AND THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF SA IS...

[Blaque_Poetess]

A very important question that i think almost every1 in SA is asking themselves, is who'll be the next president. i wus wondering who do ya'll think will hav the number 1 job after Mbeki. i strongly believe that we need sum1 who's goin to keep th economic policies implemented by mbeki, but unlike mbeki who continuosly protects the interests of big business but has failed to lure foreign and even domestic investment into the economy, we need sum1 who'll put the needs of the people into consideration. Most of Mbeki's policies like allowing privatisation of parastatals (TELKOM,TRANSNET, SAA,ESKOM) have actually been to the detriment of many of our poorest and has caused ma** unemployment. Our next president will have the tough job of ensuring ma** service delivery, creating more employment, basically serving the needs of those at the bottom.otherwise....i wouldnt be to surprised if a gra**roots revolt was to break out. ...SO...according to William Gumede (author of "Thabo Mbeki, and the battle for the soul of the ANC") possible contenders for the TOP job are
ZUMA- he has a strong gra**root support base, and support from the left, but definetly not the support of the business wing, and in light of the charges that were made aganst him his name and reputation have somewhat been tainted.hes also made a habit of making stupid unfounded comments "skawara shawara" i dunno if he's the man 4 the job
WILLIE MADISHA/ZWELINZIMA VAVI- mos likely candidates from th left.i also dunno bout having a leftist president
CYRIL RAMAPHOSA- believe it or not, he's probably the strongest candidate for the job, thats if he wants it. he'll have the support of the provinces, business wing, party veterans such as Mandela. he has former rade unionist ties which might garner support from the left despite the fact that he's one of the frontrunners for BEE. i like him 4 the job
JOEL NETSHITENZHE- Mbeki's protege...extremely intelligent, he is mostly responsible for most of govts social and economic policies. was a close friend of Biko and also served in the Black Cosciousness Movement in the 70s. hes not very outspoken tho, and is almost very similar to Mbeki in his way of thinking. i think he'd make a great deputy
MOSIUOA LEKOTA- I believe hed make an excellent president. Firstly if the govt is tryna send out a msg that they are one not based on ethnic ties then hes got a very good chance. He has an executive position in both the ANC and in Govt, and this man is not afraid to speak his mind.he has a huge support base in the provinces, the business wing and the picky left, and also from party veterans and most importantly a wide gra**roots support base.
MATHEWS PHOSA- hmm dunno much bout him excep that he wrote a poetry book in afrikaans
TOKYO SEXWALE- doubt hed want the job, too busy making money and is apparently quite disillusioned with politics (don blame him)
TITO MBOWENI- he'll get no support from the left, being a staunch capitalist (high interest rates, strong currency), no gra**roots support either.dunno bout him either...
KGALEMA MOTLANTHE- he's a worker bee, he's calm, a great spin doctor for ANC , is highly respected within trade union movement, carries a lot of suppor and is quite popular with the people, and has a powerful position within the ANC.
a woman maybe...
NKOSAZANA DLAMINI-ZUMA-  i think shes doing a great job where she is, and i don think she has the charisma necessary to draw in the nation. her positioning in the africanist camp on Zimbabwe might count against her if she had any chance
PHUMZILE MLAMBO-NGCUKA- if she got the job it wud be very dodge. Zuma supporters would go buckwild.

so....what do ya'll think????

[blaqsouljah]

on the candidate list and possible what-ifs and outcomes of the apparent, yet highly denied, presidential candidacy discussion/ topic/ race/ debacle or whatever else you want to name it - i really cannot comment with any level of cautious certainty. but i found your first part interesting - economic policies and the works.

 i salute mbeki and those around him in the way they have stimulated the economy. but how can you say that he has done little for the economy in encouraging foreign investment? that could not be further from the truth even if it was intended that way. maybe i'm the only person who thinks that state run entities are a waste of money and time. privatisation is of certain parastatals is a good thing and ensures great returns for the investment in the entity. maybe there could be an agreement reached with those buying into these entities to transfer a significant ownership back to the state after the entity has been rehabilitated, and can function as a profitable entity. the government has long seen that pumping tons of cash into entities that do not show any returns is not good for the books of the government and to counter the losses one would have to hike service prices or print new notes (welcome to the root cause of inflation). so privatise it and make sure that it operates on private sector ambitions of turning a profit - once it's able to sustain itself then transfer can be made back to government ownership - at a cost of course. certain basic services can be made easily available to the poor, but then again this has to be a decision that everyone takes and cannot be made unilaterally by the government. get the trade unions to strike less, and learn to settle grievances in a way that does not set back productivity. tito mboweni, by increasing interest rates, tried to curb the wasteful spending of south africans and their dependecy on credit. i would increase interest rates on certain types of credit if i were him and have levels of increase in the rates for purchases of things like houses, but based on the income of the consumers. economists say expenditure is a stimulus for the economy, but so is saving and gaining interest for the savings. but uncurtailed expenditure leads to immense levels of consumer debts and that is not good - you get more people having a decreased disposable income. it is hard to encourage investment when the trade unions cease to be watch dogs for worker interests, but tend to be mercenaries who take companies and governments to task over marginally increasing profits without looking at market competitiveness. the role of the trade unions should not be disputed, but when they encourage a drop in productivity to get their point across - what then do they think international investors are going to do? come clamouring to invest in south africa? i think not. the poor people need an economy that is vibrant to stimulate growth and further employment opportunities. the 1st and 2nd economy debate rears its head in this instance. maybe at the moment there is a huge gap between these two economies, but it is the responsibility of the 1st economy to stimulate the 2nd. it is a fact of life that there will always be people less fortunate than others, but then if we really feel for them we can adopt a dole-like system. and yes the results in england showed that it worked until there was dependency on it. we can see it in south africa with the child grant. in australia they have a grant for the abos - this is enough for them to not do anything because they live off the state. we could do that and then have all those on minimum wage resign and further burden the system.

i know you meant to talk politics and in specific the next president of south africa. truth is, the next president will not be a woman, and the left will not have as big a say as they intend on having. zuma is still not out of the running - and for the record, he is not the chosen candidate of the left even though his alignment might suggest otherwise.

[SolitaryNative]

Same ol same ol. Joel is the dark horse but f*** if my opinion's gonna change tings.  What needs to happen is for the race to opened up and that's a battle in itself for the party and the candidates.  It's shit that the next prsident could be Zuma or Zuma.  Not because of him (he may be an excellent president who knows) but for the fact that in what is supposed to be a politically engaged society we have only one obvious candidate.  

So much work to do on this man, s'why I can't engage here I'll go mad.  The media have really built Zuma to the point where he looks unstoppable.  I think Joel would be better in the long run and I fear many will realise this only after the parties, hangovers and shit stop though. He's actually got the makings of a statesman, something the world needs right now.  Not just SA, f***.  Told you.  I'm out...

[Blaque_Poetess]

blaqsouljah: whoa!! interesting post. lemme clarify or rather refine sum points i made earlier. im not saying that mbeki hasnt done the economy any good. quite the contrary actually. the premise of GEAR is " A STRATEGY OF GROWTH WITH DEVELOPMENT, STREAMLINED INTO SIX PILLARS ADDRESSING POVERTy, EMPLOYMENT, CRIME AND GOOD GOVERNANCE WITHIN A POWERFUL COMPETITIVE SOUTH AFRICAN ECONOMY TO SECURE THE WEALTH OF THE COUNTRY AND PROMOTE INVESTMENT" yes sure he has encouraged foreign investment into the country, but whats the point of all that if its not trickling down to the ma**es. i know that these things take time and all, but the statistics are appalling. the amount of people unemployed, poverty etc. unskilled workers are in a dilemma bcos of foreign companies, even sum domestic ones who are so used to cheap black labour that they are reluctant to develop skills within their companies in order to empower the average man on the street. and Mbeki continues to protect ther interests within the economy. u heard the latest statistics on crime, nuthing is being done, besides the obvious psychopaths a lotta people engage in criminal activities to survive, to put food on the table and support thei families because the prospect of getting a job are dire. (i dont condone crime, but i do sumtimes undastand where they cum from)
GEAR is meant to result in growth, job creation and redistribution, it was meant to reduce the budget deficit to 3 percent of GDP by 2000, 1.35 million jobs meant to be created by 2000. but GEAR  can only work through foreign capital flowing into SA. but GEAR has failed to attract investment, decrease unemployment or raise growth to the same levels as other emerging countries. as for privatisation of parastatals, well im sure we're all clear on what a disaster that was...maybe they should have given it more time, especially with regards to listing,bcos now so many of the shares were bought up by..no offence to anyone white people, so the economy is falling back into their hands because the majority of black south africans dont hav the capital to be buying up shares. how s that redistribution of wealth...anyhow my point was that we need a president who'll build on the economic policies in place already, but adjust them accordingly so that the the trickle down effect can take place a lot faster than now, people are hungry, hunger makes ppl angry, anger...well lets just say we don want a civil war on our hands....i luv this place too much!

[SolitaryNative]

Everybody wants a president who can build on economic successes, that just translates differently according to your circumstances.  This middle cla** bantering isn't going to swing the outcome though.  It'll come down to the vote, not logic and economic reasoning.  If that comes into it great but right now I think people need to have things make more sense to them.

The current government has done squat in terms of PR and actually showing people in simple terms what has been achieved.   It's quite ma**ive and to be so over publicised on stupid issues and not to let people know what you have been doing can sometimes translate into political suicide.

BTW, who do you see this "civil war" as being betwen?  Do you mean poular revolt against the rich, against the authorities, tribalism, race war?

Oh yes, and I do mean President who will be SEEN TO...  It's not like he is going to be singlehandedly ruling the nation.  Jus a disclaimer in case anyone thought I thought the president actually ran the country.

[churchofthe latterdayLatte]

is it me, or could kgalema motlante be making a play for the presidency? i see him playing the unifier here. policymaker and academic? yes.but technocrat and charismatic?not so sure. what do AG ma**ive think?

[churchofthe latterdayLatte]

joel could just be the man.when asked that question he will usually give you the 'i can neither confirm nor deny that but watch this space' smile. then again ANC is all obout consensus. dont bank on them backing zuma either, those cats are fickle...you can see them distancing even now...ramatlodi apologising to thabo.what!

[Blaque_Poetess]

bornenbled: i totally agree with u. the people do need to be educated about govt policies in simple laymans terms. they need to undastand why they are putting the cross down. more attention needs to be given to why certain things are done etc and not only during election campaigns.people need to feel like they are a part of the country and we definately need a platform whereby politicians actually engage with the people. as for civil war, when people are unhappy with the status quo, like durng the apartheid era they will revolt against the authoritis namely governement. people are living in poverty, they habve nothing to lose by revolting against government, its bn done before, and i dont see why it cant be done again, not that i want it to happen, all im saying is that we've proven that south aficans dont take things lying down, sum change is necessary. kgalema would def make a good president...he's underrated but very powerful

[Blaque_Poetess]

MELANIN: i know what you mean about the ANC, right now they are not projecting the image of a united party. there are so many divisions that go waaaay back, who wants to be led by a divided party.Joel is very smart, i like him, but we need more than just an intellectual, he's still very loyal to Mbeki which is a very good thing but can also work against him in that those against Mbeki will probably marginalise him.

[SolitaryNative]

It's a tough one.  I'm just keen to see what the angles are going to be in the elections between now and then.  I think we'll get a good indication.  But yeah-laymans terms, and further- people's terms and issues.

@melanin: hehe, fickle.  I love those relaxed smiles, not just de J but others too.  It's like they know something nobody else does.  Wish I knew what it was...     :|

[Darklight]

Mark my works, the next president will be Dep. President, forgot 'her' name now...

And I think the next pope will be a black one and more modern, I think the current pope, pope benny is going to be a**asinated... :roll:

[SubTopic]

I must agree with Bornbled on his words:

Everybody wants a president who can build on economic successes, that just translates differently according to your circumstances. This middle cla** bantering isn't going to swing the outcome though. It'll come down to the vote, not logic and economic reasoning. If that comes into it great but right now I think people need to have things make more sense to them.

The current government has done squat in terms of PR and actually showing people in simple terms what has been achieved. It's quite ma**ive and to be so over publicised on stupid issues and not to let people know what you have been doing can sometimes translate into political suicide.

the problem in south africa is that we have an uneducated working cla** majority who cannot think in global terms.what the working cla** wants is more socialism but what they fail to understand is that govts can no longer do hand outs for every aspect of your life. those times are now gone.its survival of the fittest.capitalism is by far the greatest system.and let you tell you why.it is a great system when EVERYONE participates.it allows each human involved in the system to receive their just rewards.but the reason why we see poverty in countries like the US is because those people have failed to participate. now this is why the socialists hate capitalism. they feel that each man deserves an equal cut of the pie.but in reality each man contributes not in equal measures.the socialists are lazy and stupid at the same time.let me give you an example.they say that the corporates are exploiting them but at the same time they work for them!this is a contradiction! every man has a choice.
but enough of the left bashing, let me not let the moderates get away with this either! mbeki is sneeky too as he has tried very hard to increase the black middle cla** population. why is this? well because if you give a man a lifestyle he doesnt want to loose (car, house, hi fi, flat screen tv, dstv etc) then that man will sure as hell make sure that the far left stay the f*** out of ruling this country. but you see mbeki has told his banking friends to give much credit to blacks in this country so that they can taste what capitalism is all about, but not realising that most people in sa don't have any discipline when it comes to credit cards and credit in general.now u have more blacks driving around in bmw and audis.but this population is too small to affect the majority socialist vote.
so I wont be surprised if zuma gives us a scare.
but at the same time dont write off mbeki.this is a country too precious to allow socialists to take over.he has a plan.and zuma is just a scare. thats all.the next president i can gaurantee is not zuma.he/she will be part of the mbeki camp (anc or not).

[zoolooo1]

And the new President is.......??? come on now....uMsholozi!!! Yeahhhhh

[Blizzard]

 I mvery glad that there are people like you Black-Poetess in this forum, co-sign with some of the stuff u ve said. However, i think its importnat for us South Africans to look beyond the ANC, yes they are the liberation party, we have the best constitution in the world and blah blah blah. I have problems with ANC economic policies, they are in no way going to address poverty in this country but instead gonna make the gap between the working cla** and the middle cla** even wider. There is talks of foreign investment but the way we go baout it its pathetic. the government works from a premise that its too expensive to do business in SA and in order for us to have a environment where investors are going  to come to SA we must reduce the cost of doing labour, not the cost of manufacturing, marketing or advertising BUT to reduce salaries. Then tell me if its gonna be possible to get rid of the two economies that the president is always gaaning aan about.
Prof Sampie Terreblanche from Stellenbosch argues that during the CODESA talks the ANC was told " you can have Pretoria (Tshwane) but dont touch JHB". At the time he was saying this i though, here is a grumpy old white Afrikaner proffessor taking cheap shots at the government but now it has dawned to me that he was telling the truth. Why do you think that the likes of De Beers, AngloGold, the universities, the courts, the churches ect all the big business did not appear in front of the TRC and admit that that were part of gross human rights violation?
Its unfortunate that SA politics and the voting patterns are based on race and not the parties economic policies, do ppl on the ground understand ANC economic policies? NO!!! When they demonstrate against poor service delivery do they direct their anger or challenge gov policies? NO!! their anger is directed at those poor ward councillors and the local government. It gets to me when the same people would praise-sing Trevor Manuel budget speech and they cannot see that his budget is based on the same policies that are not working for them.
Call me a leftis but i think it is about time we have a working cla** party, that is going to stand for the poor people which are the majority in this country.  The ANC was started by a group of black middle cla** (lawyers, teachers, business ppl) who wanted a share in the apartheid capitalism.So, the ANC was/will never be the party for the poor.
With the BEE its just the same isht but different flies. I cant keep quiet whilst the majority, the ppl i see everyday are living under abjcet poverty.  Its gonna take a while though to get to that but i believe that it is achievable. FCUK the World Bank, the WTO (world trade organization) NEPAD, Privitasation IMF ...............................................................

[TOIVO]

Msholozi would be a very likely candidate but there is one small problem he is ZULU, dont tell me you guys havent noticed that the SA democracy has been led by Xhosa man and
Mlambo Ngcuka only got the gig of becoming the deputy bcz he is married to a Xhosa man and he might be giv'n the president a little bit of sum sum.

Mbeki only go the job because he was the son of Govern and bcz Mandela and his daddy dearest cut a deal in Robben Island somewhere, intially the next pres after madiba was suppose to be tokyo or ramaphosa.

and the others that u've metnioned, the Ramathlodi's, Kgalema, Dlamini-zuma.Netshitenze etc...
Well they dont stand a snowball's chance in hell!

bottom line is:its gonna be a huge suprise... Ek se vir jou!