Get Dropox | Luno Bitcoin | Ovex Crypto | Binance | Get Free Crypto - Morpher
Africasgateway.com

CHINA IN AFRICA, what R your thoughts?

Naturelle

  • AG Moderator
  • AG Veteran
  • *****
    • Posts: 2520
    • REP: +11/-21
  • rise.
    • View Profile
    • Butan Wear
The speed with which China has achieved its African breakthrough is nothing short of stunning. For the last four decades, it was France alone among global powers that paid consistent, high-level attention to Africa. French-African summits became fixed biannual rituals, a sort of geopolitical high ma**, as they came to be called, meant to bolster France's place in the world and to harness Africa's economies to France's.

Suddenly, even France's ties to the continent, which date back centuries and include periods of slavery, conquest, colonization and what some have called neocolonization, look decidedly old hat.

The new Chinese player on the block carries none of the historical baggage of its Western counterparts, and has been completely uninhibited in its new African embrace.

Having begun not long ago from a very small base, in the last year or so, China surpa**ed Britain as Africa's third-largest trading partner, behind the United States and France. China may still be a developing country in some respects, but it has also recently zoomed past the World Bank as a lender to the continent, which should tell us something both about China's ambition and Western generosity.

China's leaders have not only summoned their African counterparts to Beijing. In recent years, they have also traveled to Africa with a frequency that leaves their Western counterparts in the dust. This year, in the space of six months, the Chinese president, prime minister and foreign minister all made multicountry visits to the continent.

Just listen to the words of Olusegun Obasanjo:
"From our a**essment, this is the century of China to lead the world," Obasanjo said. "And when you are leading the world we want to be very close behind you."

Many in the West have focused on China's African advance as a threat to their interests. Such criticisms of this latter day scramble are driven by a poor understanding of the stakes for the world, or simply by bad faith. But just as there is real opportunity for Africa in the surging Chinese interest, there are real potential dangers. Africans may have grown weary of the preachiness of the West about democracy and free markets and human rights, and especially about the casual inconsistency, even hypocrisy, with which such notions have been applied in a world whenever they bump up against more tangible interests.

With an ardent new suitor on the scene, feelings of exhilaration may still be too fresh and too powerful to coolly weigh what exactly China has to offer and to distinguish the good from the bad in terms of Africa's own interests.

If one takes China at its own word, though, there are already distinct reasons to worry. China has shown no qualms building a lucrative oil industry in Sudan in the midst of a genocide about which Beijing has found very little to say. In Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe, an African nation with far better than average prospects driven into the ground by a mean spirited and capricious dictator, China has provided technologies to security services enabling them to reinforce their repression, while gobbling up contracts in mining and other industries.

All of this can be placed under the heading "Business is business," which is how a former foreign minister actually explained Beijing's investments in Sudan, which now supplies 7 percent of this country's oil imports. A slightly more politic phrase frequently heard from China is the pledge not to interfere in other countries' internal affairs.

"We believe that people in different regions and countries, including those in Africa, have their right and ability to handle their own issues," said Prime Minister Wen Jiabao during a visit to Egypt in June.

Besides a grating hint of selfishness contained in this kind of language, even a pa**ing familiarity with African realities suffices to know that no-strings-attached commerce and investment is a recipe for disaster.

The grand malady of Africa is its lack of institutions, of good governance and of a functioning pact between state and subject, and a trade in raw materials alone, no matter how booming, is unlikely to fix this.

While democracy and accountabili ty are spreading, far too many African leaders still live as if there is no tomorrow, grabbing up whatever they can now for themselves.

The problem is that tomorrow already looms troublingly on the horizon. Africa has the fastest-growing population of any continent. By 2025, it will equal China's 1.3 billion people, according to the United Nations. By 2050, there will be 1.94 billion Africans.

One thing that is certain today is that the current raw materials boom will not last forever, nor will Africa's natural resources themselves. With populations increasing this rapidly, the threat of laissez-faire, see-no-evil trade that fails to harness revenue to the real needs of Africans is not a threat to the West. It is a menace to the entire world.


Nar8iv

  • AG Elite Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1391
    • REP: +3/-3
    • View Profile
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott_williams/
so let's say that george bush's 5 nation africa tour is reactive.
why is he giving aid to tanzania ( governance blah blha blah)
what's the real reason?

the chinese have stakes in standard bank.so yeah i can believe what you say there.


Naturelle

  • AG Moderator
  • AG Veteran
  • *****
    • Posts: 2520
    • REP: +11/-21
  • rise.
    • View Profile
    • Butan Wear
Its not my article:
I'm just reading up and gathering bits from here and there.
Read this below:

SOME of the Chinese officials who visited Angola’s president, José Eduardo dos Santos, last December, must have been embarra**ed. Nine months before, China’s export bank, Eximbank, had approved a $2bn line of credit to enable Angola to reconstruct infrastructure - including electricity, railways and administrative buildings - destroyed during 30 years of civil war. In return China would receive 10,000 barrels of oil a day.


blaqsouljah

  • AG Elite Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1161
    • REP: +3/-0
    • View Profile
China looks at what its needs are and then goes about fulfilling that need. The one thing we have to remember as South Africa is that we cannot complain about Chinese interests in this country as there are more South African companies in China than there are Chinese companies in South Africa. As for the rest of the continent - China has made it clear that it will not interfere with internal matters. That in itself is not reason to do business in areas of conflict, but that didn't stop French and American logging countries from operating in Liberia during the worst period of the civil unrest.

The west has called China the Red Threat because they have the money to spend in return for resources. About 15 months ago China acquired mining rights to the amount of US$ 800 billion for the platinum that stretches almost the entire Zimbabwe / South Africa border. The amount of oil that China gets from Angola has nothing on the amount of oil the United States and France have received. If you look at it, the United States signed tax breaks with Angola just after Dos Santos came to power in 1979. These deals would allow the US to get oil from Cabinda at a price that would stay fixed for over 15 years - regardless of how the oil markets were performing. Dos Santos in return also receives a dollar per barrel of oil exported out of Angola - Angola produces an excess of 1 million barrels of oil per day, and this started in the mid 80s.

The issue, as the article states, is that there are no institutions that will govern the trade between many African states and China. The rest of the world do it as well - but none of them are as brash about doing business as China are. I happen to know Teodoro Nguema Obiang rather well (some people say I shouldn't say that too loudly in public), who happens to the son of the president of Equatorial Guinea, and that country is also oil rich. Here you have a situation of a country that has revenues exceeding US$ 3 billion a year from oil production, but there are no institutions nor adequate legislation that governs how such industries should be operated. They too will soon do business with China - the west is going to scream murder at this one as well. Obiang has a couple of houses in Cape Town which were seized by the government in lieu of payment.

The point I am getting to is that, yes China does adopt a parasitic  / predatory course of action when it comes to business but the responsibility to dictate any and all transactions with China lie solely at the feet of the African states and their institutions.
My parents said i could be whatever i wanted, so i chose to become an a**hole


Naturelle

  • AG Moderator
  • AG Veteran
  • *****
    • Posts: 2520
    • REP: +11/-21
  • rise.
    • View Profile
    • Butan Wear
The point I am getting to is that, yes China does adopt a parasitic  / predatory course of action when it comes to business but the responsibility to dictate any and all transactions with China lie solely at the feet of the African states and their institutions.
This is problematic because not all African states have these institutions and bodies set up to protect the interest sof the people. The owners of the resources.
They are known to bring in their own labour force all the way from China. I find agreements very parasitic and self serving.

It's not right to think that all teh people who sign these trade exchange agreements are corrupt officials who pay themselves secret commissions but more and more it feels that way. It's as though we are selling ourselves short all over again.

KFC isisn't good for you, I don't touch that shyt, it's imperialism on your plate but at least I know they hire locals it's more than i can say for Useng store where I do go to buy green thai curry and beef in soy sauce.


Nar8iv

  • AG Elite Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1391
    • REP: +3/-3
    • View Profile
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott_williams/
Quote
In return China would receive 10,000 barrels of oil a day.

ha ha , what else ne?


http://www.cfr.org/publication/9557/


How extensive are China's oil interests in Africa?

China's voracious demand for energy to feed its booming economy has led it to seek oil supplies from African countries including Sudan, Chad, Nigeria, Angola, Algeria, Gabon, Equatorial Guinea, and the Republic of Congo. The U.S. Energy Information Administration says China accounted for 40 percent of total growth in global demand for oil in the last four years; in 2003, it surpa**ed Japan as the world's second-largest oil consumer, after the United States. In the first ten months of 2005, Chinese official sources say, Chinese companies invested a total of $175 million in African countries, primarily on oil exploration projects and infrastructure. On January 9, state-owned Chinese energy company CNOOC Ltd. announced it would buy a 45 percent stake in an offshore oil field in Nigeria for $2.27 billion. China already has a significant presence in many African countries, notably Sudan: China takes 64 percent of Sudan's oil exports. "China is very deeply engaged in exploiting Africa's oil resources," says Elizabeth Economy, C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and Director for Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations.

holy cow.


Makhi The Heart Beat

  • AG Elite Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1009
    • REP: +1/-10
    • Gender:Male
    • View Profile
too much is articulated on this thread,its early in the morning,i cant read this much...immma hit it back tho
Its beyond/

The Elders are above all/

Above all!!/

- Bongani krushen Cripper Demka...

R.I.P my brother I miss you so much.


The Mighty Loks

  • AG Veteran
  • *****
    • Posts: 2917
    • REP: +37/-66
    • Gender:Female
    • View Profile
At the cost of what though? China has been supplying most of the war ridden countries with  arms and they still intend to. They might be contributing immensely towards the GDP of these countries but the money and arms are fueling these wars and costing a hell of a lot of innocent lives. China has a morally corrupt perception of business. They don't care what happens in our African countries as long as they get their, which to me is wrong.


Naturelle

  • AG Moderator
  • AG Veteran
  • *****
    • Posts: 2520
    • REP: +11/-21
  • rise.
    • View Profile
    • Butan Wear
We need know how not handouts. We need them to share the skills not the money coz if we have the skills then we can do it our selves and be self sustaining. loans = longterm high inteest debt, training locals in areas that are identified by locals= gradual development.

We don't need food aid in Zimbabwe: We need training in farming methods and resources to build the infrastructure needed to ensure productivity of the land. How can the bread basket be going hungry.

The people know what they need but they don't have the power.






The Mighty Loks

  • AG Veteran
  • *****
    • Posts: 2917
    • REP: +37/-66
    • Gender:Female
    • View Profile
China, America and the rest of the 1st world countries are taking full advantage of the situation in Africa and unfortunately our governors are power hungry idiots who don't think beyond today. We will run out of the resources and by the looks of things we'll do so sooner rather than later. Then what. Our people will have all the infrastructures and no knowledge on how to use them. We do need training and thats one thing the Chinese companies are not doing, instead they set up these companies and hire their own people.


blaqsouljah

  • AG Elite Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1161
    • REP: +3/-0
    • View Profile
We need know how not handouts. We need them to share the skills not the money coz if we have the skills then we can do it our selves and be self sustaining. loans = longterm high inteest debt, training locals in areas that are identified by locals= gradual development.

We don't need food aid in Zimbabwe: We need training in farming methods and resources to build the infrastructure needed to ensure productivity of the land. How can the bread basket be going hungry.

The people know what they need but they don't have the power.






development is never altruistic in nature. the model of development used by the west for so many decades never involved skills transfer, and the promotion of ownership on any level of policy development and implementation. there was very little infrastructure developed for the sole purpose of the embetterment of the lives of the majority - all development was purely for the efficient transfer of exploited resources. the chinese have adopted that practice as well.

there is an urgent need to develop the skills of the people, but it is very hard to convince people in conflict areas to put down their guns and pick up tools and a pen. it is easier to get something using a gun - skills transfer takes too long to yield results especially if you believe that the state that is meant to protect you is the main threat to your well being. and the fact that any socio-economic improvement is not attributed to the people, and all financial yield is divided by those in the higher echelons of power.

zimbabwe is a really sad case. there was no transfer of skills - the institutional memory, and expertise was lost without having been transferred. this is something that we see in many african countries.
My parents said i could be whatever i wanted, so i chose to become an a**hole


RuSh

  • AG Veteran
  • *****
    • Posts: 4088
    • REP: +1/-0
    • Gender:Male
  • beware of the lioness
    • View Profile
    • www.rushay.org
they buying us up bit by bit and we oblige to be friends with everybody.lets put the tag up AFRICA FOR SALE with its slaves
live on the lunch table
Touched fables
Ducked labels
cafeter one heat em live for the terrordome stables
Signed to Rawkus
I'd rather be mouth f***ed by Nazis unconscious


The Angry Hand of God

  • I'm better than you.
  • AG Veteran
  • *****
    • Posts: 6339
    • REP: +31/-87
    • Gender:Male
  • Medium Pimping...
    • View Profile
I know that this may sound shallow, but my biggest problem with these bastards is that they dont ship any of their hot girls this way.

Only the ugly unattractive ones with no a** and then they tease us by showing the hot ones with a** in their movies. that's just wrong.

Sorry, but that is a**hole like behaviour and I just thought I should bring this to your attention as well, while we're on the topic of the Chinese.

Carry on now.




oints

  • AG Veteran
  • *****
    • Posts: 3831
    • REP: +34/-56
    • Gender:Male
  • the god san-hedrin
    • View Profile
forgive me if i seem to sway a bit of course. China as of course we all know is the fastest growing nation in the world, at a rate of approximatly 10% per annum. now with this growth the country accumulates different and more cost effective ways each day of utelising its endowed resources. naturaly since we live in a "global economy" many countries take it upon themselves to reach out to nations less fortunate than themselves (thus growing and expanding their wealth) often under the guise of a**isting them out of their unfourtunate economic situations. China is no different but i argue that they unlike some capitalist states have a degree of sincerity in what they do.

Africa, for as far back as history has been recorded has always been at the recieving end of these so called aids and a**isitances...bodies such as the world bank, the IMF, and the WTO formed under what i call the coaxion and the puppetiering of the US have always maintained that they stand for exactly that, aiding the "less fortunate".

now, if your a scholar of economics and economic thought you should know about Joseph Stiglitz who was the first to outwarldy critisise these bodies mentioned above, maintaining that they dance to the beat of the US drum and as such come only to the aid of countries of which the US itself has vested interests in.

Policies advocated by the IMF and the Worldbank for example among other things "protect the owners of knowledege and advancement" ...(e.g) say a multinational corporation from the US wants to invest and expand in SA, why, because there is cheap labour here and relaxed tax laws coupled with stable inflation rate (economic stability). more importantly they come to the south because they reserve the right to confer to SA what they know about what they do, in plain english the WTO, IMF, all protect them under law, they can if they want, be the only ones who do it best (this falls under what are known as the property right laws).

china unlike the US is not entirely a capitalist state...they come into a coutry and invest in it, the diffrence with them is that they bring along with them skills on how to do it ourselves (these are all underlying trade aggrements with China: our labour in exchange for education on how shit works). in other words they educate the labour force and encourage self sustained growth...

now do you think the US likes this, Why do you think Condelessa Rise was in China preaching transparency about Chinese policy on growth, what their doing now is using Tibet to get in through China's backdoor so as to enforce their own proven destructive and  narcisistic polilcies of Globalisation (they did the same thing to Japan when they couldnt understand how a country with virtually no natural resources could catch up and eventuall forge ahead of them in economic power).

Read up on Joseph Stiglitz.


Makhi The Heart Beat

  • AG Elite Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1009
    • REP: +1/-10
    • Gender:Male
    • View Profile
I know that this may sound shallow, but my biggest problem with these bastards is that they dont ship any of their hot girls this way.

Only the ugly unattractive ones with no a** and then they tease us by showing the hot ones with a** in their movies. that's just wrong.



lol.

yeah, the one's around here (Grahamstown) are so wack they look retarded
Its beyond/

The Elders are above all/

Above all!!/

- Bongani krushen Cripper Demka...

R.I.P my brother I miss you so much.