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Hip Hop Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Naturelle on June 20, 2010, 02:40:09 PM
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Gender Woes
John Lennon has a song called “Woman is the nigger of the world” released in 1972. Looking around, things haven’t changed much.
Take this incident with a colleague at work a few weeks ago. I was at one end of the room and he wanted to say something to me. He motioned me with his head, tilting it to the side, meaning e tla kwano. I pretend not to notice that he was signalling to me. Why should I have to go to where he is, when he is the one who wants something from me? Why can’t he walk over to me? ...then without moving as little as an inch he whistled and added, hey S, tla hier!
I decided to walk out of the room fast as I could at that moment, else I would have ended up slapping him. I heard him giggling and calling me a feminist to the other colleagues left in the room.
In my experience both in personal life and at work, I find that generally most men have a very entitled attitude in the presence of women and when other men are bearing witness. I’m a man, you are a woman. Play your position. Dish out for me, clear up after me. You exist to serve and please me. You should be subservient to me. It's a given. No question.
I would like to understand where this lack of respect comes from. Why is it that men feel they may treat us and address us in any way they please? This particular colleague does this type of thing with all the women including and more senior personnel. I feel sorry for his girlfriend.
I used to date a guy who once said something along the lines of, “when you are around, I don’t worry about anything in the house. I know you’ve got it covered”
I guess he meant it as a compliment but the way it made me feel was nothing near flattered.
We women wear many hats and can brag about being able to juggle 10 things at once as if we related to the Octopus.
We multi-task happily taking chore after chore in our stride with the attitude of if I don’t do it, it won’t get done.
Now, I’m not saying all men sit back and read the paper while their ladies are barefoot and worrying about her late period in the kitchen. I know responsible men who go the extra mile to show their partner that they take equal responsibility for all aspects the relationship. However this isn’t the common scenario in most households.
I strongly believe that our roles as human beings are intrinsic by nature. Caveman provided and cave woman nurtured. I find that most men today perpetuate stereotypical gender roles to get away with doing very little/having less responsibility as a whole.
Women have had a raw deal for a while. Restricted negotiation powers (be it our demure physical stature, societal expectations..what have you) have meant we’ve had to accept that the enormous responsibility of taking care of the holistic needs family rests on us.
Women’s “emancipation “ did little to change this tipped scale. Economic factors, absent fathers, women’s lib gave us the opportunity to enter the professional working world and escape the boredom of the daily routine of house chores, soapies and gossip. We have been contributing to the household income but the task of making sure dinner is served and the children have what they need for school tomorrow still rests on us. Whether it is directly by us having to do it ourselves after a full day at work or making sure a cousin from the village or a helper is at hand to do it properly.
What am trying to say is, where are the good old family values on which we used to rely? No really...I would like some answers. What’s going on? Where do these perceptions stem from and why do we let them prevail?
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It's Sunday. Who's cooking lunch when you're on AG typing this long essay?
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It's Sunday. Who's cooking lunch when you're on AG typing this long essay?
tl tl tl
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You chose to let out your frustrations on the wrong day. The Sabbath.
Besides this was once brought up in the discussion of women in the workplace, here on this forum.
Surely you know the counter arguments as to why the attitudes to these views persist.
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I would like to hear these arguments that's why I asked. Send me the link to the thread you speak of, I missed it.
No day is the wrong day to express yourself.
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Yes please send the link, I also would love to read this.
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http://www.africasgateway.com/forums/index.php/topic,29622.0.html
This shldn't be escalaetd to form any feminist rant, or an unjust discussion on inequality.
It's been happening for ages and won't stop sooner.
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What am trying to say is, where are the good old family values on which we used to rely? No really...I would like some answers. What’s going on? Where do these perceptions stem from and why do we let them prevail?
I could ask you the same thing...
I've never heard my mom complain to my dad about dishes not being done or our luch boxes not being made...
Same with my grandma...
Same with my great grandma...
I dont get why you out here complaining about your role?
See this is why the family structure's been slowly colupsing over the past few years...women have adopted this "I work too & therefore I shouldnt be expected to cook or wash the dishes yada yada" attitude, fogeting that a man is a man and needs to be made feel like a man in his house, same with a woman...
Now I'm not saying that I'm not gon help out with the chores...But it should not be made my role to do the laundry, I'll do it if I want to do it...
and it shouldnt be your role to wake up to see where the noise in the back yard is commin from at midnight...
Its all about gender roles in the running of the household...If you dont like it...I suggest you become a nun.
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What am trying to say is, where are the good old family values on which we used to rely? No really...I would like some answers. What’s going on? Where do these perceptions stem from and why do we let them prevail?
I could ask you the same thing...
I've never heard my mom complain to my dad about dishes not being done or our luch boxes not being made...
Same with my grandma...
Same with my great grandma...
I dont get why you out here complaining about your role?
See this is why the family structure's been slowly colupsing over the past few years...women have adopted this "I work too & therefore I shouldnt be expected to cook or wash the dishes yada yada" attitude, fogeting that a man is a man and needs to be made feel like a man in his house, same with a woman...
Now I'm not saying that I'm not gon help out with the chores...But it should not be made my role to do the laundry, I'll do it if I want to do it...
and it shouldnt be your role to wake up to see where the noise in the back yard is commin from at midnight...
Its all about gender roles in the running of the household...If you dont like it...I suggest you become a nun.
lol...
I refuse to have roster for chores.
ALSO..when I get married or stay with a woman full time we won't hire a helper! the f*** for?
we won't stay in a pigsty....coz I am no pig so I will not let filth aumalate or wait on
you to wash dishes or clean shit ..but the minute you suggest we take turns doing your shit,
we gon have a problem!
We don't write rules we found women in the kitchen who the f*** are we to change
the tried and tested?
I KID I KID...I dunno man just I feel black females are just WAY to combatative esecially the "emancipated" generation..
these sisters refuse to be call harmless names..HONESTLY how is me saying "Sweets" to you derogetory..
I called these REALLY REALLY sweet girl "Sweets" and she expoded in my face and started disrespecting my geder!
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Bottom line, we need to play our positions in relationships.
Good luck to all you 'liberated' women who have hope in finding the 'ideal' man who is willing to share the womanly role. You have more luck in Europe finding one.
The fact is that no self respecting man will, pick a non-cooking, non-dish washing, non-house cleaning woman as a wife.
I find it strange how these liberated types feel it is only the men who expect them to be a certain way. In most cases, a man fears bringing a woman home because he fears what his mothers response to her 'liberal' views on relationships and her role as a woman are supposed to be.
No mother in her right mind would want a woman who doesnt cook, clean, and serve her son, to come into her home, so why in the world should a man settle for one?
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It's really painful when you finally wake up from your little girl dreams and realise the mountain on a woman's shoulders...that there is a predertermined role, with very fixed boundaries, but for some reason you arrive on this earth a unique entity with aspirations for life that you wish to self-construct.
Sadder still is that the only justification for it is, "things have always been done that way so hush".
Male priviledge is a hell of a drug...
In fact, its only when I denounced religion that I started seeing the flimsy fabric on which patriarchy is based. You niggas take this shit too far. There were systems before patriarchy. It's like someone telling you only capitalism will work or white priviledge is how its always been. I'm not a feminist (maybe a womanist) but I hate to see women being silenced like we have to die inside to fit into the world as is. We couldn't exist without each other and I value and honour men, I deserve the same courtesy. That simply means, not discarding my concerns based on a fear that I'm trying to keep you from something. I understand things have to get done, I'm not naive. Take me as an individual and give me space to grow and reason.
This generation of women thinking differently came about before the men were born to be a companion to them. You can only alter a grown man's views so far. That's why i'd rather he at least knows my thoughts and does what he can. Truth is, even if he wanted to change, the world would not support him.
I'm rambling...
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look! me? i have one thing to say...
i dont ever wanna hear the phrases "you are not man enough", "what kind of man are u", "i need a real man" bla bla bla
if ur not gonna do your womanly part, cos we equal innit, if i can wash dishes, you can go check the noises in the back yard or trim the lawn. if we gon go equal , let it be across the board.
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look! me? i have one thing to say...
i dont ever wanna hear the phrases "you are not man enough", "what kind of man are u", "i need a real man" bla bla bla
if ur not gonna do your womanly part, cos we equal innit, if i can wash dishes, you can go check the noises in the back yard or trim the lawn. if we gon go equal , let it be across the board.
Word!!
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look! me? i have one thing to say...
i dont ever wanna hear the phrases "you are not man enough", "what kind of man are u", "i need a real man" bla bla bla
if ur not gonna do your womanly part, cos we equal innit, if i can wash dishes, you can go check the noises in the back yard or trim the lawn. if we gon go equal , let it be across the board.
All true. But its bigger than that. Obviously when a system changes, it begins with the altering of the mindsets of all concerned...
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look! me? i have one thing to say...
i dont ever wanna hear the phrases "you are not man enough", "what kind of man are u", "i need a real man" bla bla bla
if ur not gonna do your womanly part, cos we equal innit, if i can wash dishes, you can go check the noises in the back yard or trim the lawn. if we gon go equal , let it be across the board.
I couldn't have put it better than this.
But yes, responsibilities need to be share accordingly but still lets be real, when all work is divided, there are some things that are better suited for certain genders depending on their abilities to carry out the tasks. Same applies to societal roles. There are some things that are better suited for certain genders.
The liberal woman shit get taken too far most of the time.
@Nat
about your colleague. if you cant deal with him, keep ignoring him or take it up with your manager. if that doesnt help, take it to CCMA.
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look! me? i have one thing to say...
i dont ever wanna hear the phrases "you are not man enough", "what kind of man are u", "i need a real man" bla bla bla
if ur not gonna do your womanly part, cos we equal innit, if i can wash dishes, you can go check the noises in the back yard or trim the lawn. if we gon go equal , let it be across the board.
All true. But its bigger than that. Obviously when a system changes, it begins with the altering of the mindsets of all concerned...
I agree with this too, e.g living in a flat. almost every domestic task in a flat is one perceived as a female responsibility so man take advantage and do nothing but eat, make a mess, get laid and sleep.
Man must also realise that these things should no longer be look at this way too in certain situations.
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this isn't rocket science, there is nothing to be philosophical about, we are complicating it with big, complex ramblings...
if a man wants a "woman" (after he defines what a woman in his view is to her) he must also be subjected to being a "man" (according to her definition) then you carry on with life.
full stop.
the rest that dont want to define anything must find a middle ground (negotiate).
this new world of ours is all about negotiating.
f***, even marriage is a negotiation
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Bottom line, we need to play our positions in relationships.
Good luck to all you 'liberated' women who have hope in finding the 'ideal' man who is willing to share the womanly role. You have more luck in Europe finding one.
The fact is that no self respecting man will, pick a non-cooking, non-dish washing, non-house cleaning woman as a wife.
I find it strange how these liberated types feel it is only the men who expect them to be a certain way. In most cases, a man fears bringing a woman home because he fears what his mothers response to her 'liberal' views on relationships and her role as a woman are supposed to be.
No mother in her right mind would want a woman who doesnt cook, clean, and serve her son, to come into her home, so why in the world should a man settle for one?
i couldn't have put it better myself.....