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Hip Hop Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Omero's Daddy on April 08, 2009, 07:59:49 AM
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Sorry i had to start this thread in response to what Superb said in the "Mos Def Challenge" Thread about common being wack post Electric Circus.
I myself, haven't been able to get into a Common album since but my reasons are not because he is now wack.. I think Common is still rapping like he's always been rapping.
I just feel that Commons first five albums up until "Be" were well constructed. Similar in terms of how the production laid the foundation or mood for the entire albums. The albums felt like albums. You could describe how the beats sounded on "one day it will all make sense", "like water for chocolate", "Electric circus" etc.. The albums were well produced with each one offering a different slice of music than the others. And the way Common carried these albums felt, like he was the one who shaped them, by pairing himself with the right producers, musicians and vocalists.
Now to me "Be" and "Finding Forever" sound like common rhyming to bunch of beats that Kanye cooked. Felt more like follow (Common) the leader (Kanye West). These albums lacked any sonic identity. It was just random beats put together. Didnt even feel like Common was too involved in the direction of these projects... Which was much different to Common's first five albums in the sense that you could sonically describe the type of sound and feel of each project.
The Kanye era lost that. The albums don't sound like albums. There's no underlying theme, concept or mood to these albums. They sound more like a collection of songs. I listen to them like mixtapes... skip, skip, play, skip, skip, skip, play etc.
Please, no Cash like responses about how were mad that Common is making money now, when in actual fact "like water for chocolate (Pre Kanye)" is his 2nd highest selling project ahead of finding forever and 50k shy of "Be".
So sales wise Kanye didnt do much for him. Just popularized him a bit more, which was needed to jump start his movie ambitions.
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Aaaah....words of wisdom for the day...
I co-sign every word you say here, and will like to add on with a couple of mine. People sometimes tend to think that producers are the ones that are suposed to make the album, but in general (my opinion), the artists are the ones that make it. Not trying to contradict myself tho, I also feel that producers at a stage need to step up to the plate and take part ownership in shaping it if they see that the artist fumbles.
However, change is sometimes good, but the direction that the change takes should also have weight in having positiveness. I personally think that the artist should be partially blamed if he also involved the producer, but if he just went around looking for beats, then I belive he should be entirely responsible for that.
In the Common case, I believe Common wanted to do something different and not just collecting beats for "BE", and he failed most fans by teaming up with Kanye. The unfortunate part is that the details of the team-up will not be known, but surely it had its perks(sp).
Maybe Common had a pattern, a pattern of using same producer/s for a particular album, and that seemed to work, but well...
:(
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i will never claim to be huge common fan, but i have always respected him. the way you feel about his post kanye era is the way i felt about electric circus...THAT WAS THE BIGGEST LOAD OF NONSENSE I HAVE EVER LISTENED TO!!! GAAAAA'DAYUM THAT WAS KAK!!!
i would beg to differ on Be. i thought that was a well constructed album which covered different topics and still had the same vivid wordplay on songs like "the corner" "food" and "Go" "faithful" and so on. I would definately agree that there was a huge kanye album on be, but i dont know so much about finding forever... but isnt that how ye rolls with anyone he produces... but i think on finding forever common took more control of his project... in fact kanye even said that common turned down a lot of his beats on that album..
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Not sure what you base your "Be" critic on.. Maybe you could argue lyrically it was an album.. But from a production point of view it was scattered. I maintain it was just a collection of beats.
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if kanye wasnt such a "larger than life" character if he was as "in the cut" as NoID would you feel the same about those 2 albums ?
maybe an irrelevant statement. but im wondering nonetheless.
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you can maintain...Deez...LOL!
but on the real. i dont have the pa**ion for the album as u may have......but i really listened to Be in fact i still do...and thought it was really fresh....... and i would not know what a "collection of beats" would be. but i would cla**ify electric circus as "a collection of beats" before Be
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if kanye wasnt such a "larger than life" character if he was as "in the cut" as NoID would you feel the same about those 2 albums ?
maybe an irrelevant statement. but im wondering nonetheless.
Has nothing to do with Kanye. I like Late Registration and don't care too much for No Ids newer material.
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Be is a dope a** "ALBUM". come on ya'll. What about it makes it a "collection of beats" ? Electric Circus is the wackest piece of garbage Common has ever put out. Wrong choice in change of direction from him. Same with UMC. Finding Forever was dope too in my book.
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the way you feel about his post kanye era is the way i felt about electric circus...THAT WAS THE BIGGEST LOAD OF NONSENSE I HAVE EVER LISTENED TO!!! GAAAAA'DAYUM THAT WAS KAK!!!
Nyambz...I agree with u all the way......so its the production team that the artist chooses that makes the album good or bad
No ways....Electric Circus was dope.....DJPeewee. Musically that album was good.....
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Be is a dope a** "ALBUM". come on ya'll. What about it makes it a "collection of beats" ? Electric Circus is the wackest piece of garbage Common has ever put out. Wrong choice in change of direction from him. Same with UMC. Finding Forever was dope too in my book.
I would dissagree with the Electric circus hate.. It was a very different sort of album production wise. It was very intense, lyrically and production wise. You either like the album or you dont but it was not bad.
The production was different. But the beats were excellent productions. Any one of you that think the beats were bad i dare you make a single beat that bodies any beat on Electric circus and i will eat my words.
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Be is a dope a** "ALBUM". come on ya'll. What about it makes it a "collection of beats" ? Electric Circus is the wackest piece of garbage Common has ever put out. Wrong choice in change of direction from him. Same with UMC. Finding Forever was dope too in my book.
I would dissagree with the Electric circus hate.. It was a very different sort of album production wise. It was very intense, lyrically and production wise. You either like the album or you dont but it was not bad.
The production was different. But the beats were excellent productions. Any one of you that think the beats were bad i dare you make a single beat that bodies any beat on Electric circus and i will eat my words.
I've got one.
http://www.africasgateway.com/forums/index.php?topic=25953
LOL !!
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I'll take that as a no... ;)
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I'll take that as a no... ;)
I aint got nothing to prove. 2 hours of me making a beat that's better than anything on EC is a complete waste of my time. What am i gonna gain from it ? EC is still wack either way.
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I'll take that as a no... ;)
I aint got nothing to prove. 2 hours of me making a beat that's better than anything on EC is a complete waste of my time. What am i gonna gain from it ? EC is still wack either way.
I suppose we can agree to dissagree
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No ways that Electric Circus was not just collection of Beats...pls....Its was a good extremely good material.
Be was just a collection of beats...if u listen to 2joints that Jay Dee produced there, they kinda have the same feeling..meaning.. if Jay Dee produced the whole album.....I sort of have the picture in mind of how it would sounded like.
Commercial wise Be was a good stunt to pull....but musically it gat no direction...When I listen to Jay Dee joints there...its like I'm in another zone and the switch to kanye's then...on another zone too.
Maybe those producers can't really work on the same material...Pete Rock would have given it the same feel Jay Dee gave...Maybe if Kanye teamed up with Just Blaze on Be...it would have not just be the collection of beats
Like if u listen to Electric Circus....producers..there...they have the same groove....Neptunes, Jay Dee, ?uestlove and James Poyser
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^^ Gotto agree with Superb on all points. but anyhow, were clearly not going to agree on anything or atleast aknowledge each others points ;)
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Ja at the end of the day we gat different listening skills to music....and that what makes it interesting.
Now as much as I don't want to sound like a hater but...I would really like to know what exactly fascinate u cats about Kanye. Don't get me wrong I like his early stuff material......but what is it exactly dat outstanding about Kanye, cause me personally I think Just Blaze is more dope than him
Gimme the reasons why u think Kanye is better, and I would also give my reasons why I think producers of my choice are dope.
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about Kanye what fascinate me is his ability to pick samples e.g. Alicia Keys - You don't know my name that's genius.
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Well that song originally is not Alicia Keys songs, the group that did that song is The Main Ingredient - Let Me Prove My Love To you from their album Shame on the world.
I think most ppl like Kanye because of the records he samples. other wise than that.....nothing more. He's very good at taking the old records samples and put drums to it and then come up with a new song. To me that's Kanye and his production style. He sampling technique is so easy to figure....I think anybody who is into beatmaking can flip Kanye's style. I don't think he ever uses the chopped sounds....he just loops and tweak the sample there and there. So that's Kanye to me.
My producer of choice
Pete Rock - this dude is a genius...he's sampling technique is sometimes not easy to figure. He can sample more than one record in one beat. His mixing skills is good.
Hi-Tek - This cats is extremely good...he can flip it in any style. Hi-Tek is the kinda producer than u can ask to do it in a different format he will do it for u.
Jay Dee aka Dilla - This cat does not cheat on beats...he put his heart and soul in making a joint. His joint gat more depth, groove...and knows how to capture the best part in a song.
Nyambz is also on the list, but it sad because I haven't had luck to find the original samples that Nyambz 1nce used in certain joints that I like except Village Road...so that bugs me in a way
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Nyambz is also on the list, but it sad because I haven't had luck to find the original samples that Nyambz 1nce used in certain joints that I like except Village Road...so that bugs me in a way
Shame, you can just have it easy by jacking them at his crib... ;D
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Well that song originally is not Alicia Keys songs, the group that did that song is The Main Ingredient - Let Me Prove My Love To you from their album Shame on the world.
I think most ppl like Kanye because of the records he samples. other wise than that.....nothing more. He's very good at taking the old records samples and put drums to it and then come up with a new song. To me that's Kanye and his production style. He sampling technique is so easy to figure....I think anybody who is into beatmaking can flip Kanye's style. I don't think he ever uses the chopped sounds....he just loops and tweak the sample there and there. So that's Kanye to me.
What u mean the song is not Originally Alicia Key's ? The Main Ingredient song is completely different. It's not like it's a remake or a cover version. Kanye sampled them, that's all. So all hip-hop songs then are not original cos they've been sampled ?
I don't know why people fuss about Kanye's production. He's doing it like it's always been done. Dr. Dre, the RZA,etc,etc they've been doing exactly what Kanye's doing and nobody had a problem with it. Just because Kanye's sample choice have been exposed doesn't mean he sucks. All your favourite producers, Pete Rock, Hi-Tek, J-Dilla have mostly used loops throughout their careers. Am i missing something ?
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Well that song originally is not Alicia Keys songs, the group that did that song is The Main Ingredient - Let Me Prove My Love To you from their album Shame on the world.
I think most ppl like Kanye because of the records he samples. other wise than that.....nothing more. He's very good at taking the old records samples and put drums to it and then come up with a new song. To me that's Kanye and his production style. He sampling technique is so easy to figure....I think anybody who is into beatmaking can flip Kanye's style. I don't think he ever uses the chopped sounds....he just loops and tweak the sample there and there. So that's Kanye to me.
What u mean the song is not Originally Alicia Key's ? The Main Ingredient song is completely different. It's not like it's a remake or a cover version. Kanye sampled them, that's all. So all hip-hop songs then are not original cos they've been sampled ?
I don't know why people fuss about Kanye's production. He's doing it like it's always been done. Dr. Dre, the RZA,etc,etc they've been doing exactly what Kanye's doing and nobody had a problem with it. Just because Kanye's sample choice have been exposed doesn't mean he sucks. All your favourite producers, Pete Rock, Hi-Tek, J-Dilla have mostly used loops throughout their careers. Am i missing something ?
cosign MrC
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I agree with TwoTeams and Peewee. I thought Electric Circus was wack. The beats weren't easy on my ear. I liked 'Be' and 'Finding Forever'.
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What u mean the song is not Originally Alicia Key's ? The Main Ingredient song is completely different. It's not like it's a remake or a cover version. Kanye sampled them, that's all. So all hip-hop songs then are not original cos they've been sampled ?
I don't know why people fuss about Kanye's production. He's doing it like it's always been done. Dr. Dre, the RZA,etc,etc they've been doing exactly what Kanye's doing and nobody had a problem with it. Just because Kanye's sample choice have been exposed doesn't mean he sucks. All your favourite producers, Pete Rock, Hi-Tek, J-Dilla have mostly used loops throughout their careers. Am i missing something ?
Okay TwoTeams let me rephrase it
All I meant MrC was that the song was sampled from The Main Ingredient and she based her song in what she took from The Main Ingredient and that is the truth.......!!!!!
Getting back to Kanye...it not about looping or chopping. Almost everybody loops...I meant that his production style is so simple....u can tell that there's really not much that being done in them.
My favourite producers, even if they loop, but u can tell that they've ran an extra mile to make the beat more different from the original sample......
I never said I have a problem with Kanye...All I wanted to know is what really fascinating about him that other producers are not.....!!!
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ths is crazy
to whum dus it matter howmuch mile u went flipping the sample?
what more do u need to do if the sample is already dope as it is? y ruin it?
heck sum of hphop's biggest cla**ics are strait-jacked loops....
dilla, pete, madlib, nyambz, kev brown, kanye, preemo, etc etc. all
sample, yet employ diffrent techniques. and that makes em unique.
Cant we jus enjoy the music for what it is?
or betta yet accept we all gat our own tastes.
Live with it and move on.
f***, producers is a fickle bunch.
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ths is crazy
to whum dus it matter howmuch mile u went flipping the sample?
what more do u need to do if the sample is already dope as it is? y ruin it?
heck sum of hphop's biggest cla**ics are strait-jacked loops....
dilla, pete, madlib, nyambz, kev brown, kanye, preemo, etc etc. all
sample, yet employ diffrent techniques. and that makes em unique.
Cant we jus enjoy the music for what it is?
or betta yet accept we all gat our own tastes.
Live with it and move on.
i agree
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ths is crazy
to whum dus it matter howmuch mile u went flipping the sample?
what more do u need to do if the sample is already dope as it is? y ruin it?
heck sum of hphop's biggest cla**ics are strait-jacked loops....
dilla, pete, madlib, nyambz, kev brown, kanye, preemo, etc etc. all
sample, yet employ diffrent techniques. and that makes em unique.
Cant we jus enjoy the music for what it is?
or betta yet accept we all gat our own tastes.
Live with it and move on.
f***, producers is a fickle bunch.
Its only discussion people can disagree and still keep it moving, its all opinions otherwise why have a message board at all?
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Its only discussion people can disagree and still keep it moving, its all opinions otherwise why have a message board at all?
Co Siggy