid because of the complexity of the subject.
says his net worth is “$50 million to $100 million depending on the day” I don’t believe that. He was bankrupt and homeless in 1985 by his own admission. Although a lawyer who searched the federal case management system on line says he could find no bankruptcy filing for Kiyosaki. He claims to have sold 13 million books. I don’t know if I believe that either. The highly successful book What Color is Your Parachute? has only sold seven million copies since it first came out in 1970. But even if you accept the 11 million figure, Kiyosaki’s co-author royalty would appear to be about 72¢—not enough to get you anywhere near $50 million even if you had no living expenses. He claims to make money in other businesses, but will not disclose enough detail that anyone can check that.
Also, what’s this “depending on the day” nonsense? I presume that’s a shameless effort to impress people who are really ignorant about the world of finance. What he is saying is that his net worth doubles or halves within 24 hours. He implies that causes him not the least bit concern. Gimme a break! If my net worth dropped in half in one day, I would be pretty upset about it.
What must he be invested in to enable his net worth to double or halve in 24 hours? Pork belly futures? No one in his right mind would invest his entire net worth in an investment vehicle that could double or halve in 24 hours.
In the 2/03 Smart Money magazine article, he said his net worth was $35 million. Must have been a really bad day in pork belly futures. Actually, his book selling success notwithstanding, I would guess his net worth is more like $3 million, virtually all of it from book and related sales.
the investments of the wealthy are managed well Laymen think that. I don’t. The main thing in managing an investment is stock picking. That is impossible to do well on purpose. It’s a crap shoot. If anybody ever figured it out, he would not need to work—for the wealthy or anyone else. There have been numerous studies proving this, most notably the cla**ic book, a Random Walk Down Wall Street by Burton G. Malkiel. The wealthy do get good advice on legal implications of their portfolios, but not on how to earn a high return. The notion that anyone gets good advice on how to earn a high return in securities is a laymen’s myth.
says he was able to retire at 47 So why didn’t he? He hustling his butt off to sell stuff.
there are three different types of income: earned, portfolio, and pa**ive This is primarily an income-tax-rate distinction as Kiyosaki explains it. He says these types of income are taxed at 50%, 20%, and 0% respectively.
The phrases “pa**ive income” and “portfolio income” do appear in the Internal Revenue Code. I have used “earned income” to describe money you make from your salary or business.
In fact, Kiyosaki is spouting nonsense. The federal income tax rates on earned income, pa**ive income, and portfolio income are the same—not 50%—but your overall rate can get to that level when you add state income taxes. The distinction between the different types of income involves whether the losses from one category can be deducted from income of another category.
The 20% tax rate of which Kiyosaki speaks only applies to long-term capital gains. Those come from selling a**ets at a profit after holding them for a specified number of months. You can have such 20% -tax-rate gains in both the pa**ive and portfolio categories.
The only income that is taxed at a 0% rate are special things like municipal bonds and gains of less than $250,000 per person from the sale of certain personal residences.
It is possible to do transactions where there is no tax due at present, like IRC §1031 exchanges, but the tax-free nature of such transactions stems from the fact that you received no income. Rather you put the proceeds from the sale of one property into the purchase of another. If and when you eventually take out your profit, you will be taxed on the gain that you had when you exchanged.
I own 10 rental buildings in Miami, Austin, and Phoenix. Most investors use more specific terminology like “apartment complex” or “office building” or “shopping center.” Investors usually use the phrase “rental building” to hide the fact that their properties are mere rental houses.
You should not own rental property in three states unless you have a specific reason for doing so. Why not own all ten rental properties in Phoenix, where he lives? With Kiyosaki, I suspect he think having property in three states makes him sound like more of a tycoon. To experienced investors, it makes him sound like more of a dilettante. You want the property in the same region—preferably where you live—so you can use the same people to work on all the properties and save on air fares, hotels, and so forth.
One reader said investing in three different regions gives you diversification benefits. Only against regional economic downturns and possibly rent control if the buildings are bigger than one family. But rent control risk is better dealt with by staying out of multifamily and states that do not have a rent-control pre-emption. The risk of regional economic downturns is not great enough to overcome the disadvantages of spreading yourself that thin in terms of travel, personnel, need to learn different laws and markets, etc.
If the advice of “Rich Dad” back in 1955 was so great, how come Kiyosaki was homeless and bankrupt 30 years later? What kind of financial genius does it take to be homeless and bankrupt when you are a college graduate who had no student loans and were trained as a helicopter pilot by the military. (Actually, I got his military records. They show no flight school and no pilot’s wings. See below.) With all those advantages, and “Rich Dad’s” brilliant financial advice, the guy still ends up homeless at age 38? And if “Rich Dad’s” advice wasn’t good enough to keep Kiyosaki from becoming homeless in 1985, how did it suddenly become something the rest of us should be following in 1997?
I suspect Kiyosaki has done well from his books with the help of Oprah and Amway et al. A reader who refused to let me use his name said he attended an Amway meeting where Kiyosaki spoke and that Kiyosaki said his book was unknown until an Amway “Diamond Distributor” started buying it in quantity. He further staid that Kiyosaki urged the audience to focus on their Amway distribution business, not on buying duplexes and such. If anyone who will let me quote them can confirm this, I would like to hear from them.
I further suspect that his secrecy has nothing to do with avoiding attracting lawsuits and everything to do with preventing the public from finding out how much he really made and how he made it.
Clever life plan?
Kiyosaki would have us believe that he followed a coherent life plan laid out with the help of “rich dad.”
He says he went to the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy because he wanted to learn international business. People who want to learn international business while in college should go overseas to school, like to the London School of Economics or to a U.S. college with a strong international business or international relations department. The U.S. Merchant Marine Academy is a grueling ordeal that prepares its students to operate oceangoing ships. Going there to study international business is like studying construction and building maintenance to become a school teacher because teachers work in buildings.
Upon reading that Kiyosaki went to the Merchant Marine Academy, I figured his real reason was probably the same as many other Merchant Marine Academy graduates—he applied to a major service academy and got rejected. After all, the major service academies are more prestigious and students pay no tuition and actually receive a salary to attend. You have to pay for a small percentage of your expenses at the Merchant Marine Academy. A 1986 Merchant Marine Academy graduate tells me that about half of the students there were rejected by Annapolis or another major service academy. He said the other half wanted careers on oceangoing ships.
U.S. Naval Academy
I did not put my suspicion that Kiyosaki was rejected by a major service academy in this analysis originally because I had no evidence of it. Now I do. A reporter for People magazine interviewed me about Kiyosaki. In the course of the interview, he mentioned that Kiyosaki admitted to him that he had applied to the U.S. Naval Academy at Annapolis, but was rejected for academic reasons. So if he went to the Merchant Marine Academy to learn international business, why did he apply to the Naval Academy? Let me guess. To study oceanography? And I guess if we are to believe that he went to the Merchant Marine Academy to study international business, he must have deliberately flunked admission to the Naval Academy because going there would have interfered with his plan to learn international business. What international-business purpose was served by applying to the Naval Academy is a part of Kiyosaki’s tangled web that I have no clue about.
In his 1993 book …Don’t Go To School?, he said, “In 1964, I received two nominations: one to the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy in Kings Point, NY, another to the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, MD. I accepted the Kings Point nomination.”
I am a West Point graduate, so I am familiar with the terminology and procedure a**ociated with admission to service academies. Kiyosaki says he received two “nominations.” Admission to the U.S. Naval Academy, like admission to my alma mater, the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, is a multi-step process.
The first step is to obtain a nomination from a Congressman or Senator. A nomination is not an admission. Rather it just lets you begin the rest of the application process. Furthermore, there are two kinds of nomination: principal and alternate. I got a principal nomination from Congressman Cahill. That meant that I would be admitted if I pa**ed the three categories of criteria. Those who receive alternate nominations, which are ranked first, second, third, fourth, and so forth, only get admitted if the principal and alternates above them fail to gain admission. The detailed facts about Kiyosaki’s nomination are almost certainly listed in his hometown newspaper in late 1964.
During the post-nomination application process, you undergo an extensive physical exam more demanding than to enlist in the military—and a physical aptitude test of your athletic ability. I had to go to Fort Dix, NJ for those two tests. Simultaneously, you send your high school transcript and test scores to the service academy and they decide whether you meet their standards academically. If you pa** all three tests, and you were the principal nominee, you get an appointment from the President of the United States. That means you are admitted.
Kiyosaki seems to imply that he was admitted to the Naval Academy, but turned it down. However, the use of the word “nomination” and the admission to People seem to indicate that he was, in fact, never accepted by the Naval Academy and therefore could not have chosen the Merchant Marine Academy over the Naval Academy.
A midshipman at Kiyosaki’s alma mater said that in Kiyosaki’s 5th book, he does not mention the Merchant Marine Academy by name. Rather he says only that he went to “the military academy in New York.” You gotta be kidding me! To 99% of the people, “the military academy in New York” is West Point. If his book Rich Dad Poor Dad is any indication, Kiyosaki would have lasted about two weeks at West Point before they threw him out for violating the cadet honor code. For chrissake, he’s even lying about having lived by the West Point honor code for four years.
Pilot
Taking an indirect and barely relevant route to an educational goal is a recurring theme in Kiyosaki's book. He seems to have a fascination with extremely roundabout, “reverse psychology” methods of teaching or learning. Kiyosaki states that he became a U.S. Marine Corps helicopter pilot so he could learn how to lead men. Pilots fly helicopters. A pilot may lead his copilot and door gunner, but no one else. Furthermore, the actions of a copilot and door gunner are largely standard operating procedure. They do not need to be led much. And if they did, the pilot would be in a poor position to lead them because flying a helicopter is a task that consumes 100% of your attention. Only if he stayed in the service for many years would a pilot be put in charge of a group of helicopters and then be a leadership position. Kiyosaki did not stay in the military. If you want to lead men in the military, you become a platoon leader and company commander.
A Marine pilot wrote to tell me that pilots do lead. I surmise that he meant when they were on the ground. That is probably correct. I rode in a lot of helicopters in Vietnam. I never saw the pilots lead. They had their hands full with the flying. I never had any contact with them on the ground.
Also, in the 1993 book, he says, “…I…became a fighter pilot and went to Vietnam…and probably enjoyed combat more than most pilots ever do.” A Marine fighter is a fixed-wing jet aircraft that generally operates off an aircraft carrier. Helicopters sometimes operate off carriers, too, but no military person would call a helicopter a fighter. Then there is the question of why Kiyosaki’s flight training and pilot’s wings do not show up on his military records. The consensus among knowledgeable people seems to be that Kiyosaki was probably a pilot, although some find the omission of flight training from his military records a bit odd.
A reader tells me a Marine helicopter friend of his met Kiyosaki. He tried to talk pilot stuff but Kiyosaki was unable to talk like a pilot.
“…never returned to my ship”
The 1993 book contains a very strange discussion. He says that he found a “little boy in my helicopter one day and “had the right, if not the duty, to shoot and kill him on the spot. This was the code of war we were taught as military officers.”
I am aware of no such right, duty, or “Code of War.” The Geneva Convention, to which the U.S. is a signatory, prohibits shooting a surrendering enemy soldier, as does the U.S. Uniform Code of Military Justice. Furthermore, a child would generally not be considered a soldier at all. To be sure, in Vietnam, children sometimes attacked U.S. soldiers with deadly weapons like mines, grenades, or guns. They brazenly stole from our moving vehicles—engineer stakes and gas cans—when we were in convoy, because they knew we would not harm them. I suspect a Vietnamese child in a helicopter would be trying to steal something—although he could be just fascinated by the aircraft like any kid.
Kiyosaki then melodramatically describes that after aiming and starting to pull the trigger, that he “put my gun away that day forever. I committed myself to finding new ways of doing things, instead of simply responding to what I’d been told to do by a person who supposedly had more authority than I.”
In the absence of an immediate threat from the boy—and he mentions no such threat—shooting the boy would be murder, not obedience to any U.S. military authority. Indeed, it would be gross disobedience.
The “supposedly had more authority” line is rather weird for a U.S. Marine officer. A member of the U.S. military is required to carry out all lawful orders of his superiors and there is no ambiguity about authority in the military.
He then says that three weeks later, when his aircraft carrier was in Hong Kong harbor, they were ordered to return to Vietnam. “We were about to engage in a large military operation near the DMZ…” It would be unlikely that the details of an operation would be revealed to military personnel who were ashore in Hong Kong. For secrecy, such details are usually only revealed once the ship leaves the shore.
“I never returned to my ship. To this day, that was one of the hardest decisions I had to make. I trembled for hours as I walked the streets with my mind screaming. I was called a coward and a traitor by some of the other pilots. I realized it was not the most honorable way to handle my refusal to fight any more. But I also knew I could not fight and kill simply because I had been ordered to do so. What the other pilots never understood was that for me to fly and kill again would have been the coward’s way out.”
Well! Now that’s a heck of a pa**age! Not returning to your ship when ordered to do so is desertion. One of my readers said Kiyosaki appeared to be trying to claim that he was a “conscientious deserter”—a new phrase.
I hesitate to say that he is confessing to that. It is one of the most serious crimes in the military. But it is hard to find any other explanation in this pa**age. The fact that his peers called him a coward and a traitor suggests that explanation or possibly turning into a conscientious objector while on the streets of Hong Kong. I requested his military records from the National Archives.
Kiyosaki military records
Robert Toru Kiyosaki was a US Naval Reserve officer from 6/4/69 to 10/3/70 reaching the rank of lieutenant j.g. Then he switched to the Marine Corps from 10/4/70 to 6/30/74 and was honorably discharged as a first lieutenant.
He was awarded an air medal for “courage and devotion to duty in the face of hazardous flying conditions” during combat support missions in Vietnam from 6/16/72 to 10/19/72, as well as several other medals which appear to be merely for being in the military or being in Vietnam. I have several such medals myself. For example, you get the Vietnam Service Medal for setting foot in the country. Kiyosaki has that with 2 Bronze Battle Stars. Bronze battle stars are for being in country during certain campaign time periods.
Also, civilians should know that all military medals have criteria and citations that make them sound very heroic. In fact, the vast majority of medals with subjective criteria are probably awarded to guys who did little more than serve at a particular place and time. For example, in 1965, when I was a West Point cadet, I and everyone else in the military at the time was suddenly awarded the National Defense Service medal. We called it the “I was alive in ’65” medal. We also had a joke about its colors: “The red is for the blood we never shed. The blue is for the oceans we never crossed and the yellow is the reason why.”
A Vietnam-era Marine fighter pilot told me an air medal means twenty missions (flights) in a combat area (like the entire country of Vietnam and environs) Really!? Then I think the Army owes me an air medal or two. My jobs in Vietnam required me to travel around to widely scattered bases—which I did in Hueys, Loches, Chinooks, and C-130’s. It never occurred to me that I should get a medal for it and I will not be trying to get any now.
The “military education” portion of his record lists only “Fwd. Air Control Airborne Course, Officer Fam. Course, and Leadership Training.” None of those sound like pilot school, but he had to have been in the air in some capacity to get an air medal (any crew member of an aircraft can get an Air Medal). The air medal citation describes him as a “Naval Aviator with Marine Medium Helicopter Squadron 164.” “Naval Aviator” means he was a pilot according to a Marine major who is a pilot. However, it seems odd for a person to graduate from military pilot training, which takes multiple, lengthy courses and for their military record not to show that training.
Also, if Kiyosaki was a pilot, his list of awards and decorations should include an “Aviator’s Badge,” commonly known as a pilot’s wings. His list does not include any wings.
The air medal citation says “The Numeral ‘1’ to represent One Strike/Flight Award is authorized.” The meaning of this varied from unit to unit and time to time. In some units, it could be merely for a guy taking a ride in an aircraft with minimal duties, especially in 1972. Almost all U.S. military personnel were removed from Vietnam on 3/28/73. The last major combat units left in the summer of 1972. Kiyosaki’s Air Medal was for the period June to October, 1972. The Air Medal Citation was signed by Louis H. Wilson, Lieutenant General, U.S. Marine Corps, Commanding General, Fleet Marine Force, Pacific. Perhaps he or a member of his staff at that time could clarify what this medal really involved.
His place of separation was “Kaneone Bay, HI.” I think they mean Kaneohe.
I need some help understanding his chronological record of duty a**ignments—too many cryptic abbreviations. Perhaps veterans of the Navy or Marines can help translate this or tell me where to find an explanation of the abbreviations. Here is what they sent me: From To Unit
10/4/70 4/30/71 MATSG, NABTC, NAS, PNC, A, FLF
5/12/71 7/14/71 HML-267, MAG-56, 3dMAW MCB CamPen
7/15/71 1/15/72 710715 REDSIG to HML-267M 3DMAW MCB CAMPEN CALIF 920 CG 3DMAW MSG 082245Z JUL 7
1/22/72 3/30/72 HML-367 MAG 36 1st MAW FPO SFRAN 96602
3/31/72 4/19/72 HMM-164, MAG-36, 1st MAW FPO SFRAN 96602
4/20/72 5/10/72 HML-367 MAG-36 1st MAW FMF Pac FPO SFRAN 96602
5/23/72 1/3/73 HMM-164, MAG-36, 1st MAW, FMF Pac FPO SFRAN
2/6/73 5/30/74 H&MS-24, MAG-24, 1st MarBde, FMF
7/1/74 6/30/74 MCPFAA, KSC, MO ASL
Dis
I suspect I can figure out some of the abbreviations:
NABTC = Naval Aviators Basic Training Course
PNC = Pensacola, FL
NAS = Naval Air Station
MAG = Military Aircraft Group
MAW = Marine Aircraft Wing
FMF = Fleet Marine Force
HML and HMM designate helicopter squadrons
CamPen = Camp Pendleton
REDSIG = redesignated
Calif = California
CG = commanding general
Z = zulu indicating a time zone
FPO SFRAN 96602 = Fleet Post Office San Francisco ZIP code 96602 (Mailing address for Vietnam)
pac = Pacific
MarBde = Marine Brigade
Dis = discharged
If you can confirm any of these and/or help me with the others, I would appreciate it. Also, persons who served in similar units can read between the lines and interpret this record. I hope I hear from such persons. I was in Vietnam in 1969 and 1970, but in the Army. I know little about the Marine Corps.
If NABTC means Naval Aviators Basic Training Course, why would it not be on his military education? Maybe because he was a**igned there, but did not graduate.
A combat pilot reader sent me the following:
At this point, I think he was [a helicopter pilot], but I would like to see some definitive proof. HML means helicopter Marine light. HML-267 was a training squadron in 1971. In 1972, HMM-164 flew CH-46D Sea Knights, CH-53D, and UH-1E. In 1972, HML-367 flew UH-1E, LPD-9, AH-1G, and AH-1J aircraft. H&MS is a Headquarters and Maintenance Squadron. In 1972, HMM-164 was on board the USS Okinawa, a helicopter carrier.
A recent Naval Academy grad also thinks he must have been a pilot because of the way the Marines are organized and Kiyosaki’s a**ignments.
We still are not sure. It would take access to some records other than the ones I got through the Freedom of Information Act. I am a little surprised that I have not heard from anyone in his unit.
Now that we know the name of the ship, we can obtain its log through the Freedom of Information Act, but I am not that interested because Kiyosaki came back off his conscientious deserter story in the Smart Money Magazine article. He now admits he was just one of hundreds of sailors and Marines who missed the boat when it unexpectedly left early.
His military records also contain the following “Combat History—Expeditions.” From To Details
5/24/72 5/25/72 OP SONG THANH 6-72
6/29/72 7/1/72 OP LOMSON 72 Phase-1 RVN This was a major operation by the South Vietnamese military with some U.S. air power support.
7/11/72 7/12/72 OP LOMSON 72 Phase-2 RVN This was a major operation by the South Vietnamese military with some U.S. air power support.
7/11/72 7/12/72 OP SONG THAN 9A-72 RVN
7/24/72 8/29/72 Participated in special search and rescue operations with 31st MAU in the contiguous waters of RVN
9/29/72 10/21/72 Participated in special search and rescue operations with 31st MAU in the contiguous waters of RVN
OP = Operation?
RVN = Republic of Vietnam
contiguous waters of RVN = ocean off the coast
SONG THANH and LOMSON = probably Vietnamese villages or provinces
The Marines often listed combat expeditions on a serviceman’s military record even though he had nothing to do directly with the operation in question. It may only mean that some other members of his unit were involved. These combat expeditions could appear on your record even if you were on R&R in Hawaii during the whole operation.
I would not have looked into his military records at all were it not for the strange story about not shooting a boy and refusing to return to his ship. Now I am trying to figure out whether his accounts in his books jibe with his military records. My preliminary conclusion is that the whole melodramatic story of not going back to the ship seems not to be supported by his military records. Based on his military education records, he appears to be an air crew member, not a pilot, although his rank and a**ignment to helicopter units suggests he was, indeed, a pilot. He also appears to have had a Vietnam tour, but without either distinction or misconduct. His decorations, including the air medal, are all analogous to the gold stars kids get in school for attendance. That is, they are for being somewhere or for being somewhere for a certain period of time.
Here’s is an email I got from a former Marine:
I couldn’t help but notice that he was attached to H&MS-24 (Headquarters and Maintenance Squadron-24) Marine Air Group 24, 1st Marine Brigade. MAG-24 was the entire air group with H&MS-24 as maintenance support efforts. They include support such as airframes, avionics, ordinance, which was my military occupational specialty (#6541). [Kiyosaki] also said that he was 1st Marine Brigade. Brigade was ground side. Grunts, infantry, artillery. There is no way for him to have been both airwing and ground at the same time without changing M.O.S. [Reed note: I do not know Marine procedures during Vietnam, but Kiyosaki seems to have been trained as a forward observer to direct artillery and/or air support at ground targets. Forward observers are typically attached to infantry or artillery units.] A Marine major said this M.O.S. is for an enlisted man and that he did not believe the man’s comments would apply to officers.
The making of a financial genius
There are probably many ways to became a financial genius, but Kiyosaki has certainly chosen an unlikely route:
• flunked sophomore year of high school and had to repeat
• U.S. Merchant Marine Academy
• 3rd mate oil tanker (or was it “Love Boat” type cruise ship?)
• Marine helicopter pilot (or was it fighters?)
• refused to return to ship when it was ordered to return to combat (or just missed the boat)
• Xerox salesman
• failed businessman (nylon surfer wallets)
• failed businessman (rock and roll memorabilia)
• failed author (1993 book If You Want to Be Rich & Happy, Don’t Go To School?)
• failed MBA student
• homeless person
• bankruptcy (or maybe not)
Kiyosaki tries to make a virtue from all his failures and false starts—saying that’s how you learn and you have to get back up and all that. Fine. But couldn’t we see a little more actual success after all these great lessons were learned before we “run away to join your circus?” And how did all this screwed-up stuff happen to a guy who had the benefit of “Rich Dad’s” brilliant wisdom back at age nine? If “Rich Dad” is really a completely phony story, how much of this other stuff can we believe?
What is his background really? I am impressed by Xerox salesmen as a general rule, but that aspect of his background sure stands out from the rest. Did he really do that? He claims he was a “top-five” guy at Xerox—one of the nation’s most well-managed companies at the time. Really? And this after being something like a bottom-five guy everywhere else!
College grad?
I was so skeptical that a college graduate could have written this book that I took the unusual step of calling his college to confirm that he really attended and graduated. He did. If I were a Merchant Marine Academy graduate, I would request that they do a recount of Kiyosaki’s college grades. This book is an embarra**ment to the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy and its midshipmen and alumni.
I have been disappointed by the response from USMMA people to this analysis. Two contacted me nit picking my facts about their alma mater. An entering freshman was “deeply offended” and claimed to have “rejected” Annapolis by withdrawing her application there. [The way you truly reject a major service academy is by receiving a fat acceptance envelope and sending in the little “no thanks” RSVP card. The only reason to withdraw your application before it has been acted upon is to avoid the embarra**ment of being rejected.] None of the three expressed the slightest displeasure with Kiyosaki’s many dishonest statements. Only one USMMA grad wrote in support of my analysis, although they no doubt have a number of accountants, attorneys, and stock brokers among them. One allowed that Kiyosaki’s book was possibly “oversimplified.” The one who supported my analysis did not answer my request to quote him by name. I received a supportive email from a current midshipman there. But he also told me Kiyosaki made a speech there around the beginning of 2003. That’s unfortunate. It proves my point that USMMA is apparently so starved for attention that they will take it any way they have to get it.
I would have expected an expression of embarra**ment from them about Kiyosaki’s book. The fact that Kiyosaki graduated from USMMA and the defensive response from the three has lowered my previously high opinion of that school by a couple of notches. All colleges graduate the occasional mistake. Harvard Medical School produced Dr. Andrew Weil. But quality colleges do not remain silent when one of their mistakes achieves prominence in a way that conflicts with what they teach. I understand some Harvard Medical School people have denounced Dr. Weil’s teachings.
I would not have even mentioned where Kiyosaki went to college had it not been for his international business bull. But now I am increasingly disturbed by the response of the USMMA community. With each pa**ing month that they silently accept the attention that Kiyosaki brings them with his outrageous book, they, as a group, implicitly accept its contents as representing what they are about.
I have heard from two USMMA guys who generally agreed with my analysis. One noted that USMMA grads have an obligation to stay in the merchant marine for a certain amount of time, because taxpayers pay for their education, but that serving in the military either reduces or eliminates the remainder of that obligation. Maybe getting rid of that obligation, not “learning how to lead men,” was Kiyosaki’s real motive for joining the Marines.
Archie Bunker on Wealth
Archie Bunker on Wealth would be a more accurate title. The overall high-school-dropout tone of the book is likely the influence of “rich dad.” To be sure, “rich dad” is street smart and has entrepreneur’s genes and energy. But like most high-school dropouts, “rich dad” has not done his homework on many of the opinions he pa**ed on to Kiyosaki. For example, Kiyosaki says, “Prices go up because of greed and fear caused by ignorance.” In fact, prices are determined by supply and demand, as anyone who is reasonably well read knows.
Real estate expert?
On pages 106 and 107, he brags of taking back $190,000 worth of 30-year notes at 10%. Competent note investors would never agree to such long terms. One expert I consulted called it a “nutty note.” I asked Bill Mencarow, owner of Paper Source if he knows of any note investors who routinely take back 30-year notes. He said, “To paraphrase Eisenhower speaking about Nixon’s vice-presidential accomplishments, give me a week and I might think of one.” Mencarow further states that 30-year self-amortizing notes, at best, would sell at about a 50% discount for cash. He actually asked around for me and found three guys who would pay only $90,000 to $120,000 for Kiyosaki's “$190,000” face-value notes. If the notes are interest-only with a balloon of $190,000 at the end of the 30 years, they would sell for even less. Trading $190,000 worth of real estate for paper that is only worth $90,000 to $120,000 does not get you a financial genius secret decoder ring.
Kiyosaki says “much of [the $19,000 a year interest income is] sheltered through our private corporation.” In fact, corporations do not shelter income. The corporation’s income is taxed when received at corporate tax rates. When that income is subsequently distributed to Kiyosaki, it will be taxed again at individual rates. Real estate investors generally do not incorporate. Accountant Bob Balda**ari of McLean, VA says he and his colleagues almost never advise a small real-estate investor to incorporate because the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages.
Smart note investors generally buy notes through their pension fund, which is not a corporation. Apparently Kiyosaki is not a smart note investor.
He says he hopes they never pay off the $190,000 because he would have to pay taxes on the principal and because $19,000 paid over 30 years is $500,000. In fact, the taxes must be paid whenever any principal or interest payment is made, partial or complete payoff. There is no way to avoid paying the taxes. And the only way to defer paying the taxes is to defer receiving the income, which is cutting off your income to spite the IRS.
If he did these deals, which involve buying and selling six houses, in a short enough period of time, he would likely be considered a dealer for tax purposes. Dealers are not allowed to use installment-sale treatment. That means he has to pay all the tax on the gain with the next quarterly income tax return after the closing, even though he has not received a penny of principal from the deal.
If the borrowers literally never paid the $190,000 off, Kiyosaki would be out $190,000. Wanting to lose $190,000 is insane. Measuring your return on a 30-year note by multiplying the annual interest by the term of the loan is extremely misleading. The only way to measure payments received over a period of years is in terms of interest rate or present value. Bragging about cumulative interest paid on a 30-year note indicates that either Kiyosaki does not understand the first thing about finance, or he thinks you don't.
A reader and I got into a dialogue about these notes and I came to the conclusion that the typical Kiyosaki follower literally does not know the first thing about finance. The people that guys like Kiyosaki and Sheets target are sort of the Thomson’s gazelles of real estate—people who are the weakest and most vulnerable because of their ignorance of real-estate-investment principles. Click here for a quick overview of some basic principles.
On page 108, Kiyosaki brags that “$190,000 was created in the a**et column and no taxes were paid.” Not paying taxes in this case is hardly an accomplishment. The reason he has not yet paid any taxes is he has not received any money. He will start paying taxes the moment he receives any interest or principal payments on the $190,000.
On page 24, Kiyosaki speaks of “building a track [sic] of houses.” This does not demonstrate the command of real-estate terminology one would expect of a real-estate expert. (He means “tract.”)
Kiyosaki recommends various financial books, but only two real estate books: Donald Trump’s Art of the Deal and Robert Allen’s Creating Wealth. I think it’s safe to say that no other experienced real-estate investor in history ever gave a list of recommended books that included only those two. Trump is a publicity-hungry, New York City high-rise developer whose book is only somewhat useful to the typical real-estate investor. It would rank very low on most lists aimed at individual investors. For a discussion of Allen, see the guru rating page of my Web site.
There is a lot of incorrect conventional wisdom in this book. Kiyosaki book The whole truth about the subject in question
The rich get richer. Sometimes, they get poorer.
It’s not how much money you make, it’s how much money you keep. The more you make, the more you keep.
By working harder, you simply increase the amount of taxes taken by the government. Working harder increases both your before-tax income and your after-tax income, as well your tax liability. What Kiyosaki says would only be true if the tax rate were 100%, which it never is.
An intelligent person hires people who are more intelligent than they are. As a general rule, people who are smarter than you will not apply to work for you until you have reached a rather high level of success.
On 8/21/00, the comic strip “Dilbert” made fun of this
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I DONT CARE WHETHER HE FAKE OR NOT,THAT BOOK"CASHFLOW QUADRANT WAS INSIGHTFUL.
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Interesting.......that was research on another tip( Damn!!! this is shit long ), makes u see that at
the end of the day its not what u read or how u grew up or whether something is fictional or nonfictional......what u become is ur own choice!!!
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hahaha! rip is on some other shit! :D
thats some mad research!
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That was a long but good read.Thanks Rip.I suppose it reminds us to never take anything as an unquestionable gospel truth.
Kiyosaki has become somewhat of a cult figure and so people are inclined to be less critical especially the majority of us who have limited financial skill.
Thanks.Cashflow Qaudrant was insightful but I also have to admit that it didn't provide sufficient strategies to pull urself up.Instead it just gave me a vision of where to go but without giving me the tools of how to get there which is the important bit.
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u thought u was gon get a step by step guide to getting rich! :D
kiyosaki never said he gon make u rich! 8O he givin u a head start! thats all!
u f***ing spoilt brat! take the concepts and seek more knowledge and work ur way up!!!!!!!!
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u thought u was gon get a step by step guide to getting rich! :D
kiyosaki never said he gon make u rich! 8O he givin u a head start! thats all!
u f***ing spoilt brat! take the concepts and seek more knowledge and work ur way up!!!!!!!!
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For Real.....These punks need to open their minds if they wana learn, they know they in the presence of greatness but they acting like they dont know!!! Act like u know motherfukcers!!!
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VEXER THIS MORE LIKE IT... I FEEL U DID NOT WASTE ANY ENERGY... FOR THT MUCH RESPECT....
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VEXER THIS MORE LIKE IT... I FEEL U DID NOT WASTE ANY ENERGY... FOR THT MUCH RESPECT....
oh snap! i see an essay comin!!!!! :lol:
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u thought u was gon get a step by step guide to getting rich! :D
kiyosaki never said he gon make u rich! 8O he givin u a head start! thats all!
u f***ing spoilt brat! take the concepts and seek more knowledge and work ur way up!!!!!!!!
Dude, I never expected Kiyosaki to hand me riches on a platter. I was just stating what I thought were the drawbacks in his books.
Cash, I've got nothing against u personally but sometimes I think you must pause a while before u post ur vituperations here bcoz u clearly didn't comprehend what I said and as a result u drew conclusions that don't necessarily follow from what I actually said.
Same goes 4 Zoolooo, please think b4 u echo and a**ociate urself with someone else's vituperations.
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[
quote="Vexer"]u thought u was gon get a step by step guide to getting rich! :D
kiyosaki never said he gon make u rich! 8O he givin u a head start! thats all!
u f***ing spoilt brat! take the concepts and seek more knowledge and work ur way up!!!!!!!!
Dude, I never expected Kiyosaki to hand me riches on a platter. I was just stating what I thought were the drawbacks in his books.
Cash, I've got nothing against u personally but sometimes I think you must pause a while before u post ur vituperations here bcoz u clearly didn't comprehend what I said and as a result u drew conclusions that don't necessarily follow from what I actually said.
Same goes 4 Zoolooo, please think b4 u echo and a**ociate urself with someone else's vituperations.
[/quote][/list]
N!gga please....dont try to come off as a smart a**, telling me i need to think....what i echo is a reflection of the direct opposite of the claims u make acting like u the most informed and knowledgable cat around....u try too hard to explain things u cant even contemplate and when u do contemplate 'em u come up with nothing....u the type that gets taught but never learns!!!
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N!gga please....dont try to come off as a smart a**, telling me i need to think....what i echo is a reflection of the direct opposite of the claims u make acting like u the most informed and knowledgable cat around....u try too hard to explain things u cant even contemplate and when u do contemplate 'em u come up with nothing....u the type that gets taught but never learns!!!
Here are the various meanings of the word "echo"-reverberation, resonance, repeat, boom, ricochet, sound coming back.
So it appears ur understanding of the word "echo" is at best erroneous and at worst non-existent.
I therefore repeat, before u echo someone else's vituperations as well as b4 posting ur own pliz think.
Pliz desist from making vague and general statements that u cannot substantiate like : "acting like u the most informed and knowledgable cat around...u try too hard to explain things u cant even contemplate and when u do contemplate 'em u come up with nothing....u the type that gets taught but never learns".
Where the f*** is the basis for this. If I tried to act like I was the "most knowledgeable cat around" (whatever that means), I would have never posted this topic bcoz I actually admit being ignorant about something in this topic.
So I've never portrayed myself as "the most knowledgeable person". There are things which I do know and things which I don't.
If I don't know something I say it so from ur statement it seems like u actually didn't think AGAIN.
This topic wouldn't exist if I didn't acknowledge that there are some things I don't know that I still have to learn and for me that's not a weakness.
Not to say I'm a genius but like Pac said "Even a genius asks questions" that's how u keep learning and improving ur life.
Just pause and think a little b4 u let off coz it seems like u never even stop to aim.
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[q
uote="Vexer"] N!gga please....dont try to come off as a smart a**, telling me i need to think....what i echo is a reflection of the direct opposite of the claims u make acting like u the most informed and knowledgable cat around....u try too hard to explain things u cant even contemplate and when u do contemplate 'em u come up with nothing....u the type that gets taught but never learns!!!
Here are the various meanings of the word "echo"-reverberation, resonance, repeat, boom, ricochet, sound coming back.
So it appears ur understanding of the word "echo" is at best erroneous and at worst non-existent.
I therefore repeat, before u echo someone else's vituperations as well as b4 posting ur own pliz think.
Pliz desist from making vague and general statements that u cannot substantiate like : "acting like u the most informed and knowledgable cat around...u try too hard to explain things u cant even contemplate and when u do contemplate 'em u come up with nothing....u the type that gets taught but never learns".
Where the f*** is the basis for this. If I tried to act like I was the "most knowledgeable cat around" (whatever that means), I would have never posted this topic bcoz I actually admit being ignorant about something in this topic.
So I've never portrayed myself as "the most knowledgeable person". There are things which I do know and things which I don't.
If I don't know something I say it so from ur statement it seems like u actually didn't think AGAIN.
This topic wouldn't exist if I didn't acknowledge that there are some things I don't know that I still have to learn and for me that's not a weakness.
Not to say I'm a genius but like Pac said "Even a genius asks questions" that's how u keep learning and improving ur life.
Just pause and think a little b4 u let off coz it seems like u never even stop to aim.
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hahahah...u funny man, me using the word echo??? did u not get what i meant...? ohh u did but u just proved that u think u so knowledgable....this topic was inspired by we and u know it.....now sit back and just hold ur breath motherfukcer!!!
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[quote="zoolooo1hahahah...u funny man, me using the word echo??? did u not get what i meant...? ohh u did but u just proved that u think u so knowledgable....this topic was inspired by we and u know it.....now sit back and just hold ur breath motherfukcer!!![/quote]
Dude, if I say something then I justify it.Period.
I believe I justified my point being u don't think b4 u post.
Ur statements are just weak and defensive.
This topic was inspired by my own struggles and nothing else.
At the end of the day by saying I must "sit back and just hold my breath" u prove why I call u the Hip-Hop speculator.
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[quote="zoolooo1hahahah...u funny man, me using the word echo??? did u not get what i meant...? ohh u did but u just proved that u think u so knowledgable....this topic was inspired by we and u know it.....now sit back and just hold ur breath motherfukcer!!!
Dude, if I say something then I justify it.Period.
I believe I justified my point being u don't think b4 u post.
Ur statements are just weak and defensive.
This topic was inspired by my own struggles and nothing else.
At the end of the day by saying I must "sit back and just hold my breath" u prove why I call u the Hip-Hop speculator.
[/quote][/list]
Proved ur point...? Ur statements r weak and defensive.......whos being defensive now...? Sit back and hold ur breath...? i aint saying wait for anything u dumb fukc...im saying shut the fukc up cos ur comments are filled with dreams and perceptions and speculations....u r a fan so know ur place!!!
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Proved ur point...? Ur statements r weak and defensive.......whos being defensive now...? Sit back and hold ur breath...? i aint saying wait for anything u dumb fukc...im saying shut the fukc up cos ur comments are filled with dreams and perceptions and speculations....u r a fan so know ur place!!!
Ur ego clearly knows no bounds. I'm definetely a fan but not yours.
It seems like the bullshit hierachies u've constructed in ur mind are part of the reason ur ego is out of control.
U think being an artist makes u "better" than the fans. Looks like u self-worth is built around a pack of lies which explains why u're so distorted.
Like I said Mr Speculator come back with something concrete right now u're just running the streets with a dream which is fine but don't make shit sound different from what it actually is.
Shit's not gonna happen just bcoz u speak it.Appreciate that otherwise u just become detached from reality and u begin to sound like a desperate industry zealot.
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Proved ur point...? Ur statements r weak and defensive.......whos being defensive now...? Sit back and hold ur breath...? i aint saying wait for anything u dumb fukc...im saying shut the fukc up cos ur comments are filled with dreams and perceptions and speculations....u r a fan so know ur place!!!
Ur ego clearly knows no bounds. I'm definetely a fan but not yours.
It seems like the bullshit hierachies u've constructed in ur mind are part of the reason ur ego is out of control.
U think being an artist makes u "better" than the fans. Looks like u self-worth is built around a pack of lies which explains why u're so distorted.
Like I said Mr Speculator come back with something concrete right now u're just running the streets with a dream which is fine but don't make shit sound different from what it actually is.
Shit's not gonna happen just bcoz u speak it.Appreciate that otherwise u just become detached from reality and u begin to sound like a desperate industry zealot.
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U r my fan cause i know u "gona" love my shit....(Mr Speculator), im saying "gona" cos u dont know my shit but that dont mean i aint great....... cos the people who know my shit know im great!!! I aint speculating just point out the fact that u dont know my sh!t and u will....thats not a speculation now is it??? i make plans and set goals that i achieve all the time...rather say u hope i can reach my goals cos when i do u will learn a lot from me being in a powerful position and spreading the knowlegde that i have!!! i will reach my ultimate goal ...that is to live my dream!!!.....i aint making speculations n!gga, im making moves that r gettin me closer to my goals and im soon to live my dreams!!! I walk and talk the talk playa....i aint greater than my fans...but theyve got a lot to learn from me...and the only way to learn is to listen and learn from people who r more insightful, positive, visionary, pa**ionate and with leadership qualities than u do!!! Therefore.....know ur place!!! u dont get anything do u!!! Maybe u should check ur ego levels....but ego is good as long as it doesnt make u feel like u greater than anybody else....and i dont, my intensions are good!!!
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i will reach my ultimate goal.......
That right there is speculation. You BELIEVE its gonna happen but the FACT is it hasn't.
Therefore there are 2 possibilities: It might happen or it might not.
Deal with it.U can't run away from simple facts.
That's why I call u the Hip-Hop Speculator. :roll: :roll:
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i will reach my ultimate goal.......
That right there is speculation. You BELIEVE its gonna happen but the FACT is it hasn't.
Therefore there are 2 possibilities: It might happen or it might not.
Deal with it.U can't run away from simple facts.
That's why I call u the Hip-Hop Speculator. :roll: :roll:
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So everyone who has dreams and goals to achieve is spaculating that they will achieve them...???? well...i choose to believe that theyre making moves and facing their realities and if they are facing their realities than theyre not speculating but making informed decisions to help them get to where they need to be.....i guess thats just the difference btween me and u!!!
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So everyone who has dreams and goals to achieve is spaculating that they will achieve them...???? well...i choose to believe that theyre making moves and facing their realities and if they are facing their realities than theyre not speculating but making informed decisions to help them get to where they need to be.....i guess thats just the difference btween me and u!!!
A dream is abstract. When u speculate u take an abstract thought and try to apply it to reality such that reality conforms to your abstract thought even tho U have no complete control over the outcome u seek to obtain in reality and matters are in-fact uncertain.
You then behave in a manner that doesn't take into account the uncertainty that exists.
That's what u're doing, u're taking ur dream and dealing with it like its reality when in-fact there's no gaurantee that reality will conform to ur dream but u keep talking like it will when in fact this is something uncertain.
That's a cla**ic case of speculation.
That's why u're the Hip-Hop speculator :lol: :lol: :lol:
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So everyone who has dreams and goals to achieve is spaculating that they will achieve them...???? well...i choose to believe that theyre making moves and facing their realities and if they are facing their realities than theyre not speculating but making informed decisions to help them get to where they need to be.....i guess thats just the difference btween me and u!!!
A dream is abstract. When u speculate u take an abstract thought and try to apply it to reality such that reality conforms to your abstract thought even tho U have no complete control over the outcome u seek to obtain in reality and matters are in-fact uncertain.
You then behave in a manner that doesn't take into account the uncertainty that exists.
That's what u're doing, u're taking ur dream and dealing with it like its reality when in-fact there's no gaurantee that reality will conform to ur dream but u keep talking like it will when in fact this is something uncertain.
That's a cla**ic case of speculation.
That's why u're the Hip-Hop speculator :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Everything uve just said is negative and irrelavent to the subject matter.....AGAIN, i dont make speculations i make informed decisions...right now u talking shit!!! Im already living my dream in my mental reality....its real and alive im just making sure it comes into my physical reality..therefore my dream is a reality....im certain that it will become a physical reality....just becos ur uncertain of ur capabilities and ur dreams dont think we all are dumb a**..... i know where im going and i know how to get there....and im gona get there!!! u learning arent u?hahahah....U too negative n!gga, uve learned nothing from Pac...so thats why u idolise him bcos to u his life is some kind of a fantasy....something out of this world..hahahaha.....u punk!!! U exactly the opposite of what Pac stood for.....prosperity! To prosper uve got to be positive no matter what...u very good at pointing out the negative things that r not even relavent and have nothing to do with teaching something but proving points!!! Fukc off u dickheard......u fukcing with an ertenal optimist and im gona shine...speculating again!!!...hahahah
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Im already living my dream in my mental reality....its real and alive im just making sure it comes into my physical reality..therefore my dream is a reality....im certain that it will become a physical reality
So just bcoz u believe it in ur mind its real?What's ur understanding of reality or do u just have ur own that just suits ur purposes?
Pac was against perpetrating and living fantasies which is exactly what u're about.
In his own words:
"U're livin fantasies Nigga/
I reject ur deposit
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Im already living my dream in my mental reality....its real and alive im just making sure it comes into my physical reality..therefore my dream is a reality....im certain that it will become a physical reality
So just bcoz u believe it in ur mind its real?What's ur understanding of reality or do u just have ur own that just suits ur purposes?
Pac was against perpetrating and living fantasies which is exactly what u're about.
In his own words:
"U're livin fantasies Nigga/
I reject ur deposit
:lol: :lol: :lol:[/quot
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For something to become a physical reality u gotta first believe it in
your mental reality, bcos if u dont....it will never become a physical reality!!! Im already living my dream...im where im supposed to be at the moment...my life is progress thats why i dont speculate! Stop quoting Pac....its getting old, anyway...much respect! I know im at a stage in my life where i know the difference btween a fantasy or a far fetched dream or an unrealistic goal etc...i hope u get the point...im making it already..its just a matter of time!!! Peace....
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Hope shit works out for you :lol: :lol: .
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ABC ran a 20/20 segment on May 19, 2006 where Kiyosaki was to advise 3 entrepreneurs on how to make money. They were given $1000 and 20 days to try and make the most money possible. At the end, after mediocre results, the contestants alleged that Kiyosaki never gave concrete advice. "All he [Kiyosaki] does is, I guess, open your mind .....
Ha! ha! pusssies :P
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Noticed a new book written by both Trump & Kiyosaki yesterday called "Why we want u to be rich".
Looks like kiyosaki won't be stopping anytime soon despite the crit thrown his way.
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ABC ran a 20/20 segment on May 19, 2006 where Kiyosaki was to advise 3 entrepreneurs on how to make money. They were given $1000 and 20 days to try and make the most money possible. At the end, after mediocre results, the contestants alleged that Kiyosaki never gave concrete advice. "All he [Kiyosaki] does is, I guess, open your mind .....
Ha! ha! pusssies :P
hahaha!!!!!! do people actually think u can get a step by step guide to gettin rich! cmon!
use the knowledge idiots! theres no easy glomail way of gettin that paper!!!! hahahaha :lol:
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everything basically boils down to the numbers and that numbers don't lie (Except in the case of Enron that is) :lol: .
Yo Vexer, I remember you sayin we should check out Enron, The Smartest Guys in the Room. Finally did. Damn. 8O I thought I did but had no idea just how really hectic that story was. Thanks bra. Sh!t was on another level, the power in Cali, the workers' retirement funds. Never ending increase on share price and every "expert" not asking "why". Hectic. It all actaully happened in reality but it seems like a movie. You could spend your whole fragment of time on Earth doing somethin that means nothing in the space of 3 months...when the lights come on!
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I'm glad u checked that out.
Makes u question the entire economic system.What is the ultimate logic behind Capitalism and where the f*** r we going.
The "markets" are just a f***in' facade coz stock prices can be manipulated
f*** u can't even trust Fortune Magazine.Ain't that some shit.
Those guys fooled everyone.At the end of the day I realised the only way to be safe in life is to be at the top of the stack where u actually make all the decisions.
Remember how those guys told their employees to invest their retirement funds in Enron Stock knowing full well it was just a bubble waiting to burst.
How evil is that shit.Dude's even fooled the Reserve Bank Govenor and gave him an Enron "Award".
At the end of the day that documentary helped me realise some important truths about Capitalism.
It also completely destroys the myth of White Corporate responsibility.
If u're despondent about black Corporate greed or if u're fond of criticising black people for their Corporate ineptitude then I'd advise u to watch that documentary.
Most "greedy" black execs have got nothing on those Enron catz.
I still marvel at the magic of "mark to market accounting".
Remember how it "produced" profit out of a derilict power station?
That shit they did in California was plain evil as well.
So much to say.
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Sorry vexer im a bit off-topic here. :BUT I THINK IT RELATES TO THIS THREAD.
PHUTUMA NATHI:ARE THESE GUYZ STILL TRADING??? :evil: http://www.africasgateway.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=14905
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Thanks for the link Rip.
I wonder where the world is going.Sometimes the stock market seems like a lottery.
Altho its not entirely true that its like a lottery, but it looks like its driven by more than just economic fundamentals.
I wonder whether Capitalism will collapse at some point.I wonder what's beyond Capitalism.