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Producers - Discussion / Re: Thir[13]teen - Postmodern Innovations
« on: October 29, 2009, 11:34:16 PM »
id just like to add my name to your bulging list of fans. keep going man.

theres music and there is beauty there.

keep going.

General Discussion / Re: good hair
« on: October 28, 2009, 02:00:12 AM »
deacon, i find your signature upsetting my mans.

makes this place uncomfortable for me.

General Discussion / Re: Good Hair??
« on: October 28, 2009, 01:55:36 AM »
Quote from: Sensai_Tate
Still no word fromthe ladies huh?...

sorry babes. loss of focus. the intention was there. it was just interesting to listen to the fellas for a while.

you now what. ive done it all. ive seriously just done it all. its been relaxed. coloured. s curl. no hair completly. relax and bob cut. braids. weave. curly weave. straight weave. and a great deal of experience its gained me. for myself. in my own little life on this particular topic.

and my thoughts. its just not good enough to base judgements of people based on thier hair. it can infact be a big mistake. where ive been. no hair has been the best and true reflection of ones character. take me for instance. i know that there was a time when i was not good enough for the scene coz i was the girl who at some point did not fit the bill. that the changes i was going through as person would determine who and what i am intrinsically. i look back using myself as the yardstick and say that now. ill tell you its nonsensical.

it may be about conditioning but not completely. yes some people may be drawn to long hair because its all they see. all they are fed through media. and thus what they a**ume to be the acceptable codes of beauty in society. so yes the pressure is there. with the a**umption that men like us light and thin and with long manageable hair. and not just beauty seemingly we are also conditioned into believing that certain hairstyles immediately allude to certain personality traits.

but in some cases people have choices. and people want to experience different aspects of themselves at different points in their lives. that to me is the bottom line. some choose may choose consistency and some may choose change. its only what people choose for themselves. and the motivations themselves differ. i do not believe it ALWAYS necessarily makes one girl better than the next. i think thats silly. and its limited. and thats the only angle i view it from in terms of how brothers relate to us in that regard. but then again people have preferences and they have a right to that. a beautiful girl is cool. with some kind of a hairstyle. she may be thin. she may not be. the mind. there is a mind aswell there. and i also feel that it would do a great deal towards women unfolding if our men encouraged that aspect of us. so that it could be a relevant part of who we are. to actually engage with the spirit and the mind. the most important question for me. is what are you dealing with. who is that person. i belive that is the challenge our times brings to us. to start choosing for ourselves over and above what we know. what our friends thinks is cool. what our clique thinks. what the magazines think (hey look. its nice to page through glossies and see pretty thing. and choose which ones appeal to me most and why actually). if we are to trully transcend then its in the little things. everyday. every single day. make your choice. just know why athst all. we are here to live and experience ourselves through our own eyes. as we wish.

my hair is natural now. and i love and appreciate it most deeply. i adore it. and im proud of it. nurture it. but i got here because it is what i wanted for myself at a particular moment in my life. and it enriches me. is a part of me. and it teaches me too. grounds me. i have found a spiritual wholeness now.
i definetly think a lot more could be done to encourage a love of natural hair. as a lifestyle choice. just so people see it as a choice thats okay and beautiful and worth making. but it is not the be all end all.

...i am not my hair. i am not your expectations. no...

AMEN!!!! Because I co-sign you on toooooooooooooooooooo many levels.  I stopped weaving my hair over 4-5 years back because I believed it immediately placed me in the superficial box which I have always tried to not not a**ociate myself with.  but you know what thats bull dust!  but a question thrown back at you, should this not also apply also with the style of clothes we choose to wear, like Evisu jeans vs brown's & greens earth colours? this thrown back at me? sorry ms deane i hadnt seen this til now babes. didnt realise we were in conversation somewhat.

what you wear?! ag man who cares babes. a person should wear whatever they want. we just need to stop thinking outwardly symbols are the be all end all in terms of constituting who you are. the end. its just not enough. its a flexible part of. not all. wearing browns and greens doesnt make you any more of anything as is so for your choice of jeans. i mean really. i guess in my personal opinion, when i was younger i went through the phase of thinking that, because of people, spaces etc etc you know the deal. but i realise now that, actually, you could spend your whole life trying and STILL be confused into boxes that have nothing to do with you. so you may aswell just do yourself the favour and get on with it from the get go. people grow into themselves in different ways. at different times aswell. the thing is though, even with choice, dont get stuck into it. its all just a fluid experiencing, trying, changing, be-ing. i just think maybe really the most important aspect always, is the why. you choose. the question is why. what informs it all and why. what choice are you making, why, does it sit with you, why. are you aware of the choices you are making, are they just statements, attempts at something. you just get to the point where you realise it doesnt actually matter hey. really in the bigger scheme of things, its who you are, its who you are.

turns out its not that serious and we are of that 'complex simplicity' (a realisation that could have saved us a whooole lot of trouble in our youth, im telling you!)

growing up is the shyt.

Hot Traxxx / Re: DODGO DELUXO (the never say die testimonies)
« on: October 26, 2009, 03:24:09 PM »
...and one for the dodgy boys.

jesse mccartney - leavin. ten points for attempting his coup. one for him shame.
...dont stress, dont stress, just tell him to the left, left, left...


jay sean - maybe.

...beep beep, oh look now there goes my phone...

hes always connected on line, hoping you check his profile.


Politics / Re: and the message is LOVE
« on: October 25, 2009, 08:54:30 PM »

Politics / Re: and the message is LOVE
« on: October 24, 2009, 11:07:39 PM »
oh no ways you guys. what. wow.

here i am bringing my begging bowl to soul amazin' and then im like no ways. wow. aawww man. thank you. i even forgot about this. im like shaking my head. then there was this day also then. hey crazy business. there was this day. im like no ways. and i am reminded.

QuinDEah i believe ill hold you to that.

thank YOU for giving it meaning then you know. thank YOU. youve just made it worth it. you take care.


...and the message IS...yes.

Chief Rocka - Open Mic / Re: poets corner 14 ( relapses or corpses)
« on: October 13, 2009, 11:22:36 AM »
some people

some people fleeing some other people.
in some country under the sun
and some clouds.

they leave behind some of their everything,
sown fields, some chickens, dogs,
mirrors in which fire now sees itself reflected.

on their backs are pitchers and bundles,
the emptier, the heavier from one day to the next.

taking place stealthily is somebody's stopping,
and in the commotion, somebody's bread somebody's snatching
and a dead child somebody's shaking.

in front of them some still not the right way,
nor the bridge that should be
over a river strangely rosy.
around them, some gunfire, at times closer, at times further off,
and, above, a plane circling somewhat.

some invisibility would come in handy,
some grayish stoniness,
or even better, non-being
for a little or a long while.

something else is yet to happen, only where and what?
someone will heed toward them, only when and who,
in how many shapes and with what intentions?
given a choice,
maybe he will choose not to be the enemy and
leave them with some kind of life.

General Discussion / Re: Wine Thread:Four Cousins
« on: October 07, 2009, 03:06:42 PM »
i think i should resurrect that "drunk dialing" thread for stories like these ha ha

...maybe you should. but i see youve already touched on it further along. this thread just gave you a gap. 'wine thread: four cousins'. not so much for wine lovers but for when it all goes awry. four cousins represents exactly that. it gets late quick. you can see it, it sets the whole scene. how end of the month comes way too early. dodgy plans for the young and restless must and do get made. and then its 4 am (you should ask p!nk 'i dont wanna be that call at 4 'o clock in the morning'). and then youre on your phone. calling someone you shouldnt. and then its the morning after...when you dont remember what you said :D

yes, wine thread: four cousins.


salute baldi.

The sad reality is that we (our generation of women ) were taught to be "independent women" by people who knew nothing of it. Our mother weren't these so called independent women so how they possibly know how to groom any. Our mothers force us to go to school and home schooling took the back leg. Yes, we don't cook half as well as our mothers because it was never a priority. The problem is that the same mothers who taught us to be "independent women" are the same people who then turned around and taught their sons that the woman's roll is to be in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant oh wait, she also needs to make her own money.

Men are so quick to complain when they're not getting a** anymore as though we don't like sex. Put yourself in a womans position. You go to work, deal with a lot of shit at office. Then come home to a man who, even though he's been home for the past three hours, is waiting on you to cook, wash the kids, help with home work and clean up and as if that's not enough still have the energy to lay on my back while you pounce on me all night. NO FREAKING WAYS. We don't use sex as a reward but if I came home and dinner was prepared,we're gonna have sex that night and not because I'm rewarding you for a job well done but because I actually have the energy to do so.

salute panic.

you don't have to do shit for me and i don't have to do shit for you. everything is done instead out of want. that's how i keeps it. so Deac as much as i see where you're coming from i don't agree necessarily because it re-inforces an ideal i don't believe in. it's not anyone's job to do anything in a relationship unless you want it that way.

and i don't.

id add some things in there but maybe what all i want to share is, just how much ive been coming across something thats made me sit down and like wonder. i think its just with the changes that take place with time and certain things being more prominent now, coming to the fore but some relationships have always molded themselves around individuals and not societal expectations.

some families have been working in ways we are still grappling with now. angelina n sithebe is a writer who shares of how when she was growing up, her father raised six children as a stay at home dad. combed their hair, washed dishes and swept the stoep as she puts it. took them to the clinic, the zoo, movies, did the story telling. the mother was the breadwinner and he, the primary caretaker. i seem to be coming across quite a few of these stories. this isnt something new. in the same way women can choose to embody it all or parts.

so yes, no one is confined to anything. no one has to anything. be with who you want to be with, in the way you want to be with them. and then find your own rhythm of the give and take. as two individuals meeting and sharing. it may be things for some, for others it may not. you find your way. what is important is nurturing the ability to appreciate and be mindful of your partner. i think thats the most significant aspect of all this. i think this is what people are looking for, want.

if you choose carefully and choose properly, it will be someone who you 'want to' for. and who can flow right back to you.     

Humour / Jokes / Re: Lurking in the back
« on: October 05, 2009, 12:39:38 PM »
you are so wrong :D

Humour / Jokes / Re: Lurking in the back
« on: October 05, 2009, 12:27:14 PM »
uhm nooooo deac-on-frost...

maybe shes actually thinking look at these baffoons. because look what happened to them then hey. look where they ended up. bottoms up, here nogal. i mean really. they best better have been aiming for this kind of explosure in the first place, and not just having a little 'harmless' fun. because otherwise then, it got late for them :D

no maybe thooose chicks stay losing bra.

Hip Hop Events / Re: Bhlakroze takes Silver Medal
« on: September 23, 2009, 12:06:01 PM »
i would just like to say thank you to you for the support. i appreciate it. unexpected and hard won. it was certainly a new frontier for me, a somewhere else that had not yet been experienced within. found. and that was the journey.

sometimes you will take the long way round.

i thank you for your blessings.

...mayihlome ihlasele...

Politics / [WO(MEN)]
« on: August 09, 2009, 04:15:50 PM »
this year, i am not celebrating.

i am reflecting.

i have been a part of this community for a while now. weíve watched people come and go. weíve come and gone ourselves. weíve grown and changed and stayed the same. weíve said some things and left many more unsaid. weíve joked, weíve disagreed, weíve interrogated and weíve a**umed too. i just felt compelled to capture this thought in this moment, to think about it and put it out there - for we too are just pa**ing through. you can spend all your time around people and never know who they are and they never knowing what you're about too.
it may not make sense to some, may bore some, may go ignored by others, may be ridiculed and taken for granted. this might not be the place. i suspect it may unravel long but then let it be for who it is for. it may be that it might not resonate today but maybe one day. and we were here. came through this way.

it looks easy, but it's not. it's nothing new, nothing not being said, hasn't been said before, nothing life-shattering, ground-breaking, earth-tilting, but it is what it is. i do not imagine saying anything you do not already know. it wont be perfect but that was never the intent. i just wanted to say something. something a little more than happy womens day, i've decided it makes no sense to me. happy womens day. what does that mean. to me, here, right now, today. tomorrow. next month. what does it mean to the people around me. what does it mean to the men in my life.
the words have been stuck. any day about women celebrating themselves is nothing new to me. infact i think i may have bordered on simply finding it depressing this year, like what exactly is the point of all this. really. and i realised that i want more. i want more than to celebrate, i want to feel that the world is really beginning to listen. that WE are beginning to truly listen to each other, not fearfully, not defensively but in willingness and love. i want more of an i feel it in my life kind of change. i want change. i want us to never tire. 

i write as a young black woman in south africa. i cannot write on behalf of or for anyone else and neither would i want to. i write also a particular girl, shaped by own life circumstances, experiences and observations. i write from my own consistently challenged perspectives and frames of references. perhaps a hastily stitched up pastiche of things i do often wish i could say, things i've tried to say, wish could be said, wish there was space for beyond the corners of libraries and buried in offerings of sound by some other. if it could just reach but one person, one. something she wanted to say, has long been trying to say, couldnít say, didnít say, never says, wishes she could say. something you never hear. i know nothing, only that i try.
as i write this i move from the position that to be for, does not always necessarily equate into being against. these are words shared in the spirit of all. please feel free, take it or leave it. i'm just saying something. the kind of something i too often need to see. i speak because i'm listening.

it is my feeling that along with the general societal fascination with all things non-stop surface, the way we engage with women's day may yet fall prey to the kind of commercialisation and celebration that may bgein to lack in the ability to truly reflect and facilitate the kinds of conversations we are sorely in need of. they are not readily available, they so often have to be sought. that maybe we are missing the point on some fronts. that maybe we are seeing celebrations and not hearing the words, somewhere quiet. where it strikes, deep.
it is my feeling that to think that the sum total of this pause we take, is about pay cheques and seats of position, is mistaken. lets leave the boardrooms for a second and come home. come home to the things that sit inside of us, lets come back to our house parties, our clubs, our schools, our missions and hustles, our day to day relationships. its about a little more than rearranging gla** ceilings. i would like to say that i think it moves beyond even rape, emotional abuse, physical abuse, neglect, hate, denial. the symptoms. it is about how we are living, we will find it where we are relating in our most minute, intimate and cloaked moments. who we are when no one is looking. it is my feeling that we as women are miserable. in ways we do not even remember how to give voice to, should we be stupid enough to do so even when we can. with the nature of things moving and twisting merging we, along with the greater humanity of men, are facing some other kinds of demands on our being. we face challenges the same and perhaps some beyond of those who before us came. i canít multitask anyway, but i have thoughts for the juggling women are doing, have been doing for years. quietly doing what needs to be done. and still wearing the faces of shame.

when we can collectively take responsibility then maybe we will be closer. and closer only to that place where we can start to talk as men and women. honestly, its enough to weaken the bravest of hearts. iím not sure if we have even begun to wrap our heads around that. and there are various factors to take into consideration, spatially, culturally, that influence our ability or inability to do so. most are not of our making but it is such a vast inheritance isnít it - what is ours and what isnít. but here we are. aware of the challenges and yet you can pay attention for as long as you like and still be left wondering, whether there truly is any hope for us. i want to write this without having to lean on the many issues that can be tied in. i want to write it personally. because sometimes i just feel like for all their good intents, facts and figures can obscure. sometimes they donít make it you. when its precisely about a me and a you. the us that shows face everywhere. the issues are personal.
then maybe we can drop the burdens of big concepts, of being overwhelmed. and start where we are, taking responsibility with whom we are with, as who we are, with what we have. this about finding the words to find each other in the madness. enough already of it. there are too many stories not abating, gathering speed, only prettier today. the greater issues ARE personal.
we say we are here and yet, i have witnessed, i have experienced that we are a society that punishes bold women. we punish women who dare to try and be complete. if they do not adhere to the plans, ways of behaving that may not be quite working as well anymore but refuse to morph, that don't benefit them in the first place, then we ostracize them, we call them names, we make them pay in some way. are we not silencing them then, is that not what we are doing.
what we need are men who understand that my being does not take away from yours. mine is mine, of what my life wants of me, requires of me. the yin of yang. where you can, help us love ourselves instead, and we will love you. nurture, not what i should be and probably can never be, but what am in all its glory.
a lot of these shifts are happening and we are all caught trying to make sense of them and ourselves within them. that is nothing particular to any one person. where we are all there, trying, trying to be, in the mess of people losing respect for each other and in societies losing respect for themselves. 

i am going to grossly generalise and say that women are for the most part silently miserable. women are miserable. they are miserable in their high powered jobs, miserable in their happy relationships, women are miserable in their cute dress ups. they are miserable in front of their mirrors, in their homes. theyíre miserable in bed. miserable walking down the streets. miserable at cocktails bar smiling at the stranger making eyes at them and miserable in their friendships. so compromised, so diminished in their individual persons, women can barely talk to each other. miserable on the covers of glossy magazines. miserable. bitter, broken and blamed. they are miserable getting paid. miserable in their advancements, their joys. in their pleasing. in their dissent. miserable in their countless really so unnecessary unending diets (trying again to be less), miserable making it look good and look easy. miserable speaking and in silence. miserable throwing plates and smiling. miserable wanting to be more but going about it the way of being less, miserable in their stilettos and kicks. finding numbers in pockets, not being able to insist on partners wearing condoms. miserable seen. we have perfected the art of being unsatisfied. no matter what we can do. as have lots or as nots.

and so this is what i want to say. i am no man and i am not your lover. not even your maybe either. but perhaps in the barrage of the everything else, it is not said enough, doesnít matter where it comes from:
there is nothing to feel small about in your hips. in your thighs. the size of your bum. your height. your skin tone. the way you speak. the length of your hair. your education. in the you you are struggling to be. there is nothing small there. there are just opinions, preferences and (mis)perceptions. and everybody will at some point or other in their lives arrive to someone, something, some place, some moment at some time. and there you are meant to be. its always all just a matter of time.
the world beats us up, as women, in so many ways, this general all pervasive sense, this need, to be herded into some other, but the saddest of all is how we beat ourselves up for it then too. nobody is perfect and no ones life is perfect. none of that please. it is only the way of each story, its own way. you are you, as you are going where you are going. we will be 47 one day and we wont give a shit. 47 and still probably trying to figure it all out. or even worse, 47 and only then realising how you were doing just fine then. itís the truth, its for real, you have heard it before but its for real. and so many things we will wish we had laughed off. seasons they do change. you will have to do the work yourself, yourself. in this world, the way it is. nobody is going to give it to you, not even your loved ones. some people and circumstances may, most wont. where one of the most constant things is change, they change, you change. you decide and you must. you must because the situations are real. there are so many more things that will always be ready to deplete, take away, confuse, blur. what you know, you must know for sure. itís not about anyone else as it turns out, at its end there is always you. share of it but keep, you will need it. you do need it. thatís what youíve got. thatís what you do have.

do yourself a favour and just be yourself. JUST BE YOURSELF. for what itís worth, be grateful for that which does not embrace you as you are, as you want to be. for what itís worth, you may aswell just get on with the business of being yourself. you will alleviate yourself of much of the borrowed discomfort extras that make us sick. sick in our hearts, sick in our minds, sick in our bodies. you donít have to be anyone else to have the things you want. and you donít have to compromise half as much as we seem to think we are chained and bound to. risk it. and risk it all. and see what happens. you can always start again. ainít no shame in it. thereís no reason to settle for just fabulous when you can be whole AND fabulous. not because you are proving a point, not because you need to show you believe it but because you actually do. dont make it circumstantial develop the painstaking process of making it a way of life. just the way it is. the end. because you deserve it. because you have the right. but understand that no one is going to give it to you. its never going to com from anyone else. sorry.

this abundance of tenderness we hold inherently, we should be taking the time to nurture within ourselves. for ourselves too. we forget. it is a great treasure. we donít need to Ďbe mení whatever that means today, what we need is for us to be able to be wholly women as we engage with these different spaces. we can say we would like to just been as * insert whatever it is you do * and not a woman. but good luck with that because reality is not always quite so above board, chances are you will be considered a woman whether you like it or not. what you can do is engage and i think we need not shy away from being women and being in these spaces, its about making it count. then you are repping, then rep proper. there is a someone who is always coming behind you. thats how people learn, thats how we communicate. thats how things change.
also we must most certainly feel free to express our femininity but we have so much more to draw from then just using that alone, no matter how well it works, makes us lazy and gives us a false sense of self worth. and the ground will shift on you one day.
we donít need to fear men and we donít need for men to fear women. what we are working towards here is eradicating the fear between us. we are trying to shape our own collective way forward, one that doesnít leave anyone else on the backfoot.
letís enjoy our selves. not because of, or due to, or dependent on. but letís be honest where we trip. letís be honest where we disagree, letís be honest where we need help, letís be honest where we are unfulfilled, letís be honest where we cannot change, letís be honest where we need to support, lets be honest where we cant, lets be honest when we're angry, letís be honest when it hurts, letís be honest in our struggles, letís be honest in our pain, letís be honest in our entirety. letís be honest when we most feel we cannot be. sense of self is a step by step by step of small stupid things that build character. and the women that we need are the kinds of women who know how to survive, how to build, how to share. how to be selfish when needs be and generous when it counts the most. when it is about the you and when it for the whole. you must know the difference. there is far too muck work still to be done.

i am not advocating for ballbreakers (although you will be tested and will have to break one or two), i not advocating for women who fear other women, im advocating for a grounded selfhood. i believe the gains are far greater there.

and thank you to every single man known and unknown who doesnt fear his womans greatness but can appreciate it and enjoy it. every man who has ever stood by a woman who wanted different for herself. you rock. big up to men raising young ladies GOD speed and may those upstarts teach you something that you can find in yourself to extend to the greater community of women who need it too. big up to all the women in lesbian relationships, i believe they have a lesson for all women and men. there is a particular evident wholeness there. all the young ladies who follow, facing journeys travelled before, i wish for you an authentic self created kind of confidence. theres more out there then just being modern or empowered. thereís more. look up and look ahead. i believe to say thank you is to do justice to every last sacrifice that was made in your name by people who knew you and those who didnt. and to pa** on the gift of sacrifices to be made in your name too. 

i realised today that i donít just want to be celebrated, i want to be respected, cherished, protected, adored, supported, nurtured, uplifted. i want my feelings and thoughts to be considered, valued. i want to be seen AND heard. i want to define and lead and support. i want to set the agenda and fight for it. i do not want to be loved in fear, i donít want to be any less for love, i just want to be loved. i want to love. i want to know what it means to truly love myself. i want compa**ion, i want appreciation. in my pride, in my strength, in my weakness. as the force of nature that i am. i want to grow tall in my fullness. i want to go hoarse not from silence but from speaking and speaking and speaking and speaking. i want to be gentle. and dream MY dreams. i want to tell the world to f*** off. i want to honour my scars. i want better for young girls in places with names i can barely pronounce. i want to see something else. i want the space to be better than even i can imagine. i want to be all i can be, unapologetically. i want to breathe. i want to dance. i want to put back and push. i want to trust myself no matter what. i want to take a stand. i do not want to turn or shy away from anything. i want to face it with wholeness. i want to remember that i matter too. i want to be in healthy spaces and healthy relationships. i want to be healthy. i want.

and so i wish for you. i wish for you the opportunities, however painful and necessary as they may be in their arrival, to explore, discover, understand and meet the woman you are afraid of in you. i wish for you the kind of healing that only comes with truth. i wish for you the strength to earnestly fight for your right to a solid wholeness. and you there i suspect you will find that what should be the easiest thing to do, will be one of the hardest things you will ever do. i wish you many many moments of silence. treat your femininity as the gift it is. i wish for you a self determined sexuality that still respects you. remembering that as incubators of tomorrow, we know of life.

i wish you courage.

magine. consider everything you understand to make you you. anything you pin your sense of self on. whether itís a thing, a person, your achievements. whatever it may be. imagine yourself without it. imagine losing all of it, for whatever reason, imagine a moment where you are without. and who would you be then. who would you be. how would you feel. what would you say then. who would it make you. what would it take. thats the person who matters most. life is like that. take the time.

thank you for listening.

General Discussion / Re: Happy Women's day!
« on: August 09, 2009, 12:41:15 PM »
thank you and happy womens day to you too.

(theres a thought i would like to share here. today, i just didnt want to soundbyte this, do i ever though. gosh. anyway but im going to build a shrine elsewhere man. just to respect the beauty you have created here)

Hip Hop Events / Re: WOMANTIDE...
« on: August 07, 2009, 11:19:38 PM »
tomorrow that is. 8 august.

...and if you have even more time catch a screening of shorts by shelley barry. perspective shared from her wheelchair.

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