Zuma Vs Mbeki,Face-Off

[Freestyle Chemistry]

Rob id have to disagree with you there, Zuma may be (in your opinion) ''mentally immature'' but as far as politics he is up there with the best in SA, Mbeki was the ideal person after Mandela(visionary) we needed someone like Mbeki(intellectual) to carry out Mandela's economic policies and other visions for SA. Which you must admit Mbeki has done with good results. However these economic policies were mostly aimed at creating a strong middle cla** etc... and the poor were neglected, enter Jacob Zuma(man of the people) he is in my opinion anway, the ideal person to take over after Mbeki. Who in your opinion, when you analyse the available candidates, would have been better suited to succeed Mbeki?

[churchofthe latterdayLatte]

this is mentally taxing...aaaargh...ok so

I myself am not a zuma-camper. while I too feel that certain things should have disqualified him from running at all-- but at the same time I am not panicked by the victory.what has traspired speaks volumes of where SA is headed and the strength of our institutions.South africans have reinforced 'the innocent til proven guilty' principle, have called for the law to take its cource and have honured democratic traditions...albeit in a south african way....the majority has spoken. be it good or bad, it will force south africa to wake up to the reality of who we mean by majority when we say 'majority rues'...if you live in a democacy where the majority are not educated (by some accounts then tacitly lack reason)...then we will have to live with the consequences of such a majority....where the decision is not made by the people who pay taxes, who can think in terms of policy and interational relations implications...yada yada....lit then speaks directly to how much work we need to do in terms of EDUCATION...we need more 'intelligentsia'...we need more people living above the tax bar....coughing up good and proppa. taxpayers who know the value of the rand, who know what it is for someone to vandalise public amenities...who will bittely object to any one in power misusing their hard earned rands...

I would have preferred that Zuma were not a choice at all,but based on democratic principle and the choice at hand, I think Thabo would have beena hideous stain on the ANC and South African democracy. Three terms!!!?South Africans have set the tone for what is just not acceptable. we need to transcend the African mentality of those who are fit to govern and those who aren't...even if thabo mbeki was clearly the better choice, that is not the point, we are not short of leaders. lets try and if we fail, whhat is nice about democracy is that if a person f***s up...in four years you can get rid of them. Zuma I guess will work because his credentials or the lack thereof speak to truth of South Africa...few of us are educated...


In terms of policy, I foresee no major changes. the change promises to be in style,personality and approach. policy is not the preserve of the leader, for he acts as one who is deployed by the ANC...Zuma, like mbeki will execute his mandate as directed by the party. I think this also is a great turning point for the country in terms of transformation. If you think of it in stages...this point is the next thing...it is necessary. as mandela was spectacular as a transitional leader and unifier, I dont think he would have done the sterling job that Thabo has done for the economy. All these leaders have their qualities that speak to what needs to take place. Thabo has set the stage for South african business, its international profile and investment....that is done, it can sustain itself. It is now time for a socialist to take the reins...to set the stage for the upliftment of the poor...education policy and what not. I think JZ will have the harshest mandate yet...I think it was also a good opportunity fo rthe ANC to trancend its image as a Xhosa monopoly....which could have been much more explosive left untended...we do after all live in Africa. we cannot deny that tribalism is alive and well. The ANC has taken the opportunity to reinforce its anti tribalist principle here.


But I will say this: I pray to the Lord every night for a President Motlanthe.....whooo...rather!

[briCK]

I am easily offended but I easily offend so i suppose there is a balance and as Rob_One once said "briCK has chips on both shoulders so he balances out"

I don't speak for all blacks,(some are offended by the term "black" so if I am offending you monkies....askies!) I can't, blacks are a strange complex people,,,,"I will rather have a white govenment coz Zuma is a rapist" this was said by some black chick,,,I stood there jaw dropped thinking does this woman even know how much blood it took to get rid of the same white govenment she wants back and I thought well thats the problem with white black people or as Busi Mhlongo so eloquently put it."Abelungu abamnyama"

The attrocities commited by white people are not part of the "White" school curriculum so blacks who learn in said schools are detached from black history and unless they are from a "Culturally sensitive family" they loose touch with reality...Wait! Its festive time no need for this bullshit...aight I'll drop it.

[rob_one]

Rob id have to disagree with you there, Zuma may be (in your opinion) ''mentally immature'' but as far as politics he is up there with the best in SA, Mbeki was the ideal person after Mandela(visionary) we needed someone like Mbeki(intellectual) to carry out Mandela's economic policies and other visions for SA. Which you must admit Mbeki has done with good results. However these economic policies were mostly aimed at creating a strong middle cla** etc... and the poor were neglected, enter Jacob Zuma(man of the people) he is in my opinion anway, the ideal person to take over after Mbeki. Who in your opinion, when you analyse the available candidates, would have been better suited to succeed Mbeki?

Someone who DOESN'T believe that AIDS can be neutralised by taking a shower, who DOESN'T attempt to sue press figures who comment on him fairly, who DOESN'T sing about machine guns and throwing homosexuals off mountains, who DOESN'T have outmoded attitudes on rape and sex and who ISN'T trying to suppress evidence that could convict him of outrageous corruption. How about that? That fit?

Neither Mbeki nor Zuma are ideal, and although I think Mbeki again would have been worse than Zuma, Tokyo or Cyril would have been much, much better than either of them.

[churchofthe latterdayLatte]

one might argue we have thabo to thank for the lack of an alternative to zuma....that he should have stood aside. what a strange moment to choose to disband the scorpions...

[RearrangedReality]

Shake-up in ANC national executive
 
Riaan Wolmarans | Polokwane, South Africa 
 
21 December 2007 01:45
 
The African National Congress's (ANC) new, 80-member national executive committee (NEC) was announced at the end of the party's 52nd national conference in Polokwane at midnight on Thursday evening.

Topping the list with 2 845 votes (out of 3 605 votes cast) was Winnie Madikizela-Mandela, with Jeff Radebe (2 716) and Zola Skweyiya (2 700) a close second and third.

High up in the voting results were Pallo Jordan, Jeremy Cronin, Jessie Duarte, Lindiwe Sisulu, Sankie Mthembi-Mahanyele and Brigitte Mabandla.

The NEC joins the top six leaders, who were already elected earlier in the week, under the direction of new party leader Jacob Zuma.

Also making it on to the newly enlarged NEC were Tokyo Sexwale, Blade Nzimande, Makhenkesi Stofile and the ANC Youth League's Fikile Mbalula.

Ace Magashule, Valli Moosa, Collins Chabane and Derek Hanekom also made the cut, as did the Yengenis, Tony and Lumka. Manto Tshabalala-Msimang was also elected with 1 591 votes, one vote more than Trevor Manuel.

Cyril Ramaphosa is also on the NEC, as are Nozizwe Madlala-Routledge, Bheki Cele, Angie Motshekga and Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula.

On the downside, those who did not garner enough votes to make the NEC included several ANC heavyweights such as Ronnie Kasrils, Alec Erwin, Geraldine Fraser-Moleketi, Aziz Pahad, Dipuo Peters, Smuts Ngonyama, Mosiuoa Lekota, Essop Pahad, Lindiwe Hendricks, Phumzile Mlambo-Ncguka, Frene Ginwala and Nosimo Balindlela.

Ebrahim Rasool, Popo Molefe, Saki Macozoma, Charles Nqakula and Sello Moloto also had nothing to show at the end of the evening; neither did Ivy Matsepe-Casaburri and Ngconde Balfour.

The conference finally ended with prayer and the singing of the national anthem.

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=328219&area=/ancconference_home/ancconference_news/

ANC national executive committee:

1. Mandela, Winnie 2845

2. Radebe, Jeff 2716

3. Skweyiya, Zola 2700

4. Jordan, Pallo 2645

5. Cronin, Jeremy 2519

6. Duarte, Jessie 2448

7. Sisulu, Lindiwe 2384

8. Mthembi-Mahanyele, Sankie 2291

9. Mabandla, Brigitte 2235

10. Sexwale, Tokyo 2198

11. Nzimande, Blade 2157

12. Stofile, Makhenkesi 2151

13. Gigaba, Malusi 2144

14. Magashule, Ace 2121

15. Mbalula, Fikile 2116

16. Moosa, Valli 2110

17. Potgieter-Gqubule, Febe 2091

18. Chabane, Collins 2043

19. Sisulu, Max 2041

20. Ramatlhodi, Ngoako 2034

21. Yengeni, Tony 2032

22. Nyanda, Siphiwe 2005

23. Hanekom, Derek 1996

24. Mkhize, Zweli 1976

25. Ebrahim, Ebrahim 1964

26. Cele, Bheki 1950

27. Mfeketo, Nomaindia 1943

28. Masetlha, Billy 1937

29. Dlamini, Bathabile 1933

30. Ramaphosa, Cyril 1910

31. Yengeni, Lumka 1907

32. Motshekga, Angie 1906

33. Madlala-Routledge, Nozizwe 1905

34. Godongwana, Enoch 1891

35. Dlamini Zuma, Nkosazana 1885

36. Shabangu, Susan 1775

37. Mokonyane, Nomvula 1756

38. Pule, Dina 1730

39. Bhengu, Ruth 1729

40. Phaahla, Joe 1726

41. Booi, Nyami 1709

42. Mabudafhasi, Joyce 1698

43. Zulu, Lindiwe 1682

44. Tobias, Thandi 1675

45. Love, Janet 1670

46. Shope-Mafole, Lyndall 1642

47. Dlodlo, Ayanda 1641

48. Mthethwa, Nathi 1629

49. Brown, Lynne 1623

50. Kondlo, Ncumisa 1619

51. Mtintso, Thenjiwe 1616

52. Xasa, Fikile 1615

53. Motshekga, Mathole 1613

54. Van Der Merwe, Sue 1593

55. Tshabalala-Msimang, Manto 1591

56. Motsoaledi, Aaron 1591

57. Manuel, Trevor 1590

58. Mthembu, Jackson 1590

59. Tolashe, Sisisi 1574

60. Mabuza, David 1572

61. Shiceka, Sicelo 1532

62. Capa Langa, Zoleka 1506

63. Mashamba, Joyce 1497

64. Manana, Sibongile 1496

65. Jenkins, Hazel 1496

66. Mufamadi, Thaba 1496

67. Lobe, Charlotte 1494

68. Mapisa-Nqakula, Nosiviwe 1490

69. Masualle, Phumulo 1484

70. Moloi-Moropa, Joyce 1470

71. Morule, Playfair 1468

72. Duma, Ndleleni 1447

73. Netshitenzhe, Joel 1437

74. Pandor, Naledi 1431

75. Ndebele, Sibusiso 1427

76. Magadzi, Dikeledi 1424

77. Ntwanambi, Nosipho 1403

78. Joemat-Petterson, Tina 1369

79. Mayende-Sibiya, Noluthando 1345

80. Nkoana-Mashabane, Maite 1337

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2242098,00.html

[tonguetied]

I am easily offended but I easily offend so i suppose there is a balance and as Rob_One once said "briCK has chips on both shoulders so he balances out"

I don't speak for all blacks,(some are offended by the term "black" so if I am offending you monkies....askies!) I can't, blacks are a strange complex people,,,,"I will rather have a white govenment coz Zuma is a rapist" this was said by some black chick,,,I stood there jaw dropped thinking does this woman even know how much blood it took to get rid of the same white govenment she wants back and I thought well thats the problem with white black people or as Busi Mhlongo so eloquently put it."Abelungu abamnyama"

The attrocities commited by white people are not part of the "White" school curriculum so blacks who learn in said schools are detached from black history and unless they are from a "Culturally sensitive family" they loose touch with reality...Wait! Its festive time no need for this bullshit...aight I'll drop it.

Man I feel you so deeply it hurts... I'm no Zuma fan but guys lets analyse the situation. Zuma was charged with rape and was also found innocent. Whether or not he was stupid enough to sleep with an HIV possitive girl is not a question on his capabilities of running a country but rather his psychological capacity.
And secondly, the arms deal happened while our President was in power, now I'm sorry but for a president to claim that he knew nothing at the time scares me. Surely your father know who is sleeping in his house a any given night , especially one who claim to know so much. I love Thabo Mbeki but I can't shake the feeling that even thought he might not have taken part in the Arms Deal crap , he certainly knew something about it. He was just strategic in revealing the truth.
And as for a cracker running our country again, that shit is just ridiculous. My people didn't fight tooth and nale jus so we can hand back our country on a silver platter. The sad reality is we actually do not have a credible successor. If Thabo Mbeki severs for five more years I fear of the possibilities of a dictatorship as for Zuma askies bandla he simply can not do it.
So if there are any takers I honestly feel that some of you might do a brilliant job

[solarman]

azanian souljahs,
Zuma has dug a pit for himself, now he shall easily lay himself to rest and bury himself!!!Now i'm not a mbeki fan either but..........
All charges against him were once jus against him alone, now the charges are against the leader of the so called liberation movement itself!!!ANC!!!!!Black leadership has really taken a dent. mbeki and terror(with a**istance from vavi, mbalula and blade, sharp as ever) have set this up so easy while white liberals are sitting and watching as the dogs fight over a meatless bone and  do the math!!

aluta continua