Africasgateway.com
Hip Hop Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: A pimp named Sarkozy on December 16, 2009, 04:12:53 PM
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She pa**ed away today.
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Guess that confirms the garlic and beetroot conction doesn't work eh.
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Good f***ing riddance.
I refuse to pretend I'm sad about this bitch's death. A few more fatcats deserve to go.
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I'll come out and say it for everyone else.
I feel absolutely nothing
KARMA IS A MOTHERf***A!
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Check this shit out instead:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4EvVErNhVE
Poor white people. The lengths they have to go to.
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Or check this excellent sleeper hold, applied by a white chick in a schoolyard fight:
http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhh0F3G649Q4rHN955
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I must commend you on your epic derailment pyro
(http://jmn.fadainc.com/funnypics/derailment.jpg)
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Guess that confirms the garlic and beetroot conction doesn't work eh.
:o ouch!
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I hear on Twitter Gareth Cliff twitted "good riddance" regarding Manto's death and folks went wild on him, put the heat on him for real. From Tumi of Tumi and the Volume to Sizwe Dlhomo and other industry folk.
One of them reached out to a senior ANC official to let them know about the "disrespect" and I hear they gon' be bringing the ruckus to Gareth. I can already hear somebody in the ANC say, "Get Julius on the case".
Can't wait to see how this unfolds. ;D ;D ;D
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you know gareth gets it in he'll end up mocking the rest anyway
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I hear on Twitter Gareth Cliff twitted "good riddance" regarding Manto's death and folks went wild on him, put the heat on him for real. From Tumi of Tumi and the Volume to Sizwe Dlhomo and other industry folk.
One of them reached out to a senior ANC official to let them know about the "disrespect" and I hear they gon' be bringing the ruckus to Gareth. I can already hear somebody in the ANC say, "Get Julius on the case".
Can't wait to see how this unfolds. ;D ;D ;D
So the ANC is trying to rule people's cyberspace opinions now?
f*** em, I hope she suffered.
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I wish anonymous would beef against the anc
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Anon is powerful beyond anything Julius and his puppet masters in the ANC could ever fathom.
They would be brough to their knees.
I think maybe I should suggest it.
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R.I.P
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May her soul rest in peace
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As human beings we keep failing all the time. U must prosecute or praise people while they are still here, not when they dead. R.I.P.
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Anon's hacktivism is the shit.
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who is this anonymous you guys are talking about?
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As human beings we keep failing all the time. U must prosecute or praise people while they are still here, not when they dead. R.I.P.
Amen!
speak no ill of the dead
RIP! to her.
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RIP
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I thought she was shit when she was alive and I said it. Why should I pretend otherwise now that she is dead.
who is this anonymous you guys are talking about?
3. we are anonymous
4. anonymous is legion
5. anonymous never forgives
6. anonymous can be a horrible, uncaring senseless monster
7. anonymous is still able to deliver
18. everything that can be labeled can be hated
19. the more you hate it the stronger it gets
20. nothing is to be taken seriously
26. any topic can easily be turned into something totally unrelated
27. always question a persons sexual preference without any real reason.
44. when one sees a lion one must get into the car
For more info on Anon, you must find out what /b/ is.
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As human beings we keep failing all the time. U must prosecute or praise people while they are still here, not when they dead. R.I.P.
Amen!
speak no ill of the dead
just out of curiosity, why not?
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I thought she was shit when she was alive and I said it. Why should I pretend otherwise now that she is dead.
who is this anonymous you guys are talking about?
3. we are anonymous
4. anonymous is legion
5. anonymous never forgives
6. anonymous can be a horrible, uncaring senseless monster
7. anonymous is still able to deliver
18. everything that can be labeled can be hated
19. the more you hate it the stronger it gets
20. nothing is to be taken seriously
26. any topic can easily be turned into something totally unrelated
27. always question a persons sexual preference without any real reason.
44. when one sees a lion one must get into the car
For more info on Anon, you must find out what /b/ is.
is this meant to confuse me?
what is /b/?
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GarethCliff on Twitter: Relieved about Manto. I was worried she'd finish all our Phuza before 2010
honestly im indifferent to her death. just made me think a bit more about my liver, i guess.
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I thought she was shit when she was alive and I said it. Why should I pretend otherwise now that she is dead.
who is this anonymous you guys are talking about?
3. we are anonymous
4. anonymous is legion
5. anonymous never forgives
6. anonymous can be a horrible, uncaring senseless monster
7. anonymous is still able to deliver
18. everything that can be labeled can be hated
19. the more you hate it the stronger it gets
20. nothing is to be taken seriously
26. any topic can easily be turned into something totally unrelated
27. always question a persons sexual preference without any real reason.
44. when one sees a lion one must get into the car
For more info on Anon, you must find out what /b/ is.
is this meant to confuse me?
what is /b/?
Not meant to confuse you. I just told you who Anon is. If you want more, you will have to found what /b/ is. Stop expecting people to spoonfeed you. Did you have OBE in school? Kids who had OBE can't do anything for themselves.
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i always hated those OBE f***s
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I thought she was shit when she was alive and I said it. Why should I pretend otherwise now that she is dead.
who is this anonymous you guys are talking about?
3. we are anonymous
4. anonymous is legion
5. anonymous never forgives
6. anonymous can be a horrible, uncaring senseless monster
7. anonymous is still able to deliver
18. everything that can be labeled can be hated
19. the more you hate it the stronger it gets
20. nothing is to be taken seriously
26. any topic can easily be turned into something totally unrelated
27. always question a persons sexual preference without any real reason.
44. when one sees a lion one must get into the car
For more info on Anon, you must find out what /b/ is.
is this meant to confuse me?
what is /b/?
Not meant to confuse you. I just told you who Anon is. If you want more, you will have to found what /b/ is. Stop expecting people to spoonfeed you. Did you have OBE in school? Kids who had OBE can't do anything for themselves.
what is OBE?
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Jesus Christ!
What is wrong with kids nowadays?
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Jesus Christ!
What is wrong with kids nowadays?
hahaha! ;D
but seriously man, what is OBE?
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Outcomes based education
The new teaching system in schools in which kids are allowed to learn at their own pace and all judged according to a different standard. It breeds stupidity.
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Outcomes based education
The new teaching system in schools in which kids are allowed to learn at their own pace and all judged according to a different standard. It breeds stupidity.
hmmm. sounds like this requires parents to be involved in their kids school work more than they had to in the past.
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there's also peer-based a**essment and collective grading. meaning you can chill and not do shit, while still getting the clever kid's mark.
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Checkout Gareth's initial statement and his follow up comments and the reaction of twittville here:
http://www.justcurious.co.za/2009/12/gareth-loses-his-mind-my-respect/
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Checkout Gareth's initial statement and his follow up comments and the reaction of twittville here:
http://www.justcurious.co.za/2009/12/gareth-loses-his-mind-my-respect/
one comment starts off with ...
"Dj Sbu with his fake lisp and his annoying doof-doof music ..."
hahahahahaha!
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@Motho
that coment reminds me of a braai I was at yesterday. the doof doof music. ;D
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@Motho
that coment reminds me of a braai I was at yesterday. the doof doof music. ;D
LOL and while we on the subject of braai, f*** vegetarians at braais this girl actually said to me "im vegetarian but only eat meat at braais" smh at part-time vegetarians
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Checkout Gareth's initial statement and his follow up comments and the reaction of twittville here:
http://www.justcurious.co.za/2009/12/gareth-loses-his-mind-my-respect/
one comment starts off with ...
"Dj Sbu with his fake lisp and his annoying doof-doof music ..."
hahahahahaha!
:D :D :D
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while we on the subject of braai, f*** vegetarians at braais
f*** u too
this girl actually said to me "im vegetarian but only eat meat at braais" smh at part-time vegetarians
lol
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out goes vuyo mbuli's vasegate scandal and in comes garethcliff's mantogate scandal.
am I alone in thinking that most people are upset because he said exactly what they were thinking??? if he is glad she died, why is everyone else upset? im sure manto's family will mourn her how they feel regardless of what gareth thinks..no?
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out goes vuyo mbuli's vasegate scandal and in comes garethcliff's mantogate scandal.
am I alone in thinking that most people are upset because he said exactly what they were thinking??? if he is glad she died, why is everyone else upset? im sure manto's family will mourn her how they feel regardless of what gareth thinks..no?
it's because he's white a man who is happy that a black woman died in a country with a history of white people killing black people just because they felt white people were were better than black people and everything was forgiven through reconciliation talks even though black people are still f***ed for the most part.
generally, South Africa is not a hate-mongering country. at least not in public. it's against people's sensibilities. it's also a very race-touchy country. Cliff knows this. that's why he makes the big bucks.
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out goes vuyo mbuli's vasegate scandal and in comes garethcliff's mantogate scandal.
am I alone in thinking that most people are upset because he said exactly what they were thinking??? if he is glad she died, why is everyone else upset? im sure manto's family will mourn her how they feel regardless of what gareth thinks..no?
it's because he's white a man who is happy that a black woman died in a country with a history of white people killing black people just because they felt white people were were better than black people and everything was forgiven through reconciliation talks even though black people are still f***ed for the most part.
generally, South Africa is not a hate-mongering country. at least not in public. it's against people's sensibilities. it's also a very race-touchy country. Cliff knows this. that's why he makes the big bucks.
tell me about it. so had DJ Fresh said it, would the backlash have been different?
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out goes vuyo mbuli's vasegate scandal and in comes garethcliff's mantogate scandal.
am I alone in thinking that most people are upset because he said exactly what they were thinking??? if he is glad she died, why is everyone else upset? im sure manto's family will mourn her how they feel regardless of what gareth thinks..no?
see now thats what tiger shoulda did, deny on all 18 accounts in public and make right by his wife and his wife only. im sure vuyo been answering to his wife bout this, and no one else
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out goes vuyo mbuli's vasegate scandal and in comes garethcliff's mantogate scandal.
am I alone in thinking that most people are upset because he said exactly what they were thinking??? if he is glad she died, why is everyone else upset? im sure manto's family will mourn her how they feel regardless of what gareth thinks..no?
it's because he's white a man who is happy that a black woman died in a country with a history of white people killing black people just because they felt white people were were better than black people and everything was forgiven through reconciliation talks even though black people are still f***ed for the most part.
generally, South Africa is not a hate-mongering country. at least not in public. it's against people's sensibilities. it's also a very race-touchy country. Cliff knows this. that's why he makes the big bucks.
tell me about it. so had DJ Fresh said it, would the backlash have been different?
of course. it's the same shtick used by every "controversial" white columnist in SA. they speak "honestly" and with "logic" and black people respond "emotionally", "irrationally" and with the "race card".
South Africans are polarized so easily for the sake ratings/selling papers/building brands, it's almost as amazing as it is boring.
sometimes i really wonder if we care. for example, the people castigating or defending Manto, how much time have they spent actually trying to do something about the AIDS pandemic?
isn't this supposed to be about HIV/AIDS to begin with, not whether or not we should respect dead people?
or is that just me?
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Mr Cliff is a grown as man and can speak as he pleases.
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of course. it's the same shtick used by every "controversial" white columnist in SA. they speak "honestly" and with "logic" and black people respond "emotionally", "irrationally" and with the "race card".
Pretty much it.
Like some of the comments on that site Black posted.
Its like they are saying its a race issue and suddenly all black people are sad about her death, though they hated her in life. Does this mean all black people are hypocrites?
Dude said how he felt. If the ANC or whoever do get involved, they are just as f***ing stupid as she was. End of story.
Let's rather talk about something interesting. RR, have you found out what /b/ is yet?
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Thatha garry, I thought one of our rights as south africans was freedom of speech, why are people violatin the poor kats rights, SMH at malema and his ANC crew with their lack of knowledge
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this is some real shit though
(http://www.justcurious.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/setlatla.jpg)
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this is some real shit though
(http://www.justcurious.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/setlatla.jpg)
100% true. YOu can write what you want about a dead person and no one can do shit. You can't even be sued for slander or defamation.
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^^^ cos some things just are and need no explanation or reasoning. It's part of being a human being and i think it's called compa**ion or something like that.
On the other hand peeps might just be scared to say bad things. dead people are a**ociated with the spirit world, so maybe it's a fear of them coming back as ghosts or whatever and haunting u.lol !!!
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Let's rather talk about something interesting. RR, have you found out what /b/ is yet?
not yet
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By the way, did you guys get the package I sent yesterday?
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, so maybe it's a fear of them coming back as ghosts or whatever and haunting u.lol !!!
hahahah a ba batle manto a ba pokele, thats all :D :D
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out goes vuyo mbuli's vasegate scandal and in comes garethcliff's mantogate scandal.
am I alone in thinking that most people are upset because he said exactly what they were thinking??? if he is glad she died, why is everyone else upset? im sure manto's family will mourn her how they feel regardless of what gareth thinks..no?
it's because he's white a man who is happy that a black woman died in a country with a history of white people killing black people just because they felt white people were were better than black people and everything was forgiven through reconciliation talks even though black people are still f***ed for the most part.
generally, South Africa is not a hate-mongering country. at least not in public. it's against people's sensibilities. it's also a very race-touchy country. Cliff knows this. that's why he makes the big bucks.
tell me about it. so had DJ Fresh said it, would the backlash have been different?
of course. it's the same shtick used by every "controversial" white columnist in SA. they speak "honestly" and with "logic" and black people respond "emotionally", "irrationally" and with the "race card".
South Africans are polarized so easily for the sake ratings/selling papers/building brands, it's almost as amazing as it is boring.
sometimes i really wonder if we care. for example, the people castigating or defending Manto, how much time have they spent actually trying to do something about the AIDS pandemic?
isn't this supposed to be about HIV/AIDS to begin with, not whether or not we should respect dead people?
or is that just me?
exactly not even one of these people is mentioning HIV/Aids at all. instead the topic quite predictably becomes about race instead of about HIV/Aids, which is the real issue here, not manto or gareth or whether or not she rests in peace or not.
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And seriously, why the f*** can I still not see the shoutbox or the recent topics?
The entire left side of all the cool shit has been gone for months now, since the upgrades started. When is this site being fixed?
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*acts like he didn't read that*
So manto is gone huh?
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doesnt manto mean feet in sotho?
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Yep!
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Yep!
*stifled giggle*
is it wrong to giggle at the meanings of the names of the dead?
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Feet Thsabalala!
f***ing hilarious
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Yep!
*stifled giggle*
is it wrong to giggle at the meanings of the names of the dead?
dont be so sensitive lovey
I hope the next deacon mocks me online when I die
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Yep!
*stifled giggle*
is it wrong to giggle at the meanings of the names of the dead?
yes and you'll be cursed. you'll give birth to kids with heads shaped like beetroot and african potato
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Yep!
*stifled giggle*
is it wrong to giggle at the meanings of the names of the dead?
yes and you'll be cursed. you'll give birth to kids with heads shaped like beetroot and african potato
u failed, that will never happen :P
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Yep!
*stifled giggle*
is it wrong to giggle at the meanings of the names of the dead?
yes and you'll be cursed. you'll give birth to kids with heads shaped like beetroot and african potato
u failed, that will never happen :P
trust me you will *preps shipment of wine*
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Yep!
*stifled giggle*
is it wrong to giggle at the meanings of the names of the dead?
yes and you'll be cursed. you'll give birth to kids with heads shaped like beetroot and african potato
u failed, that will never happen :P
trust me you will *preps shipment of wine*
:D v'sek
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Yep!
*stifled giggle*
is it wrong to giggle at the meanings of the names of the dead?
yes and you'll be cursed. you'll give birth to kids with heads shaped like beetroot and african potato
u failed, that will never happen :P
trust me you will *preps shipment of wine*
:D v'sek
'cause you know he aint lie
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Yep!
*stifled giggle*
is it wrong to giggle at the meanings of the names of the dead?
yes and you'll be cursed. you'll give birth to kids with heads shaped like beetroot and african potato
u failed, that will never happen :P
trust me you will *preps shipment of wine*
:D v'sek
'cause you know he aint lie
ill have u know since manto's death ive cut down on alcohol. *proud face*
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The ANCYL has spoken.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/news/article236252.ece
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Thatha garry, I thought one of our rights as south africans was freedom of speech, why are people violatin the poor kats rights, SMH at malema and his ANC crew with their lack of knowledge
How are people violating his right of speech by disagreeing with him?? Say what you want but be sure to expect a reaction positive or negative...
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This morning on the news to lose or whatever it is called, the main story was that she had a drink with Elvis and Frank Sinatra last night.
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Form his site:
Much Ado About Manto!
17th December, 2009
I am astounded by the emotional overreaction of a group of people over my comments about the death of Former Health Minister Manto Tshabalala-Msimang.
My opinion of her in life was not a particularly favourable one and I am sure she might have thought the same of me - but this is of no import. Now that she is dead, it would appear I am required to put up the pretence that I am sad for it. I'm afraid I can't be quite so pious.
To her family: Losing a mother, grandmother or relative is a horrible experience. You have my sympathy - on a human level - but you can take heart from all the notables paying their respects. I doubt mine would matter.
Minister Tshabalala-Msimang presided over the most disastrous policy decisions in South African medical history. While Minister she resolutely refused to accept the wide scientific consensus on the links between HIV and AIDS and brooked not a stitch of opposition to her refusal to provide anti-retroviral medication to, among others, pregnant women suffering from AIDS. Her tendency to accept the theories of widely discredited quacks like Matthias Raath and the unquestioning support of her boss, Thabo Mbeki, further distanced her from the people she was appointed to help. It goes without saying that South Africa suffers from the worst worldwide prevalence and infection rate for AIDS and so these matters have to be seen, in context, as the most paramount for any South African Health Ministry. Her removal from office by Kgalema Motlanthe was long overdue when she was ousted late last year. The Los Angeles Times claims, in an article today (17/12/09), that she was directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of some 300 000 people. These are the facts. The opinions, caricatured all over the world were much harsher: "Dr. Beetroot" was hardly a figure of universal love and devotion.
So why now are we required to show such uniform (if we are to believe the great majority of media outlets) sadness and piety? Surely this is the same kind of hypocrisy that saw Michael Jackson absolved of all the child-molestation offences the moment he left this mortal coil...
The overarching legacy of this woman is not going to be her "practicality" or "the advancement of women's rights" as proffered by the ANC this morning. It was not four weeks ago that some within the ANC were calling for Thabo Mbeki to be tried for crimes against humanity over his AIDS policy. With this same brush must Manto not be tarred?
So when I was called by Primedia EyeWitness News today to respond to the ANC Youth League’s demand for an apology from me (as usual, they’re talking through the media who respond dutifully every time – Julius, just call me Dude – you have my number), I couldn’t help wondering why so much valuable time and space is given to a simple tweet. Some of us will agree.... and others will agree to disagree. Great minds don’t always think alike. But what we have to agree on is the power of Twitter. Who would have thought a little twit could evoke such a reaction?
Follow me........ @GarethCliff
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Form his site:
Much Ado About Manto!
17th December, 2009
I am astounded by the emotional overreaction of a group of people over my comments about the death of Former Health Minister Manto Tshabalala-Msimang.
So when I was called by Primedia EyeWitness News today to respond to the ANC Youth League’s demand for an apology from me (as usual, they’re talking through the media who respond dutifully every time – Julius, just call me Dude – you have my number), I couldn’t help wondering why so much valuable time and space is given to a simple tweet. Some of us will agree.... and others will agree to disagree. Great minds don’t always think alike. But what we have to agree on is the power of Twitter. Who would have thought a little twit could evoke such a reaction?
Follow me........ @GarethCliff
He's correct on that statement in bold, regarding himself that is. ;D ;D
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RR, here is more infor for you on Anon.
Message from an oldfag:
We are the little voice in the back of your head that wants to f*** your hot sixteen year old daughter. We are the father who beats his six year old child simply because he spilled his beer. We are every chef that's ever spit in some random person's food for the hell of it. We are the pyromaniac who burns down the homeless shelter for shits and giggles. We are the person who rapes the same girl twice. We are that feeling you get when you beat your pets; and enjoy it. We see some guy hang himself live, we laugh. A wrestler kills his family, we laugh. Some maladjusted Asian shoots up his university, we laugh. Fifty-thousand die in North Korea, we laugh. AIDS ravages a continent, we laugh. An Austrian man locks his daughter in his basement for 24 years and fathers 8 children with her, we laugh. A religion invented by a psychotic writer swindles countless gullible f***tards out of their cash, we laugh, and then go kick his religion's a** just for the hell of it. We aren't some vigilante group righting wrongs. We aren't your friends, your buddies or your saviors. Your feelings mean nothing to us. We are human nature unencumbered by pointless ethics, foolish moralities or arbitrary laws and restrictions. We are every dark impulse you have; unrestrained and fully realized. We are what deep down, you wish you were. We exist as a means for instant gratification, purely at our own whim. We have no culture, we have no laws, written or otherwise. We are an autonomous collective, each an insignificant part of a whole. You cannot a**imilate us, we do not change. You cannot defeat us, we do not exist. You cannot infiltrate us, we know our own. We do not sleep, we do not eat and we do not feel remorse. We will tear you apart from outside and in, we have all the time in the world. You operate under the delusion that we will someday be outdated, that we might even see the light. You are irrevocably wrong. You are not special, you are not unique and you aren't crusaders for justice. You're a blend of college age faggots who think that they can do some sort of good, and who are desperate to belong, to have attention. You have accomplished nothing, and you will fall. Enjoy your AIDS, faggots.
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I just ate some fried chicken.
The breasts were juicy, and the buns were soft and warm.
Afterwords, the division manager of Popeye's came up to my table and asked me how the meal was. I said I was satisfied, but the meal lacked a certain je ne sais quoi. He apologized profusely, and said he had something to show me that would make up for it.
He lead me to the back of the Popeye's, to a room soaked from floor to ceiling in blood. In the center of it was a live horse, chained by all four legs to the structural supports of the warehouse like room. As I watched, employees of the Popeye's cut large sections from the horse, which was whinnying and screaming in horror. The Popeye's employees took the chunks of horseflesh and sliced them into pieces, then they rooted around through the bags of trash strewn around the room to find discarded chicken bones. They quickly tenderized the meat with sledgehammers and fed it into a machine which formed the horsemeat around the bones, then they breaded and deepfried it.
I asked the division manager why he had led me back to this place, and he pointed at the steed's rump, the a**hole puckering rhythmically with terror. "We're just about to use that section, would you like a crack at it first?"
I quickly unzipped my pants and wasted no time jamming my erect Image:penisfilter.png into the stallion's defenseless a**hole. I came just as the horse died. I was delighted. Popeye's definitely went the extra mile to make me a satisfied customer.
—Anonymous
I luled so hard, I think I may have caused a hernia
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Come on man, don't u think they violatin his rights by such appology wanters like malema is doing over media?? Stupid 30% woodwork talk from juju right there man. I support Garry, he might have been rough but if its the straight truth from his heart then so be it.
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An Open Letter to Gareth Cliff
Tumi Molekane
Dear Gareth Rhydal Cliff,
I don’t follow you on twitter, I don’t listen to your radio show, I have never tried to watch your talk show and I can’t ignore you on Idols, I try. I am not a fair man, but if I were, I would say you make valid layman critiques of people’s talents or lack thereof. I would say you are a successful and loveable South African personality worth all the attention and endorsements you get. But I am not saying that. Oh no, I am saying you are an idiot.
The death of South Africa’s former Health Minister Dr Manto Tshabalala-Msimang has brought the worst out of you. I heard/read of her death through a tweet of yours retweeted by someone I follow.
You wrote:
“Manto is dead. Good. A selfish and wicked bungler of the lowest order. Rotten attitude and rancid livers - all 3 of them…”
I thought you were joking about her career being dead or her political life, so I made a few calls and confirmed that she indeed had pa**ed away. I considered her life, her family and her legacy and then went back to read with disbelief your statement. This motherf***er is out of his mind, she is dead. Dead. You still talking shit and she is dead. Many other people felt the same way.
DJ Sbu popular disc jockey and personality said:
“Gareth my brother, av lost family members 2 HIV/AIDS too didn’t agree wit a lot of her decisions but after her pa**ion u tweet tht, ur an a**”
I can only imagine that the “pa**ion” DJ Sbu is talking about is her years given in service of the movement that was at the forefront of liberating South Africa from the tyranny of Apartheid. And the decisions he did not agree with related to her controversial a**ertions about HIV and its relation to AIDS. Or her much publicised fight with the Treatment Action Campaign.
Suede blogger and twitter enthusiast said:
“Dr. Manto Tshabalala-Msimang, was a mother, a daughter, a human being. The respect you pay her in death is respect to those she left behind.”
You live, work and are a citizen of a country whose people respect and hold its dead in high-esteem across cultural and race lines. I am pretty sure even you are familiar with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s hearings which centred around parents wanting the remains of their children killed by Apartheid police agents. You know this, and instead of being sensitive to these people’s beliefs you deliberately go on a public forum and insult South Africa’s recently deceased former Health minister. You should know better. You can’t possibly be that ignorant or arrogant? Or can you? Your timing was also perfect. You chose to make that statement on Reconciliation day. A day charged with fostering reconciliation and national unity.
Of course there are people who agreed with your statement, followers that believe, “death doesn’t earn you an automatic pa** to respect” or others who said, “why all the h8 towards Gareth Cliff? Is he not entitled to his opinion? Whether you agree or not, you can’t change his mind.” Or, “have to agree with the Manto comment. She has blood on her hands, why change our views just because she drank herself 2 death?”
I would not like to deny you your right to an opinion, neither do I want you to lie about your true feelings because Dr Tshabalala-Msimang is dead, although it must be noted that without much prompting you quickly changed your weekly abusive tirades on Michael Jackson to adoration once the pop star was late, even participating in a tribute to the king of pop. Was that you changing how you feel or opportunism?
I would only hope Manto Tshabalala-Msimang’s death would make you reflect on her life, that’s why we have funerals brother. We look back at a life and examine that person’s triumphs and shortcomings and draw lessons to which we can lead our own lives. Even the general secretary of the Treatment Action Campaign, an organisation which fought so acrimoniously her stance on AZT, was courtly enough to say:
“We don’t wish ill on any human being even though we had a very difficult time with her as minister of health. We are sending our condolences to her family and children.”
In my opinion the SABC should force an apology out of you in the least; at the most you should be fired. Even though you said the statement in your private capacity on twitter, you defended it on radio the next morning. That arrogant defiance is just as bad if not worse to me. Not too mention you are still the 5fm DJ to the 20000 people who follow you on twitter. But opportunely, your statement has raised some interesting issues. So I will take the advice of your 5fm colleague DJ Fresh who tweeted:
“I don’t agree with Gareth’s approach, but attacking the man and not the ‘issue’ is futile, debate101”
I also take issue with the way your statement defines her legacy. Did you know her? Did you know her family? Do you know what lead her to exile in Russia? What lead her to medicine? What sacrifices she made for this democracy? No sir, your experience of her is that manipulated, ridiculed and caricatured public persona. I refuse to let you present that as her legacy.
I don’t agree with insulting your president and ridiculing your leadership. Whether by Julius Malema, Helen Zille or the Mail & Guardian? I think this kind of disrespect has far reaching consequences for us as a nation. Instead of reading articles that explore with the aim to promote understanding why, for instance, President Zuma has so many wives, we in turn humiliate and mock the man. Before we examine former President Mbeki’s standpoint on HIV we call him a kook. We further undermine our laws on freedom of speech by parading opinions as facts and hiding behind newspaper profit margins and censorship. This is no way of building and nurturing a non-racial, democratic South Africa.
There is a myth that claims there is a definitive consensus on what the scientific community believes about HIV/AIDS. This is not true. When former president Mbeki put together an international AIDS advisory panel to ascertain why AIDS is defined different in Africa to the way it is defined in western countries and if AZTs cause more harm than good, he together with his health minister Dr Manto were vilified and demonised. I don’t know what was discovered or discussed at this International AIDS advisory committee but it seems like that scientific debate does not apply to HIV/AIDS. 2008 Nobel Laureate Dr Luc Montagnier who discovered HIV claimed the following:
“We can be exposed to HIV many times without being chronically infected, our immune system will get rid of the virus within a few weeks, if you have a good immune system; and this is also the problem of African people. Their nutrition is not very equilibrated; they are in oxidative stress, even if they are not infected with HIV; so their immune system doesn’t work well already. So its prone, it can, you know, allow HIV to get in and persist. We should push for more, you know, a combination of measures; antioxidants, nutrition advice, nutrition, fighting other infections - Malaria, TB, parasitosis, worms - education of course, genital hygiene for men and women also.”
This seems amazing to me, don’t you think Gareth? Like something we should explore, especially since we claim to care about the scores of people dying of this pandemic. I would like to think Dr Manto believed this and tried to give it her scientific attention, after all beetroots and garlic constitute a great nutritional diet.
So there brother, even when you don’t know it, you are helping us get further as a country, for without idiots like you revealing your ignorance, intelligent motherf***ers like me can’t call you out.
Be good.
[i like Tumi's writing style]
culled from mahala (http://www.mahala.co.za/reality/an-open-letter-to-gareth-cliff/).
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it's only now that this has become a proper discussion, in my view.
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some strong comments from the site:
"I feel physically sick when I read the comments of this wanker’s followers oh his pathetic blog (http://www.garethcliff.com/chronicles.php?articleid=700). Cliff has become a cult hero to disaffected racists who believe that the ANC and all Black people are incompetent - and that the country was ‘better run’ during Apartheid. I hope he is proud of that.
Tshabalala-Msimang presided over decisions I wholeheartedly disagree with, but there is a time and a place to discuss these issues. The event of her pa**ing, and on Reconciliation Day, is neither the time nor the place.
We should remind ourselves that we are not talking about Hitler. We are talking about someone who dedicated their life to the emancipation of her people from White oppression. Her bad decisions may be unforgivable but they cannot alone define her life.
I guess we shouldn’t really care what a self-obsessed reactionary like Cliff thinks about anything. What is more disturbing is what he represents, and how many people see him as some kind of ‘revolutionary’ who is ‘not scared to speak his mind’."
and another:
"When we look back on this time in our country, what will we remember? How people with people with opposing views were vilified and treated like monsters, how racism, fear and dogma thrived while hundreds of thousands of africans died from preventable diseases, their immune systems weakened by toxins and malnutrition, while those who tried to make us see that a holistic approach to health – of our environment and ourselves – while perhaps a more difficult path would ultimately save not just lives, but our planet as well, were hounded and dismissed as lunatics.
The former health minister was not someone who I would go to any lengths to defend at a personal level, we all have personality flaws. I was a health reporter when she was minister and I remain impressed at how she transformed our health system from one that served 8% of the population to one that now delivers primary health care to the majority of South Africans. Committed to change and never courting popularity, she fought for what she belived and took on some of the biggest threats to our health . It was under her leadership that smoking was banned in public places and huge effort put into fighting TB, the real cause of many of those deaths attributed to HIV.
I suspect history will be a lot kinder to the former president and his health minister than we have been and I also suspect that south africa will be full of people who will claim they never dismissed outright the claims of dissidents, that they were never part of the hysterical adherence to a flawed theory that makes money for the pharmaceutical industry, that they never believed all that bullshit about HIV….because there are a number of sober and rational people and that number grows all the time, who have taken time to look at the HIV causes Aids theory (until it is proved, it remains a theory and should – as such - be vigorously examined) and concluded that we are being fed a load of bullshit.
The personal attacks on Aids dissidents points to insecurity and that is understandable, because I would be insecure defending a theory that is flawed, that just doesn’t make sense and has never been proved. What do we have to lose by being open to other theories and views? Why is the view that poverty, malnutrition and exposure to toxic chemicals causes immune system failure so threatening? Or do we need a villain to blame so that we don’t have to share the poverty or change the way we live, so that we can continue our destructive greedy lives comforted by the fact that the poverty of the majority ensures that whatever happens to us, we will get the best care money can buy.
Every day I become more appalled at how white south africans hide their ingrained racism behind other issues, how suddenly they care about the state of schools in townships and the quality of life for the majority, how the present government is seen as demonically causing all the social ills apartheid gave us…I am even more appalled that the spirit of Ubuntu has not taken hold, that opposing views are not given time of day but there’s instead an unyielding hysteria that accompanies discussion of most public issues, and underlying this is a deeply rooted fear. Until we change, until we all open up, we will continue to live in the shadow of fear and there are no chemicals or drugs in the world that can save us."
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thanks for these P. I like whats being said on both of them
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in conclusion:
Gareth Cliff gagged from talking about Manto
The 5FM DJ has been told by the SABC not to speak about Tshabalala-Msimang while on air, reports the Saturday Star.
Cliff sparked an uproar after he posted several comments about the former health minister shortly after her death.
On hearing of the death of Tshabalala-Msimang, Cliff put up a Twitter posting which read: "Manto is dead. Good. A selfish and wicked bungler of the lowest order. Rotten attitude and rancid livers - all three of them..."
The ANC Youth League slammed Cliff's comments as an "undignified and hateful onslaught" and demanded that the DJ apologise to the family of Manto Tshabalala-Msimang.
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Interesting responses under Tumi's open letter. very informative.
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So cen I change my naym to Shaabalaala Mmmseemang and continew to get her salary? Ees mos nutting. De govemint do tings like det evryday
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So cen I change my naym to Shaabalaala Mmmseemang and continew to get her salary? Ees mos nutting. De govemint do tings like det evryday
wrong thread.
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Shit! Faaibop is back.
Anyway, check this, you can get your eye colour changed permanently now:
http://www.newcoloriris.com/
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Shit! Faaibop is back.
Anyway, check this, you can get your eye colour changed permanently now:
http://www.newcoloriris.com/
aint nothing scarier than a black person with blue eyes. a girl I was flirting with paid me a visit earlier this year, she had blue eye contacts. made feel so uncomfortable, I kept a knife my pocket till she left the morning.
jokes :). but Im serious about her looking scary.
PS: wrong thread
;D
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But the real topic here should be, Faibop, where the hell have you been?
You haven't been on in years.
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Rest Is Peace.
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Wow, when did you get the sad news Koli? Last night?
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Wow, when did you get the sad news Koli? Last night?
yeah! i been burning up MY liver the past few....