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Hip Hop Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: the panic! on February 04, 2010, 02:31:54 PM
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does the SA underground still exist? apart from the Iaepetus crew and a few acts in the EC im not seeing very much of it. use this thread to list and share a number of underground emcees/crews that you mess with.
Watz, where you at homie?
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The question I'm bout to ask is one I usually try to avoid because I think that to a certain extent it's a waste of time tryna differentiate between under/overground, especially since there are is a vast range of views on the lines that separate the two 'types of hiphop', but for the purpose of this thread you have started, I would like you to define underground. Does a lack of commercial success make you underground? Or is the label tied to your subject matter/beat selection/etc? Or is it something else completely?
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damn. i was afraid this would come up. its a valid question and ill offer my view in a bit. . .in the meantime i encourage you to go with your gut, fam.
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I would like you to define underground. Does a lack of commercial success make you underground? Or is the label tied to your subject matter/beat selection/etc? Or is it something else completely?
thank you. i was about to ask him also when i saw this. and then i also wanted to ask you panic, under g. do YOU consider yourself underground. why or why not...
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I've heard from some guys in J-sec, that are working on some wig twisting shit, several releases should be coming, but I don't wanna jump the gun, so we'll just be patient until it actually drops, otherwise it's just hot air.
@Roze & Tang, I think he means non conformist music by 'underground'. /or new potential talent, that is still under the radar.
i'll pm you details if you really wanna know, without putting anyone on blast.
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@Roze & Tang, I think he means non conformist music by 'underground'. /or new potential talent, that is still under the radar.
watz, i still think that needs to clarified a bit hey. and hopefully we can go there with this and it wont end up like one of those conversations you just end up wanting to ignore. because thats what tends to happen here.
because sometimes people are slated, identified as not being underground enough. sometimes i feel like this is always left so open that one wonders. new potential talent i understand, but i think this tends to extend beyond that doesnt it. im often left wondering what does this really mean. is it content, is it not being signed by a major, is it not identifying with certain markers that are more popularly understood and experienced as popular culture. what is the notion of non conformist music. what is it and how do we identify it. sometimes its not clear to me. the edges get blurred and used to bash others and validate others. sometimes im not sure if there is consistency. im trying to understand.
and then what happens when being non-conformist becomes this cool thing, which we know it does.
then say perhaps, what of the people who might be creating what might be understood as non conformist music, but are in your face.
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@Watz word. please do that, bro. there actually could be something to this. im currently talking to the head of a nonprofit media outlet who's more than willing to provide a platform for 'obscure', 'niche' SA Hip Hop. shit thats deeply rooted in the culture and mad invisible to our media, both in practical and philosophical terms.
@everyone, im referring to dusty anti-populous motherf***ers who trip out on doing sick, dirty things to sound and syntax while tampering with reality. im playing. . .kind of.;). ill answer you in a bit.
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You know what, I'ma jump right in. Anybody catches feelings then we'll deal with it later...
There's a dude called K-Dog from my hood, he features on R-Senic's album on a track called Blind produced by AG's Trompie (think he goes by the name bleksperm around these parts?).
K-Dog has flows for days and is rugged with it. IMHO he kills everyone on the track mentioned above. (Trompie, care to comment?) I have a video somewhere of him performing at the Kota Tour (dungeon shack/1808/graveside kinda thing that happens in Tembisa), I'll try get the video and up it in this thread during the weekend. By the way, I've put a reverbnation page up for R-Senic, think I'll put the track in question up so you can hear K-Dog spit. Think I'll do that now...
Anyway, K-Dog does not have an album out, and I don't know if he is working on one. I'll find that out too.
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@Watz word. please do that, bro. there actually could be something to this. im currently talking to the head of a nonprofit media outlet who's more than willing to provide a platform for 'obscure', 'niche' SA Hip Hop. shit thats deeply rooted in the culture and mad invisible to our media, both in practical and philosophical terms.
@everyone, im referring to dusty anti-populous motherf***ers who trip out on doing sick, dirty things to sound and syntax while tampering with reality. im playing. . .kind of.;). ill answer you in a bit.
right...anyway...
@panic and errbody else: The track is now up on ReverbNation. It's called Blind. The artist you should check for on Reverbnation is R-Senic but the dude I'm talking about is called K-Dog and is author of the second verse on the song.
I know you negros is lazy...here's a direct link to R-Senic's reverbnation page: http://www.reverbnation.com/#/rsenic
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I would like you to define underground. Does a lack of commercial success make you underground? Or is the label tied to your subject matter/beat selection/etc? Or is it something else completely?
thank you. i was about to ask him also when i saw this. and then i also wanted to ask you panic, under g. do YOU consider yourself underground. why or why not...
i'm not sure i understand your question. i like underground hip hop, but i don't think i view myself as underground, because i don't rap/produce music.
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watz, i still think that needs to clarified a bit hey. and hopefully we can go there with this and it wont end up like one of those conversations you just end up wanting to ignore. because thats what tends to happen here.
because sometimes people are slated, identified as not being underground enough. sometimes i feel like this is always left so open that one wonders. new potential talent i understand, but i think this tends to extend beyond that doesnt it. im often left wondering what does this really mean. is it content, is it not being signed by a major, is it not identifying with certain markers that are more popularly understood and experienced as popular culture. what is the notion of non conformist music. what is it and how do we identify it. sometimes its not clear to me. the edges get blurred and used to bash others and validate others. sometimes im not sure if there is consistency. im trying to understand.
and then what happens when being non-conformist becomes this cool thing, which we know it does.
then say perhaps, what of the people who might be creating what might be understood as non conformist music, but are in your face.
is it content? yes.
is it not being signed by a major? partly. independence is very important, and embedded in the worldview and aesthetic choices of 'underground' artists. major record labels are concerned with producing marketable brands/products. the underground artist is concerned with creating art.
is it not identifying with certain markers that are more popularly understood and experienced as popular culture? yes.
what is the notion of non conformist music? music that does not conform and is unique (in the sense that everyone is unique) in it's execution, avoiding cliche and formulae, while pushing the boundaries of what has been done, musically, before it. it is a unique and very subjective (in the sense that 'rules' are made along the way) approach to making music.
what is it and how do we identify it? you can hear and feel the 'shock of the new' in it. it is also intensely aesthetic and erudite ('obsessed'), paying very close attention to style and form, while often divulging complex thought patterns and an introspective tone/uniquely subjective view of society/existence. an experience of it can be likened to how one can differentiate a film made by someone like Brett Ratner and Andrei Tarkovsky; or between what is regarded 'literature' and an English composition. this view is subjective of course and requires one to view it from certain context, with a particular worldview and perception of art.
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everybody knows deep down in their hearts what is underground and what is not underground. I never understood why we need other peoples definitions to know what underground is when we already know.
Skwatta Kamp - Khut n Joyn was an underground album. I think nobody can deny that. It had commercial success, songs like RAU RAU were on the radio, had a video, and i believe it sold relatively well.
Mkhukhu Funkshen on the other hand was a COMMERCIAL ALBUM. It was a GOOD ALBUM but it was not underground.
There. Not hard is it ?
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The question I'm bout to ask is one I usually try to avoid because I think that to a certain extent it's a waste of time tryna differentiate between under/overground, especially since there are is a vast range of views on the lines that separate the two 'types of hiphop', but for the purpose of this thread you have started, I would like you to define underground. Does a lack of commercial success make you underground? Or is the label tied to your subject matter/beat selection/etc? Or is it something else completely?
Does a lack of commercial success make you underground? underground artists are generally unsuccessful commercially, due to how their content, and also their approach to making music (i.e experimentation) are not conducive to the major record label agenda of packaging music into familiar and un-challenging product. this is a way for labels to to minimize risk in turning a profit in that it is meant to make the music appeal to the 'lowest common denominator' by discounting the unique aspects, which might only appeal to a niche with a certain worldview and taste, as opposed to the [more lucrative] majority. their [underground artists] worldviews are also mostly unable able to align themselves with the worldview of corporate record labels which are the gateway to commercial success. a lack of commercial success does not make an artist underground, but it is known to be typical of underground artists due to the things mentioned above, amongst others.
Or is the label tied to your subject matter/beat selection/etc? yes. major record labels have a say on the way you produce your music. they are creating a product and it is in their best interest to maintain the 'vision' they had when they signed you. this vision is usually very well thought out and mostly understood in commercial terms. major record labels are purposed with turning profit.
Or is it something else completely? i'm not sure. read the above post.
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anyway...back to the topic:
any of y'all check K-Dog's verse out?
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anyway...back to the topic:
any of y'all check K-Dog's verse out?
thanks for hooking it up.i'm gonna check it as soon as i get on a proper computer.
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everybody knows deep down in their hearts what is underground and what is not underground. I never understood why we need other peoples definitions to know what underground is when we already know.
...co-sign.
but on new projects though...
Soweto producer extraordinaire/ a**ylum Tribe member and Splash Jam host...Fullskillakilla (The Pest) is finally dropping his tape “Koncept Karnival” with featured artists...The Circle, Vikinduku, Torture and many more...tomorrow, 06 February 2010, at Splash Jam (Opp. Dube Station).
*60 bones a copy y'all...!
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And I take this opportunity to make known that I and a couple of friends are dropping something in March. The Project will be called "Obese Bananas - Urban Music for the Decent Listener." We doing touch ups now and might have to record a few more tracks.
Bukela esisikhala...
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My 2 cents:
1. co-sign wit MrC
2. On the joint I produced, k-dawg killed every1. Sori,bt thats just me.
3. If U nt knw by many and go 2 more cyphers and sell 4rm yo boot...jst to name significant few - U underground.
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everybody knows deep down in their hearts what is underground and what is not underground. I never understood why we need other peoples definitions to know what underground is when we already know.
Skwatta Kamp - Khut n Joyn was an underground album. I think nobody can deny that. It had commercial success, songs like RAU RAU were on the radio, had a video, and i believe it sold relatively well.
Mkhukhu Funkshen on the other hand was a COMMERCIAL ALBUM. It was a GOOD ALBUM but it was not underground.
There. Not hard is it ?
hey, and then? the tone?
this is a good example and thanks for that. just one more thing here, if skwatta made another of that particular album, directly following it (hypothetically, for all intents and these here purposes lets a**ume its doable), with great commercial success. would that still be viewed as underground, just with commercial success then? what im getting at is this, if you continue to create in the same vein, moving from a place of being identified in this way, but with greater 'above ground' success, perhaps without compromising that much on your artistic integrity - who are you then.
its easy to take in when its simply a matter of breaking through and being fresh with it, thats easy. but there tends to be this other stuff that comes through. thats why you'll have these kinds of questions.
also aint nothing wrong with continuously interrogating our understanding of these things. lets keep that open. the thing is this, i dont think its necessarily about wanting other peoples definitions, in substitute of our own, never that. its simply to try hook into the greater thought, coz now now we are coming from completely different places. your view may enhance or alert me to a blindspot i may have. and i dont always know bra, sometimes its all just so inconsistent that what is in my best interest, is to ask.
panic, sure okay. until i come up with another one. i hear you - ish. chuckle.
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My 2 cents:
1. co-sign wit MrC
2. On the joint I produced, k-dawg killed every1. Sori,bt thats just me.
3. If U nt knw by many and go 2 more cyphers and sell 4rm yo boot...jst to name significant few - U underground.
I'm sayin!!! Was tellin R-Senic the same thing. You should hear more of K-Dog/ see him perform. Rugged as can be! Still gonna try up a video of him spitting this one loooooooooooooooooooong but hilarious verse. Dude is crazy.
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My 2 cents:
1. co-sign wit MrC
2. On the joint I produced, k-dawg killed every1. Sori,bt thats just me.
3. If U nt knw by many and go 2 more cyphers and sell 4rm yo boot...jst to name significant few - U underground.
I'm sayin!!! Was tellin R-Senic the same thing. You should hear more of K-Dog/ see him perform. Rugged as can be! Still gonna try up a video of him spitting this one loooooooooooooooooooong but hilarious verse. Dude is crazy.
Paragon is the shit on the Blind track, taking nothing away from the guy spitin the second verse......"Le rap isdudla mang khuphuka it cannot breathe easy"
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My 2 cents:
1. co-sign wit MrC
2. On the joint I produced, k-dawg killed every1. Sori,bt thats just me.
3. If U nt knw by many and go 2 more cyphers and sell 4rm yo boot...jst to name significant few - U underground.
I'm sayin!!! Was tellin R-Senic the same thing. You should hear more of K-Dog/ see him perform. Rugged as can be! Still gonna try up a video of him spitting this one loooooooooooooooooooong but hilarious verse. Dude is crazy.
Paragon is the shit on the Blind track, taking nothing away from the guy spitin the second verse......"Le rap isdudla mang khuphuka it cannot breathe easy"
no doubt. I don't take anything away from the other dudes on the track. it's a dope joint period.
Here's a video/ joint from Seida Crook and The Beat'Oven:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RtSFjmU-uA
What y'all think?
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Yo I like it! He's got intelligent rhyme patterns, and some nice punchlines! His lines connect nicely! It's dope!
He sounds american though, people here in the states, would like this I think! I'm surprised kinda, I'm not too familiar with guys work, read he grew up in London or something, kind of expected more of a UK accent, but it's a dope track regardless, the video is nice too! I'm feeling this!
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My 2 cents:
1. co-sign wit MrC
2. On the joint I produced, k-dawg killed every1. Sori,bt thats just me.
3. If U nt knw by many and go 2 more cyphers and sell 4rm yo boot...jst to name significant few - U underground.
I'm sayin!!! Was tellin R-Senic the same thing. You should hear more of K-Dog/ see him perform. Rugged as can be! Still gonna try up a video of him spitting this one loooooooooooooooooooong but hilarious verse. Dude is crazy.
Paragon is the shit on the Blind track, taking nothing away from the guy spitin the second verse......"Le rap isdudla mang khuphuka it cannot breathe easy"
Whatever happened to Paragon from Tembisa? Dude was mad dope.
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Mothipa dude is from vaal he is dope
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You must also listen or ask someone to record it for you Umhlobo wenene late every friday and Saturday night called rapper mrapper lot of hungry kids there
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You must also listen or ask someone to record it for you Umhlobo wenene late every friday and Saturday night called rapper mrapper lot of hungry kids there
Umhlobo Wenene got a hip hop show? What's it called and what time is it on?
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My 2 cents:
1. co-sign wit MrC
2. On the joint I produced, k-dawg killed every1. Sori,bt thats just me.
3. If U nt knw by many and go 2 more cyphers and sell 4rm yo boot...jst to name significant few - U underground.
I'm sayin!!! Was tellin R-Senic the same thing. You should hear more of K-Dog/ see him perform. Rugged as can be! Still gonna try up a video of him spitting this one loooooooooooooooooooong but hilarious verse. Dude is crazy.
Paragon is the shit on the Blind track, taking nothing away from the guy spitin the second verse......"Le rap isdudla mang khuphuka it cannot breathe easy"
Whatever happened to Paragon from Tembisa? Dude was mad dope.
Dude is still mad dope. He dropped an album titled PPP (Power Pussy & Pistols) a few years back. Dope LP. Think he dropped another one after that, I know he was working on another one in like 2008. The 'Blind' track which he is featured on was recorded in November last year, I think, so dude clearly still has it in him. He still raps at the shows in the hood (Tembisa). I'll see if I can find PPP on my hard drive and up it here. Mixing/Mastering wasn't the best but there's some really dope tracks on that.
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Here's a video/ joint from Seida Crook and The Beat'Oven:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RtSFjmU-uA
What y'all think?
Dope shit!!!
Is that Ma-B from Dreima on the vid (witha shirt off smokin)? That Steve Biko tee caught my attention...anybody know where I can go cop me one?
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Whatever happened to Paragon from Tembisa? Dude was mad dope.
Dude is still mad dope. He dropped an album titled PPP (Power Pussy & Pistols) a few years back. Dope LP. Think he dropped another one after that, I know he was working on another one in like 2008. The 'Blind' track which he is featured on was recorded in November last year, I think, so dude clearly still has it in him. He still raps at the shows in the hood (Tembisa). I'll see if I can find PPP on my hard drive and up it here. Mixing/Mastering wasn't the best but there's some really dope tracks on that.
DO that!
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Whatever happened to Paragon from Tembisa? Dude was mad dope.
I'll see if I can find Paragon's PPP on my hard drive and up it here. Mixing/Mastering wasn't the best but there's some really dope tracks on that.
DO that!
So I don't have PPP anymore...musta never ripped it and I lost the CD a long time ago. R-Senic should have a copy and if not I'll try get it from Paragon during the weekend. I also can't seem to find the few songs I had from his album after PPP.
In the meantime here's a jingle I have that he recorded at Yfm back in the day when we used to hijack the Fresh n Thato breakfast show. It was one of my favourites from the bunch that we recorded there. Dude just stepped into studio, picked this beat as soon as he heard it, and started writing a verse. a few minutes later he's like "I'm ready". I couldn't hold back the laughter when he started singing at the beginning but it came out so fresh that I can't hate AT ALL. It was on heavy rotation from 6-9 every week day morning after that.
@ProVerb: you remember this?