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Other => Politics => Topic started by: The Angry Hand of God on February 16, 2009, 11:29:47 AM
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So, what do you guys think?
In my opinion this is probably the most comprehensive and well though about out of all the parties.
If we were a real democracy based on political knowledge rather than emotion and race I have no doubt the DA would have taken this.
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What did they say, i missed theirs...only caught the ACDP's...
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The D.A may have a sound manifesto which can compete in modern politics. but lets be real. the history of this state is that certain things will not fly with the ma** (whose vote u need to win any election and most are the poor and some middlecla**).
No trust in the white man period (maybe the next generation. but not this one).
affirmative action - is a huge one. and thats where the ANC gets a lot of its followers
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sad that the darkie stays loyal to the ANC no matter how corrupt or f***edup they are...
Change is due
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Im one of them. I dont see myself ever voting for the DA no matter what they say. If it predomintly has a white following and i happen to work predominately with white ppl and leave in city thats predominately run by white reacially intollerent people then with that logic its not a great idea to consider voting for them.
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Im one of them. I dont see myself ever voting for the DA no matter what they say. If it predomintly has a white following and i happen to work predominately with white ppl and leave in city thats predominately run by white reacially intollerent people then with that logic its not a great idea to consider voting for them.
Co- siggidy
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4 anc to be at the top they had to use force.if the is any party thats gonna take over ANC they gonna have to use force of sum' sort too.remeber da time zulu's had spear's up IFP was on da tip of everyone's tongue.now we living in da world of ideas and loyalty is nothing but a mind state.this people they think dey are loyal to ANC which means u can change their mind.i don't hav enuf time break this down but DA winning votes? maybe in the next 10 years
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So you'd rather stay getting f***ed for as long as the ANC feels like it, because you refuse to vote for a predominantly white party regardless of the fact that they have proposals that could change not only your life, but the lives of millions of the poorest people in the country, as opposed to the ANC's manifesto which is so blatantly opportunist and populous that even a fool can see that it will be impossible to implement it all.
That and their history of f***ing their electorate over should be enough for the right thinking person to make them sway, but not here I see. We're still too stuck on race politics, which is unfortunately a trademark of "democracies" all over Africa.
Maybe we should re-evaluate our loyalties for a second and use our brains to think rather than our hearts, or whatever the f*** it is some people use, because for me this makes no sense.
this is why I refuse to participate in your "democracy". Too many fools...
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So you'd rather stay getting f***ed for as long as the ANC feels like it, because you refuse to vote for a predominantly white party regardless of the fact that they have proposals that could change not only your life, but the lives of millions of the poorest people in the country, as opposed to the ANC's manifesto which is so blatantly opportunist and populous that even a fool can see that it will be impossible to implement it all.
That and their history of f***ing their electorate over should be enough for the right thinking person to make them sway, but not here I see. We're still too stuck on race politics, which is unfortunately a trademark of "democracies" all over Africa.
Maybe we should re-evaluate our loyalties for a second and use our brains to think rather than our hearts, or whatever the f*** it is some people use, because for me this makes no sense.
this is why I refuse to participate in your "democracy". Too many fools...
Im not voting for the ANC either. I doubt that most whites here think in favour of everyone. Thats the reality. I can never trust what they say. if the ANC with predomitely black folk can f*** us over i imagine the worst with a predomitely white party.
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So, what do you guys think?
In my opinion this is probably the most comprehensive and well though about out of all the parties.
If we were a real democracy based on political knowledge rather than emotion and race I have no doubt the DA would have taken this.
i confused with this statement Pyro, coz i read their manifesto and it aint different from any political party manifesto. The manifesto is well-written (perfect English) and that is the only thing that differentiates it from other parties manifesto. DA was and still is about 1. addressing white fears (crime, affarmative action etc), severely punish those who commit crime ( mostly poor and black), having flexible labour laws that would lure investors amongst other things. yes, they have changed their image but, in the main, they still represent the interests of the minority.
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So, what do you guys think?
In my opinion this is probably the most comprehensive and well though about out of all the parties.
If we were a real democracy based on political knowledge rather than emotion and race I have no doubt the DA would have taken this.
i confused with this statement Pyro, coz i read their manifesto and it aint different from any political party manifesto. The manifesto is well-written (perfect English) and that is the only thing that differentiates it from other parties manifesto. DA was and still is about 1. addressing white fears (crime, affarmative action etc), severely punish those who commit crime ( mostly poor and black), having flexible labour laws that would lure investors amongst other things. yes, they have changed their image but, in the main, they still represent the interests of the minority.
thats where the DA will stay loosing. cos its bad enough, completely doing away with it no way in hell they will win black voters with that
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Instead of just talking about how they're gonna save the world and eliminate poverty etc. I like the fact that they actually went and delineated step by step what their key focus areas are gonna be.
They went one step further and stated exactly how much they plan to spend on each aspect, whereas the ANC just dumped the usual bunch of election promises together and wrapped them in a new cloak. Besides saying exactly how much they plan to spend on each area, such as education and improvement of service delivery, they also had comprehensive plans for saving about 43 billion (not sure of the exact amount). They admit that it is an ambitious plan and that it will actually leave us with debt for a few years, but it is worth it, especially if you consider the strong emphasis on eliminating poverty through improved education, something the ANC isn't as focused on, since they want you to remain ignorant and fall for their promise of houses every time.
I'm not even gonna speak on COPE, becuase as yet Ihaven't seen any real emphasis on poverty alleviation from them besides the usual ex-ANC rhetoric.
I'm not delusional enough to even think that the DA is a perfect party, but when looking at what is on offer, you have to admit that thier deal looks like the one any normal businessman would take if this were a corporate deal and the company belonged to the poor and middle cla** people, rather than the elite.
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Instead of just talking about how they're gonna save the world and eliminate poverty etc. I like the fact that they actually went and delineated step by step what their key focus areas are gonna be.
They went one step further and stated exactly how much they plan to spend on each aspect, whereas the ANC just dumped the usual bunch of election promises together and wrapped them in a new cloak. Besides saying exactly how much they plan to spend on each area, such as education and improvement of service delivery, they also had comprehensive plans for saving about 43 billion (not sure of the exact amount). They admit that it is an ambitious plan and that it will actually leave us with debt for a few years, but it is worth it, especially if you consider the strong emphasis on eliminating poverty through improved education, something the ANC isn't as focused on, since they want you to remain ignorant and fall for their promise of houses every time.
I'm not even gonna speak on COPE, becuase as yet Ihaven't seen any real emphasis on poverty alleviation from them besides the usual ex-ANC rhetoric.
I'm not delusional enough to even think that the DA is a perfect party, but when looking at what is on offer, you have to admit that thier deal looks like the one any normal businessman would take if this were a corporate deal and the company belonged to the poor and middle cla** people, rather than the elite.
tru that man, this is the first timne i agree with you, it means you finally grew some brain......i havent seen the manifesto of the da but that bolded statement just gives me a reason to believe that they are a far more better party the ANC
CMON SOUTH AFRICA, CHANGE WE NEED NOW
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just a friendly remnder......Politicians will say or do just about anything in order for them to get vote including sucking d*ck so don't be fooled.
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Like I said, I don't believe everythign they said, but iut of all of them, they are the only ones who came with exact numbers and plans, instead of the broad "dick-sucking" that the rest especially the anc CAME WITH.
Wouldn't you choose the person who told you exactly how he plans to fix your broken house and how much it will cost, instead of the guy who makes big promises and has grand designs, but has no record of ever fixing any houses and has no real plan for fixing yours now?
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I don't know about you guys but I grew up in the apartheid era. I am not ready for a white goverment as yet. Not in my life time. ANC is f***ed up. I don't trust Zuma at all but ANC has done more for me that DA or any white person. The mistake we made as South Africans is to give ANC the 2 thirds. Give them precedence but not the 2 thirds. We need an opposition.
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eish, with Mandela endorsing ANC....that may have been the final nail in the coffin for some of these other parties (i.e. COPE)...we all knw how the gra** roots feel about madiba
@ ntsa ya teng - DA hasnt actually governed, so what have they done less than the ANC? i thnk they've FINALLY woken up to the fact that bein an opposition organisation that constantly barks and throws stones at the ANC, with no clear-cut solutions, has proved fruitless.
f*** a precedence, we need an alternative government...
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eish, with Mandela endorsing ANC....that may have been the final nail in the coffin for some of these other parties (i.e. COPE)...we all knw how the gra** roots feel about madiba
@ ntsa ya teng - DA hasnt actually governed, so what have they done less than the ANC? i thnk they've FINALLY woken up to the fact that bein an opposition organisation that constantly barks and throws stones at the ANC, with no clear-cut solutions, has proved fruitless.
f*** a precedence, we need an alternative government...
Cosign ..
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The way i see it. the cycle we are in will have to play itself out. clearly the ANC is loosing support. there isnt a credible black opposition (white parties will NEVER rule in this generation) COPE will fizzle out. a new party formed only on the bases of a different ideologies (not formed from struggle ideologies or as an answer to ANC's flaws) but proper governance. where service delivery is entrusted to professionals who know what they are doing not cos of thier struggle credentials. where support is based on what u want to do and more importantly HOW u will be doing it.
Not on populist notions, at the end of the day the ANC majority support comes from the lower cla**, but even there will grow impatient when thier councel men all get rich off money that should trikkle down to them.
its funny a friend of mine works for a governement department and this is what happens, certain contracts need to be awarded for jobs to get done(deliver a service) but her boss wont sign off on the budget because he wants to have a say on who gets awarded the contract. the stalemate is such that the job wont get done not unless he chooses who does it, but that isnt his job its her job.
anyway. i feel like its a situation that will have to play itself out and in the mean time wait for things to play out. cos there isnt anyone worth my vote. but still feel a responsibility to actually do something. but what?
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dope thread. 8)
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The way i see it. the cycle we are in will have to play itself out. clearly the ANC is loosing support. there isnt a credible black opposition (white parties will NEVER rule in this generation) COPE will fizzle out. a new party formed only on the bases of a different ideologies (not formed from struggle ideologies or as an answer to ANC's flaws) but proper governance. where service delivery is entrusted to professionals who know what they are doing not cos of thier struggle credentials. where support is based on what u want to do and more importantly HOW u will be doing it.
Not on populist notions, at the end of the day the ANC majority support comes from the lower cla**, but even there will grow impatient when thier councel men all get rich off money that should trikkle down to them.
its funny a friend of mine works for a governement department and this is what happens, certain contracts need to be awarded for jobs to get done(deliver a service) but her boss wont sign off on the budget because he wants to have a say on who gets awarded the contract. the stalemate is such that the job wont get done not unless he chooses who does it, but that isnt his job its her job.
anyway. i feel like its a situation that will have to play itself out and in the mean time wait for things to play out. cos there isnt anyone worth my vote. but still feel a responsibility to actually do something. but what?
Couldn't have said it batter ma nucca..............Currently.........I'm just lost.............Non deserve my X
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I don't know about you guys but I grew up in the apartheid era. I am not ready for a white goverment as yet. Not in my life time.
Yeah I get what you mean. I remember the first time we went to parliament. And we had to listen to all the reps. from all the different parties tell us whateva it is that they think we need to hear. And the only guy who really made any sense, was not from any of the big parties, but it was Pieter Mulder from FF+. And none of us ever dreamed that they'd be a day where we felt we had more in common with FF+ than any other party.
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Displays of wealth oust loyalty to principles
IT IS often said that tragic tales are not new. They have been told before, in our bedtime stories and when tales were told around the fire when we were young.
You will know by now that ANC spokesman and struggle veteran Carl Niehaus has, over the past few years, lied to the government, the church and the country in order to have and maintain an incredibly expensive lifestyle. According to the Mail & Guardian’s exposé on Friday, among other things Niehaus did the following:
· forged signatures while he was chief executive of the Gauteng Economic Development Agency before resigning in December 2005;
· borrowed money over a six-year period from some of the brightest stars of the ANC and business galaxy, much of which he has not paid back;
· asked to be connected to Brett Kebble because he was “desperate for financial help”;
· owed the Rhema Church more than R700,000 when he was asked to resign from his post as the church’s chief executive and spokesman by a full board meeting in 2004.
That was not the end of it. The man who not only bought a Porsche and other expensive cars — so he could keep up appearances — also lived in a R45,000-a-month house, despite being unable to pay the rent, the Sunday Times revealed yesterday.
The ANC knew about this but still appointed him its spokesman last year.
The story of Carl Niehaus is a tragedy foretold. Delivering the Nelson Mandela Memorial Lecture at the University of Witwatersrand on July 29 2006, the then president, Thabo Mbeki, spoke of the ‘‘demons embedded in our society”. His lecture is a towering achievement that should be read by everyone who wants to understand what the ANC is going through today.
I beg to borrow from him: “Thus, every day, and during every hour of our time beyond sleep, the demons embedded in our society, that stalk us at every minute, seem always to beckon each one of us towards a realisable dream and nightmare. With every pa**ing second, they advise, with rhythmic and hypnotic regularity — ‘Get rich! get rich! get rich!’
“And thus has it come about that many of us accept that our common natural instinct to escape from poverty is but the other side of the same coin, on whose reverse side are written the words — ‘At all costs, get rich!’
“In these circumstances, personal wealth, and the public communication of the message that we are people of wealth, becomes, at the same time, the means by which we communicate the message that we are worthy citizens of our community, the very exemplars of what defines the product of a liberated South Africa.
“This peculiar striving produces the particular result that manifestations of wealth, defined in specific ways, determine the individuality of each one of us who seeks to achieve happiness and self-fulfilment, given the liberty that the revolution of 1994 brought to all of us.
“In these circumstances, the meaning of freedom has come to be defined not by the seemingly ethereal and therefore intangible gift of liberty, but by the designer labels on the clothes we wear, the cars we drive, the spaciousness of our houses and our yards, their geographic location, the company we keep, and what we do as part of that company.
“In the event that what I have said has come across as a meaningless ramble, let me state what I have been saying more directly.
“It is perfectly obvious that many in our society, having absorbed the value system of the capitalist market, have come to the conclusion that, for them, personal success and fulfilment means personal enrichment at all costs, and the most theatrical and striking public display of that wealth.
“What this means is that many in our society have come to accept that what is socially correct is not the proverbial expression — ‘Manners maketh the man’ — but the notion that each one of us is as excellent a human being as our demonstrated wealth suggests!”
Mbeki then went on to quote George Soros: “Unsure of what they stand for, people increasingly rely on money as the criterion of value. What is more expensive is considered better … The cult of success has replaced a belief in principles. Society has lost its anchor…”
There are many Carl Niehauses in the ANC leadership. The party, unless it does something dramatic, is finished.
It will win this year’s election, but 2014? And after that?
It is over for the continent’s oldest liberation movement. It is now just another grubby political party.