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Hip Hop is not for Africans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TNGlive

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Quote from: "Dplanet"

Half the world listens to Dancehall and Reggae and probably doesn't understand half of what is being said. Sure, you lose a lot by not being able to understand the language, but there's more than just the words - you can appreciate flow, cadence, tone of voice etc (and the beat as well obviously).


Hmmm, have'nt thought of it like that. But having considered that, the Dancehall & Reggae isht "we" non ragga-headz listen to, is considered the "commercial" side of these genres according to the purists. And when I think about my tastes form these genres, it's the joints that:
a ) Make u wanna dance.
b ) talk about falling in love/still being in love.

^^2 things not too popular with most makers of rap music.

And please note, that same music is usually a very very very watered down version of the "Jamaican tsotsi-tal" i.e...a bit of plain English for u to make the connection(understand)..still in their accent. But even if u don't speak the slang, u learn to pick up what the word means if u are a hard-core fan. It's a big difference between learning the new slang to a language u already speak, as opposed to learning a new language all together.
 
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The whole world doesn't speak English so it's a mistake to think that by rhyming in English you are gonna reach everyone anyway. To the majority of France, Germany, Sweden, Japan etc it's just words - what difference does it make if its English or Xhosa as long as the track is hot?


Come now bra, I know that, I was just sayin English, French, and Asian. Did'nt say just English. And the reason for those being top3 is strictly according to population numbers of people who speak these languages globally. West Coast Africans doin hip hop are doing it in French, not their specific country's language, for this same reason of reach I'm talking about. It still is Rap from Africa. And this fact is based on life, not just music. Media news networks, how meetings in business/ international goverment congregations are conducted. I mean look man, MOST business in this country is conducted in English & Afrikaans. MOST scholling throughout the continent is conducted in English or French. These 2 languages are COMPULSORY languages to pa** in your standard form of education whatever that may be depending on where u are on the continent. Be proud of your heritage and your home language yes! When we're talking about the commerce of music, it's time for plain facts..not ideals. It's just the way it is, the way the world is. All a result of hundreds of years of unrelated bullsh!t that went on in history with colonization.

I'd like to point out it's also not correct to a**ume that for people in Germany, Sweden and Japan "it's just words". It's the same reason that U.S. civilians think we "Africans" don't speak English. Major artists (not just hiphop) have major shows in Japan, where the fans are singing word for word, and when they cut away at audience interviews, these Japanese fans are speaking English.

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People in London want to hear shit about London, with the dialects, slang and local knowledge and culture that you can only have if you come from there. They don't want to hear someone immitating them from afar. However, they do want to hear dope music from other cultures.


The mistake I'm bringin to light here is the automatic a**umption that as soon as the words coming out of your mouth are English, you're not being authenticly "African". African French rappers don;t have this problem.  ...U see the thing is simple, over 800million people in Africa. In S.A. alone u have 11 languages. And this is not even the biggest country. That's how many languages and cultures..all of which come to have the common denominator called Hip Hop.
 
About the Xhosa artist that makes u want to learn the language. That's brilliance acheived by the artist to make you want to get closer. It's nothing new though bra. I owned a album from the dude that was the biggest artist in Tanzania called Mr. II (pronounced Mr. 2). No english, strictly swahili, but I bumped that over and over because I thought the flow and music accompanying the rapping was banging. I have'nt played that album for 4 years. And when I got it I thought the skits (about dodgy promoters, even though it was in Swahili u could tell from th titles and arguments going on), and the tracks were tight. But I can't tell you sh!t beyond that, the type of sh!t that  makes one a true fan, the type of things that make u go tell someone about the artist (as I've just done but this is purely out of giving an example), and most importantly, the type of thing that'll make me  go to his show me or buy his next album ....And u you know what that thing is... I don't know what he's saying .
...What am I gonna scream along too?  :?
...How am I gonna see my own life in what he's saying?


Dpleezy

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Quote from: "Bondizzo"
dplanet whats your honest opinion of the monopoly so far ?


Well, Cash is an arsenal fan so i'm predisposed to liking his work ;)

But seriously - i have downloaded 4 or 5 Monopoly tracks and they have all been good.

Whatever my personal taste, I respect their energy and determination - the SA hip hop scene needs that kind of attitude.

Unlike a lot of heads, I'm not a snob or a purist - I can happiliy listen to 50 cent, Jeezy or Weezy as well as Ben Sharpa, KONFAB, Landmynz and even Hyphatic Thabs.

Whether or not Monopoly is the future of SA Hip Hop remains to be seen, but they definitely have as much right to do their thing as anyone else.


cash

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im like the RAP Henry niggas!
a true GUNNER!

no.12 bitch!
niggas cant keep up. :wink:
@cash_sog


funkymonkey

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Quote from: "Dplanet"
Quote from: "funkymonkey"
That happens with almost 98% of these bastards who try cripple hip hop in this country, claiming that hip hop is not South African, we are copying Americans, when all these house dj’ing M.F’s just compile house tracks from Europe and the U.S and release a compilation album. All of them, from Sbu, to Fresh, to Oskido, to Christos and Vinnie, and basically everyone in the industry.

And then they have the ordesity to label us as “ama-fake American wanna be’s” Where’s the justice in this?!?!


This is an interesting new take on this debate. I'd never thought of it from the House angle before. I guess the big difference is that House is instrumental. Local 'Americanised' Hip Hop features American accents and often styles of dressing. I guess this gives the haters ammunition.


Haters have no ammunition really if you think about it!!! If you gon say that hip hop features American accents and often styles of dressing,then you are opening up a whole load of other arguable angles.

1)the accents are there,true,but who's to say that one cant be influenced by accents if you spend most of your time growing up listening to music,tv and movies with those accents.Same goes for the kids who grew up in the so called "model C" schools.I mean hell man,if I was taught to speak that way,then let me be,its not my fault I was born into the life Im living,just like its not my fault other niggers were born into their lives were they couldnt go to model C schools.
And not everyone who does hip hop has an accent.

2)dont even get me started on the dress code!!!Lets just say,until niggers start wearing African garments from head to toe,then they need to shut the ufck up.Let us not forget that Dikkies(Trompies favourate label) is American.All Stars(everybodies favourate) is American, La Coste(Sbu's label of preferance) is European and the list goes on and on from Levis (every pantsula and lova today has one pair atleast) Diesel,Puma Nike and a shit load of labels that South Africans love so much are not South African.wether you are a hip hop hater or not,you own atleast one of these items mentioned above.

Lastly,you dont hear anyone complaining about Lucky Dube and his raggae do you????If you were influenced by Roberta Flack or Diana Ross and you express it in your music even though you are South African and your name is Lira,nobody complains!!!!But why hate on hip hop???
ANG! like BANGi Inc.
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MrC The Rap God Almighty

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^^^^ Well Said.
"Generation X, really take it to the Max, everybody's so smart,cos we google all the facts" - Neon


motley

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Cash is an idiot, nothing but a puppet of the system. The name encapsulates his stance.


cash

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they threatened by hiphop cos it influences PROGRESSION! the type of pregression where it becomes your culture/religion/way of life! hiphop has a way of destroying past mind sets and creating NEW ones! this is what all these other music genres dont have! hiphop can take any shape and form and can infiltrate any demograph! they scared its gon take over our culture and AFRICANISM!

where else do u find such a force which can turn any negative to a positive!
hiphop took the word NIGGER and made it NIGGA!
the word bitch,now the ladies proudly say IM A BITCH - missy,lil kim,foxy brown, even that country sanger.....whatever her name is!
look at how the MONOPOLY :lol: took the word CRACK! errbody sayin everything DOPE is CRACK now!

thats the power of hiphop and they scared! cos when u rock All Stars its Ok! u aint carryin the swagger with ya! but when u rockin them S.carters or TIMS,then theres a problem! cos u change ya swagger! the culture change is noticable even by the way u walk and carry yaself!
its OK to rock dickies cos u still KASI, but when u rockin them Phatfarm jeans ya swagger changes!

they scared they gon lose they KIDS! its OK! they in denial cos they already lost they KIDS!

the sad thing is that the perception is that hiphoppers have lost their identity and are TRYIN to be AMERICAN! that is so far from the truth it SCARES ME! mattter fact,hiphoppers are the most African people on the continent! WE TEACH,LEARN,ADAPT,LIVE POSITIVELY,ASPIRE,ADVANCE,GIVE BACK,AND GENERALLY ARE MOVING OUR PEOPLE TO A HIGHER INTELLECTUAL PLANE and are EMPOWERING THE AFRICAN RACE!!!!!

all these other kwai-hoppers and all them pussy a** dudes is about a QUICK BUCK! theyre the ones f***in up the AFRICAN RACE! runnin round NOTSAYIN NOTHIN!

hiphop aint FOR africans! hiphop IS african! as african as me goin to initiation school EZILALINI to become a man! as african as my f***in tongue clicks when i speak isiXhosa wit my niggas in the EC!

f*** outta here wit this bullshit!
@cash_sog


Dpleezy

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yeah,,, you're right, the line is blurred... BUT... there is a line that gets crossed too often between influence and immitation.

we live in a global economy where brands are available around the world so obviously cats will be wearing all these brands. however, hip hop, probably more than any other form of music in the world is about 'repping your endz' (as they say in the uk) - ie. being about where you're from - representing your life.

We don't live the same life over here that cats live in the States, why should we look and sound like them?

I work with artists with american accents, but they got them growing up in the States where they were immersed in that culture and understood the nuances of the language and the slang.

when you pick up your accent from listening to US hip hop, you are learning to live your musical life through someone's else's ideas and experiences. it shapes the way you think and act because you don't have a wider perspective. the words you are copying have no meaning because they are not based on [/b]your experience.

language is one of the cornerstones of culture because our experience of everyday life are encoded in it. If you pick up an accent from watching tv or listening to music you are copying the end product with no real understanding of the real culture that it represents. Your music can't be anything but superficial as a result.

It's easy to understand why cats do it. It's hard to break out of the mindset that if hip hop is done without an American accent it is somehow inauthentic, or just doesn't sound right.

As I have said before, we went through this same phase in the uk - on the one hand rapping with a british accent sounded wrong to heads, but on the other hand no one could take british rappers with American accents seriously so uk hip hop got stuck. Eventually uk rappers started 'repping their endz' seriously and suddenly the scene took off. Now the UK has dozens of rappers that get love the world over - even in the States.

By the way, I feel the same way about Reggae artists. Reggae is about more than a Jamaican accent - it's a consciousness, just like Hip Hop. Talking like a Jamaican and growing dreads does not make you authentic. They even came up with a word for it - 'Jafaikans' (fake Jamaicans).


cash

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Quote from: "motley"
Cash is an idiot, nothing but a puppet of the system. The name encapsulates his stance.


u mean my B-BOY stance? :lol:  8)
@cash_sog


Anthony

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it's one ting i don't get about people.why do we limit ourselves via self-imposed labels?we want to be african, underground, 'real',etc...why can't we just be human for once and realise we are not subject to our places of origin or habitats?that societies depend on us to embellish them.the most impoverished continent on earth has nothin to do with music.music is intellectual property and is intrinsically universal due to its intangible form.same goes for education,technology, etc.noone owns creativity.the minute you accept that you realise that we are an amalgamated image of God.each human being a speck in the mural of life.there's more to hiphop or anything else than being african.our conservative ideals often kill the very cultures we try so inexorably to defend.500yrs ago this continent didn't even have a name. hey it had no borders.funny,we are imposing borders on our own minds.stop being one dimensional and start thinkin outside the box.there are bigger problems around us than kicks and snares.to fly you must first conquer your fear of heights for it is not wings than hold us down but our own ignorance.
Chosen


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i had something to say abt all of this but i was side tracked when i saw comments by that 30something, T'bo touch dick sucking mofo Cash...read, dammit read get a f***ing book and read maybe just maybe u'll comprehend with the topic at hand..wat has ur initiation and speaking of the xhosa language gotta do with hip hop being African..someone plz knock this motherf***er out... :evil:  :evil:  :evil:
 am hell behold!


funkymonkey

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interesting what you say Dplanet
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funkymonkey

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Quote from: "Dplanet"
yeah,,, you're right, the line is blurred... BUT... there is a line that gets crossed too often between influence and immitation.


when you pick up your accent from listening to US hip hop, you are learning to live your musical life through someone's else's ideas and experiences. it shapes the way you think and act because you don't have a wider perspective. the words you are copying have no meaning because they are not based on [/b]your experience.

language is one of the cornerstones of culture because our experience of everyday life are encoded in it. If you pick up an accent from watching tv or listening to music you are copying the end product with no real understanding of the real culture that it represents. Your music can't be anything but superficial as a result.

As I have said before, we went through this same phase in the uk - on the one hand rapping with a british accent sounded wrong to heads, but on the other hand no one could take british rappers with American accents seriously so uk hip hop got stuck. Eventually uk rappers started 'repping their endz' seriously and suddenly the scene took off. Now the UK has dozens of rappers that get love the world over - even in the States.

By the way, I feel the same way about Reggae artists. Reggae is about more than a Jamaican accent - it's a consciousness, just like Hip Hop. Talking like a Jamaican and growing dreads does not make you authentic. They even came up with a word for it - 'Jafaikans' (fake Jamaicans).


To be honest with you,Im not too crazy about cats rapping in accents that they dont even undersrant either. The thing about accents is that they actualy represent a particular place,sound and style. What I mean is if you are from SOWETO,people from SOWETO will know that you are from there,now try faking a SOWETO accent when you are form Bloem?!?!?!
Its not gonna be too charming.Or a guy from Limpopo trying to sound like he is from the Cape flats.

The same thing happens in hip hop.You find cats like T-Bo Tuch faking accents.If you are from the U.S you can immediately tell that a cat is faking what he doesnt understand.there are mixtures of New York,South,west and all sorts of accents in all these non American cats accents.Then they dont realise how silly they sound to Americans with their corny accents.

So yeah,I totaly agree with you there on this one.But what i dont like is the injustices from haters about hip hop in S.A.Dont forget,kwaito artists have borrowed alot from hip hop too.

Spiki - can I have some of that SPIKI RIKI RIKI RIKI (thats from Snoop Dog)

When Arthur started putting down more than one word tracks he adopted a rhyming pattern,though kwaito,but style was borrowed from hip hop realy.Same goes for Bricks,Mapaputsi,Zola,Brown Dash,Kabelo etc. They have stopped witht the one liners and have started flowing and rhyming.
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briCK

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SIN

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Interestin discussion.. but didn't get to read everyones opinion. I largely agree wit wut Cash and Dplanet are sayin. I slightly disagree wit Dplanet's homogenizin of the U.S society. When I visited the U.S two years back I was rather suprised to see how many african americans wore tight jeans. I realised that middle cla** african americans who want to distance themselves from the 'nigga' imagery reject hip hop symbolisms, like baggy clothin and ebonics. The baggy cloths themselves owe their existence to the prison experience, cause em pigs at correctional services aint goin to tailor make ur gear. I thus feel that disenchanted and disenfranchised people all over the world have a right to share their cultures.
Cash where in Jozi are u based? We must link up, I ain't heard any of ur music though. Don't be shy to put 3WR on top of ur list.. ha ha ha!