Post by: FuckYou on October 07, 2004, 06:34:00 PM
Theses days "Hip Hop" = Rap
For those who dont know...Rap is the youngest member of the Hip Hop Fam!
Yet, its treated as the only Element...whats da deal??
And Yes, i am a Graff Riter!
Post by: briCK on October 07, 2004, 06:43:00 PM
awareness of the art has increased...heads nowadays is more aware...so graff is getting more popular than mcing in the J..so no i do not belive graff is dead..
Post by: FuckYou on October 07, 2004, 06:48:00 PM
Post by: FuckYou on October 07, 2004, 06:50:00 PM
Post by: Dpleezy on October 07, 2004, 06:58:00 PM
to me, someone like Banksy kills all this cartoon old-skool wild style shit i see everywhere.
Post by: briCK on October 07, 2004, 07:03:00 PM
is graff in CPT dying..i only ask this coz you frm the cape and you asked the question?
Post by: Dpleezy on October 07, 2004, 07:05:00 PM
Post by: FuckYou on October 07, 2004, 07:05:00 PM
How can you say graff hasnt evolved, i mean thats like saying every riter for the past 15 years hasnt done shit, they havnt gottn better in fact what ure saying is that they have gottn worst......
Bansky is tight, but...some even believe that stencils is graff....
Imagine i said....hmm,..rap hasnt gottn any better in th past 10 years, shit i remember when i first heard public enermy, that was ill, there hasnt been anything better..well maybe benefit..
Post by: Dpleezy on October 07, 2004, 07:30:00 PM
graff hasn´t evolved in the last 17 years,,, that´s exactly what i am saying. let me be more precise,,, spraycan art hasn´t progressed,,, i love what cats are doing with stencils and stickers, so if you count that as graff, then i take it back.
graff ´artists´ that are spraying walls and trains now are just doing the same shit that was revolutionary 20 years ago,,, but that was 20 years ago,,, looks kind of played out now don´t you think?
Post by: FuckYou on October 07, 2004, 07:39:00 PM
Graff is about elevating your letters and your letter styles, and if ure not a graff writer then this concept will probably be hard for you to understand...
You gotta look beyond pretty colours and smart characters, look at the actuall letters, and try to see/figure out what the artist has done and what he is trying to do. Then you will begin to understand graffiti.
Its not just about who can paint the most trains and do the worst tags, theres actual a lot of time and thought put into every piece.....go check out a Kem5 piece or check out Totem2.com and if you still dont understand i dont think you ever will!
Post by: Dpleezy on October 07, 2004, 07:49:00 PM
i´m not a writer now.
i think i am quite able to understand the basics of typography, whether on walls or in books.
spraycan art ain´t advanced in 17 years.
but hey,,, i´m always keen to see new shit. it´s quite possible i´ve missed some revolutionary pieces.
Post by: FuckYou on October 07, 2004, 08:05:00 PM
You say what you say as if its factual information, when its more opinion then fact. You say that you did graffiti back then, round about the same time you were liking that book, you ever stop an think that perhaps you are still living in the past, and find it hard to accept that people, and graff have moved on..even progressed!??
Post by: DJ_Nastie_Ed on October 07, 2004, 08:16:00 PM
I got into hip-hop as a writer 8 years ago. N shit doesn´t stay the same.
The only way hip-hop as a culture can stay alive is to keep on reinventing itself and to innovate. Alot of people don´t realise that shit - especially the ´REAL´ ´HARDCORE´ "UNDERGROUND´ cats who just wanna keep shit stagnant. and the same - they diss anything that deviates from what they consider ´the true´ form.
If the ´creators´ of hip-hop had had the same attitude... Hip-hop would never have come to be... Who would EVER have thought that spraying little letters on a wall, that wiggling a record, that ´experimenting´ with dance moves, that ´talking´ over music could have evolved to the extent it has...to create whole new art-froms.
This INNOVATION is the true essenz of hip-hop. what started with blockparties and using two copies of the same record to ´loop´ the instrumental break in the middle of a record became a worldwide phenomenon.
My point is: people who DISS new things (translate: ´those cats who just hate on experimentation and shit because it is not what they are used to´) are doing the exact OPPOSITE of what the true spirit of hip-hop should have taught you.
As such, in order for hip-hop (or whatever it is to be called in the future) to stay alive it has to KEEP REINVENTING ITSELF and formulate NEW things and new ways of expression.... otherwise it will wither and die.
Hence... when I see people diss new thing like STENCILS for example it pissed me off.... who are you to judge wether or not something new is tight and is true... by dissing it you are doing the same thing that some 60 year old conservative f*** is doing when he says that ´rapping is not singing´.
Move with the times... I just saw a book on stencils (a la spraycan art (which i own btw :)) that blew my f***´n mind.... people are doing CRAAAAAAZY shit with stenclis..... intricate ´stencil´ pieces that span 20 metres - allowing for ALOT more detailed expression. etc.
Etc... My advice: EMBRACE new things and innovate .... Beatboxing, Stencils, whatever whatever.... We gotta keep shit moving - otherwise hip-hop will wither die - be left behind and be forgotten like any other sub-culture that has existed. - though hip-hop should be more than that.
As to Graffiti not having changed:
Dplanet - you have no idea how far graffiti has come.... you should pilgrim to europe sometime... countries like Germany, Switzerland and France...
There are SO many different styles new innovations etc. Just look at the style of lettering that was done back then and is being done now.
I advice you to do a search for these twins called ´Os Gemeos´ - writers who do these elabourate, intricate pieces - blows my f***´n mind - N they lip it into a whole new direction.
Post by: FuckYou on October 07, 2004, 08:26:00 PM
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I dont know if i didnt get out what i wanted to say, or if you just read it wrong, i said some even consider stencils graff, i never said i didnt see it as part of graff. I did say bansky was tight, which would mean that im acknowledging his skills, which to me would me i accept stencils as part of graff......or atleast respect it!
Post by: SOYA DADDY on October 07, 2004, 09:11:00 PM
graff dead...i think it sucks that everyone is a rapper and that most folks forget that bboys and graff came ages before mceeing did.
graff is a really complex art, infact it holds as much weight as any van gough piece does, the symetry and colour is too compelling.
its safe to say that graff is dead in SA..everywhere else...alive and oing strong, ever seen the london scene??
f***YOU...this kid has skillz.word!
Post by: SOYA DADDY on October 07, 2004, 09:22:00 PM
![]("http://www.graffiti.org/boston/zone-kem-prisco_lc_12-16-02.jpg")
Post by: Dpleezy on October 08, 2004, 01:00:00 AM
That piece that you posted Space, could have been done in 1985 (maybe it was). The most amazing thing about graffiti when it first started was the decontextualisation of the image into the urban space. The technical ability of graff writers was no greater (or worse) than a lot of comic book artists. 20 years later, writing your name on a wall has lost its impact. It just looks like the set of a coca cola advert. played out. There is no wit, no message,,, just the buzz of doing something slightly illegal and ´underground´. That´s why I prefer banksy,,, it´s subversive, intelligent, witty, entertaining,,, not just childish visual masturbation. I also prefer the Northern Ireland Conflict Murals,, that shit is dope.
Observatory has become full of legal graffiti,,, it would be more subversive to go around painting over that shit with a white roller.
Please point me to any spraycan art that proves me wrong,, i´d love to see it.
Post by: FuckYou on October 08, 2004, 03:46:00 PM
Post by: FuckYou on October 08, 2004, 03:48:00 PM
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Oh, i almost forgot, those pieces were recently, i was there when they painted it!
Post by: Dpleezy on October 08, 2004, 03:53:00 PM
but don´t get me wrong,,, i still love graff. i just think that it has lost some of it´s relevance. I mean, it started as an expression of creativity to brighten up the grim urban wastelands of the bronx etc,,, now middle-cla** suburban kids are spraying up people´s houses in Obz. Something not quite right there.
Post by: VirginPussy on October 08, 2004, 05:28:00 PM
Post by: FuckYou on October 08, 2004, 05:42:00 PM
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Do you mean rich white kids, from ....Constantia....??? :-]
Post by: Dpleezy on October 08, 2004, 05:57:00 PM
Post by: AnonymisNinja on October 22, 2004, 08:28:00 PM
On the other hand with regards to not evolving-have you heard of dudes like MACCLAIM CREW(Ta**O,KIAM77 etc etc)from europe who are taking the art side of graffiti to another level.And then theres also NT crew who are taking it in their own direction where style is concerned.they not just recreating the wildstyle that you have all seen that come out of NYC.on top of that they still continue to bomb trains and wall fukt on their side of the world.
Im not a fan of most of the european work as i prefer the rawness of the OLD SCHOOL but i have to admit that they are taking it to another level.What would you r definition of THE EVOLUTION OF GRAFFITI be anyways?just out of curiosity...
also with regards to kids f***ing up observatory,thats what graffiti is.with everything you get the rough with the smooth and all those mad meaningful etc etc pieces you see in books and magazines started with a scribble on a white wall.......and graffiti like that will never die
Post by: AnonymisNinja on October 22, 2004, 08:42:00 PM
Post by: AnonymisNinja on October 22, 2004, 08:49:00 PM
Post by: Nar8iv on October 26, 2005, 04:49:32 PM
the article labelled them graffiti "artists".
the "Blits" which "metrofail" releases as well labels anybody who has scribbled letters on a train surface "graffiti artists" whether the writing says "BALLAS VANNIE KRAAIBAK WAS HIER 27 HOSH" or is a well rendered DEK , TOE or ZEBO.
Once the discrepency between the two is clarified , maybe then hiphop can move on from fights about where graffiti belongs.
I'm connected to afew taggers / bombers....so I respect putting your label somewhere - but what destroys the ART is that so many shoddy peices are left on walls / so many badly-outlined /badly coloured peices line walls....and the same "ARTISTS" work stays a@ the same level for 2years.
Put effort into your work.
A tag/peice is a manifestation of a personal message.....if our message is poorly articulated then it will be seen as DEAD.
Post by: Dpleezy on October 26, 2005, 06:44:07 PM
i got nothing against people writing on walls,,, what i object to is when it is sanitised and legalised,,, it becomes another form of "urban" cooption, losing all it's subversive power.
that's why banksy kills it for me,,, everything he does makes you think. it's not just decoration.
Post by: jahfish on November 02, 2005, 12:03:17 AM
there's plenty of grafs and street art goin on here .... some japanese guy doin crazy typos, and a crew called 1up bombing the whole city, u see their (always nice) pieces all around
check that link:
http://flickr.com/photos/search/tags:streetart%2Cberlin/tagmode:all/
i think that graffitti was too much of a drawer "labeled hiphop" ... nowadays it has more freedom again and is able to be more creative again .... several techniques are "politically correct" again ... while the spraycan was the only tool supposed to be used for a while ...
anyway, i think graffitti has existed before the spraycan, through the latino's murals, through the "tagging" of russian soldiers when arriving in berlin at the reichstag, or just the several messages on walls you'll find all around the globe!
back in the 70ies/80ies, it was only a few creative heads freakin out with colours and havin some crazy thoughts and philosophies behind their thing ... and it was something rare and unique ...
then in between u had tagging which took the artform to a form of vandalism .... plus tons of people following trends and thinking graffitti will make them hiphop.
and i think that now something really interesting can come out of all this.
especially street art with all those messages will bring a new importance to the content.
back then it was all about decrypting names .....now u have lots of funny messages that u can laugh about, serious thoughts and ideas to pick up, even intersting news or beautifull pictures ..... all this on the walls around the block ....
hey D, i like to live in the old world too ... but the vibe of the new worlds rebels is hot!
i see kids havin their own little store with 20. i see exhibitions every month ...
if there is any graf heads reading, check out the following website and get in touch with adrian. he's one of the main figures in the berlin/german-graf-scene and organising this exhibition every year and more ... http://backjumps.org/
Post by: Dpleezy on November 02, 2005, 09:25:49 AM
check out my man BASCHZ (http://www.baschz.com/) in Holland. Very cool shit...
Post by: jahfish on November 03, 2005, 12:02:53 PM
i see graffitti rather as a way of expressing yourself ... no matter if u spray or paint ur pic or ur message.
the (french speaking) board members might remember the film "la haine" where they show a poster saying "le monde est à vous" (the world is yours) and they sprayed over the "v", so it says "le monde est à Nous" (the world is ours). to me, this is allready graffitti.
don't forget that graffitti is a part of hiphop, and hiphop is about uniting things, not separating them into different drawers ...
Post by: jahfish on November 03, 2005, 12:19:19 PM
and because of the ma** of mediocre information from the media, u tend to miss the good cats. how often do you really find the right search result on googles first page? i tend to find lots of stupid stuff before i get valuable search results ... the world is filled with garbage, no matter if its online or offline.
but we have these boards here to point out the good stuff! ;)
http://www.flickr.com is a pretty good resource for actual photos ... just search for tags and u usually get lots of results. also, lots of artists have their own page and post a multitude of pics from all around the world. go check it out and tryout!
Post by: DJ_Nastie_Ed on November 03, 2005, 03:06:16 PM
undoubtedly one of my favourite movies.
Reccommend every1 to get their hands on it if possible