Crime Solution

[Sunshine]

- Have any of you guys heard of the Rapex www.rapestop.net
Check out the gallery on that page to see pics of this anti- rape device which hooks into a perpetrator.

A friend of mine was in New York the other day, I asked him what New Yorkers said about how Guiliani stopped crime that was plaguing the city. Apparently he just turned it into a police state... I.D. searches, etc all the time everywhere....

What's going to be our solution to crime.

[Sunshine]

Read about Guiliani's anticrime strategy.

http://www.govtech.net/magazine/story.php?id=94735&issue=7:1999

[A pimp named Sarkozy]

mmmh! first of all, this rapex product,ja its good for women to protect themselves against....these kind of guys.

Im against this product.

First of all,lets say a woman gets attacked & raped,& this product gets effective  on the rapist's dick,
what do you think,the reaction would be on:dont you think that rapist would probably kill that woman,
Ok! lets say its 4 man then,What do you think,will happen.

My point,im trying 2 drive home here.They made this product looking at it from their own eyes.
Thinking the attacker would definately run holding his dick!

Nah! there are crazy nutcases out there.

[TATEguru v.2K9]

IMHO

It appears Julliani's strategy was technology heavy & reliant on internet as a reasonable point of access for the local gvt. How many households on average have access to the net in SA?
In the NYC every patrol car is equiped with high speed wireless internet connectivity to police servers. How feasible is this in SA?

Fighting crime in SA is inherently linked to fighting poverty there is no escaping that. WHatever strategy is suggested for SA will need to take cogniscance of the unique face of crime in SA.

Is Joburg still the world's crime capital outside of a war zone?

[briCK]

Im against this product.

[Malcom E.K.K.S]

Only  way to stop crime is to have a police state... It'd be a safer life 4 all, free of drugs etc, i.e theoretically speaking. In reality humans can't all be the same, the utopian views of most peeps r str8 up bull...It all boils done to survival of the fittest in this dog eat dog world, and the tactics one employs to  keep on breathing...If u a woman and don't wanna get rapped, stay of dangerous areas, like dark alleys and sh!t... Don't dress to kill, coz u might be the one who'd get killed. ANd 4 guys, stop flossing, wealth is of the mind, not the pocket....

[Sunshine]

Fighting crime in SA is inherently linked to fighting poverty there is no escaping that. WHatever strategy is suggested for SA will need to take cogniscance of the unique face of crime in SA.

How come my quotes-html never quotes properly?

tATE... note that Giuliani solved homelessness too.... that was part of the problem. One of the biggest problems in NYC was drug use, crack etc.

One of my colleagues says she used to live in New York and crime was out of control. She says she can't believe it when people say that its safe now.

Yes crime needs a poverty-based answer, and i think we can tackle these issues simultaneously. Young guys need to get their a**es off the streets.

Truancy needs to be illegal again. And then the govt. needs to set up sports and extra-curricula programmes for people. You shouldn't be allowed on the streets for no good reason if you're between ages 1 - 30.

Ok, sounds draconian. but that's the way to go. If guys insist on sitting on the street corners, then they're just lazy. But if guys go and do basketball training and so forth for the whole day, it'll divert their dangerous tendencies.

Ok, so we don't have internet in every black home. But we do have BMWs for patrol cars. We can get business against crime to sponsor the wireless internet bit.

Anyway, the issue is we can adapt the NYC method to here. Its interesting that it didn't take New York to putting all criminals to death, but to face the real problem - inadequate community policing and homelessness.

[churchofthe latterdayLatte]

turning into a carceral state(when the solution is to jail) is no solution to crime. its an excuse to put people away that you cannot cater for...those that occupy the fringes and fall under the radar of provision.its liberal democracy's/capitalisms biggest crime. who goes to jail...poor people. the problem of crime is as much a reflection of the need to jail more as it is a reflectionn of how much governments are failing to deliver and bring more and more into the fold of participation.

it is a positivist view of the situation that allows society to advocate prison systems (Faucault). I am against prison systems.

statistics on the Prison Industrial Complex in the US are shocking-this is a bloc of stake holders that include corporate america.prisons have been turned into factories where you can have anything made from electric appliances (general electric) to Gap sweaters and Victoria's secret...at 22 cents a hour...cheap unlimited source of labour. to sustain this minority groups are primed for jail...and as such minor non-violent offences like marijuana related offences are now Federal offences...as opposed to state...making it easier to end up in jail. unfair laws like the three strikes law make it easier for minorities to end up in jail. the US builds 20 times more jails and counting, than colleges. for every 1 black male in college, 5 are in jail. blacks are 5.8% of the CAli population alone, but comprise 38% of the prison population.jailing more people is justified under the guise of reducing violent crime...but the fact is that none of the top ten offences that people are jailed for are violent crimes

the US is one example in many...and south africa is not immune. we could ourselves become a carceral state.my thesis is that it is government and media fear mongering (grimm visuals and statistics) that make citizens more receptive to the language of jailing.

I have done extensive research and currently am writing on this (Towards a Prison Industrial Complex in South Africa?) - willl post here-

[Sunshine]

yA,  a police state doesn't work because then the biggest thugs are the government.

Like when Mussolini almost decimated the Sicilian mafia. He couldn't tolerate real thug competition.

But we need some drastic and maybe nasty solutions.
Foucault is nice in theory but useless in practice. I hope your research can unearth some solutions (so does the minister of safety and security!)

Capitalism protects private property thus it becomes anti-poor coz poor people have nothing and are thus treated like a threat.

Capitalism requires everyone to accept that some will be richer than you, or that you can sweat like a dog, be ruthless and get to own lots of stuff too.

Thus even the poor have motivation to respect the laws of private property.

Thus any good capitalist will tell you that despite the inequalities, it is in the poors interest to maintain the system of capital with its basis in private property rights.

Thus the poor shouldn't commit crimes, rather buy into the system for your own potential good.

Problem with crime is that its hectically anti-poor too. The brunt of crime is felt in the most poor of our poor. Most of the violence in S.A. is still located in our townships (as transported there by the apartheid state).

So we have to look at crime broader than just these Marxist/Foucauldian paradigms.  Its our poor who are most vulnerable.

In S.A. the prison was just another aspect of apartheid fascism. So prisons here can't be understood with Foucault's carcel society analyses. We need something more contextual. He's talking 19th century capitalist Europe. We're talking something even more pathological and even more devastating in South Africa.

Anyway, mixed feelings on this one. I think we need a radical and integrated solution. We can't keep pathologising poor communities by a**uming they identify with the criminals that menace them. Just becoz you're poor doesn't mean you should be a violent muthaf***a, and in fact, its insulting when analysis of crime focus too much on the condition of poverty. Lots of our people are poor but maintain their 'moral' integrity.

It's not enough to just invoke poverty or capitalism as the causal factor. That's where Foucault and Marx are limited.


We need to look at other issues like patriarchy, cultures of  violence, commuity distrust of police, social rage and traumas. Being poor doesn't make you a violent sumbitch.

Hence we get rich people who commit crimes too. Like why are so many serial killers in america are middle cla** and educated?

We live in a capitalist system. We've yet to find a more practical way of living in our modern way. Socialism was more violent.
So if we accept capitalism, then we must work out our solutions within that.

Anyway, justice is racist and biased. But we need some solution and it will be imperfect.

[dat dude who happens to rap!]

Look I see it at an angle of, instead of preventing a fire you want to place fire extinguishers all over the place, IN CASE VA FIRE breaks out. rather lets concentracte on having heavy sentences for rape so that the culprits will go to jail for a minimum of 15 years. Also the police need to do there work rather than just sit around. Honestly when you last saw a cop, and if you had to be chased do you honestly think the fat dude will catch you?

Be honest here.


Explicit

[churchofthe latterdayLatte]

i just think that crime will decrease and the prison system will function legitimately only when all, if not most are able to participate in Laissez Faire...we cant have economic activity and respect for property etc. when +-40% of the population fall below the tax bar and have no property to speak of.you cannot respect something that is a foreign concept to you. and you cant legitimately excercise the penal code if people mostly will end up in jail because of need. *this does not include  rapists* not to say poor people are more inclined to immoral behaviour...they happen to be the ones who are propper and more God fearing, but rather that most people who commit crimes do so because they have no opportunity to legitimately share in the capitalist dream...and they will continue to wreak havoc until we actively do something to bring them in. jail should be a balanced punitive measure. my problem is that it is one-sided. from the other end it means to me that you lock people away because they are poor. it starts at kicking street dwellers out of the posh areas because they disturb the "natural and clean" look of things...when you should be looking into dealing with the problem alternatively by housing them. for me its just a matter of how societies choose to deal with those it cannot or chooses not to accommodate.

[milk]

Speaking of crime, I would suggest that u read this book, it's the CIA training manual, shows u how to defend yourself when threatend (knife, gun) and also shows u how to kill your opponent.

I have tons more self defense and military books if u interested so let me know.

don't be a victim!

enjoy

[attachment deleted by admin]

[BHLAKHROZE]

what are we talking about when we speak of crime. is it muggings. car jackings. break ins etc. theft. is it murders (not those that are by products of the above). bank robberies. is it drug dealing. fraud. human trafficking. tax evasion.

is it school kids stabbing each other.    

i dont know if a blanket strategy will work. and perhaps im not equipped to be on this thread actually coz. i dont even have a back up. but its just that. i dont know. there is an added element. a thinking that i feel is missing in crime discourse. maybe ke within a south african context. or maybe even broader. and quite honestly i have no phucken clue what. but in our approaching it. our thinking about it. i just feel like in relation to specific crimes - the case of rape. its a completely different psychology altogether. the issues at play. they differ. how do you get to the root of that.  

if we are are talking violent crimes. it would seem that we're a violent society. the question is why.

there are societies with similiar economic disparities as we do. or close. or worse. yet less hectic than we are. why. what is it in our particular context that breeds for this.  

ive never been know to be very practical. perhaps im  just 'philosphising - like i even know how to do that. what a laff '

anyway. i dont know.

[TATEguru v.2K9]

One view is that the phenomenon of Apartheid was violently enforced & so bred a culture of violent hatred amidst the people of this land which rings true until today. That would explain the racially motivated violent crimes to some degree. But what about the blaq on blaq?...

[Sunshine]

well, black ppl have been ma**acring each other on behalf of white conquerers for ages - in exchange for a hoe, a field and christianity.

in 80s and 90s natal and JHB black ppl ma**acred each other for a variety of reasons - including male generational gaps (older rural males wanting to punish young urban males), men wanting to a**ert power over women, gang cultures in the Reef going back to early 1900s, money.

White society was protected from the slaughter that their system bred in our socieities. now its more generalised, there's no protection from the BLACK RAGE.  White supremacy breeds black rage.

anyway, so BLHKROZE is right, there's no blanket. But we can start by specifically isolating crimes like hijackings, cash heists and roberries etc.

Those crimes breed more harm because they hit on the stability of the economy. School violence and intimate crimes need even more social solutions.

But we need to make our streets safe. We need public spaces to be OPEN AND FREE. We need to be able to conduct business, earn livehoods, walk in JHB with no fear.  If we want to shop all night, we should be able to shop all night.

Hell, now we can't even shop during the day.

Zimbabwe's instability has also bred into South Africa. So our South Africans can't look North for opportunities, and a few Zimbabweans come down here looking to escape oppression.

They wind up in JHB as footsoldiers for syndicates. Zim needs to get stable so citizens of the region can have more opportunity for economic participation.

Hijacking syndicates take orders from Zim, Angola, Mocambique. Our peeps hijack cars and send them to corrupt officials in those countries.

Our hijacking syndicates aren't hijacking cars for an internal market purely. Our JEEPS go all the way to Angola!

Anyway - Greedy Africans throughout the SADC are undermining the economic stability of the region.

SADC is awash with GUNS from the wars in the region. Guns are easy business. We will struggle with controlling arms smuggling. Furthermore, our own army and police force is implicated in trading their own weapons.

South aFRICAns are happy to commit crime coz they just are and they're greedy and resentful, so they hijack ruthlessly.
We need tighter vehicle cross-border controls.