Originality

[MOFF G]

i like it that u saying STYLES, as there is a difference in styles nd genres. those were styles of hip hop, we can yep attribute it to other genres influencing hip hop.

but i now notice that this is a topic that can drag on for years.
the only originality that is true is one being original to theyselves, ben sharpa is original to self, hymphmatic is original to self,(this is beat wise nd lyrically)

can sum1 answer as to what really makes a HIP HOP JOINT? how can u ultimately cla**ify sum as hip hop, what fundamentals is we looking at when we cla**ify what hi hop is?
maybe from then on we can start understanding better......

[Gemini aka Gembot]

Let me put it to you this way. Timbaland doesn't sound like RZA. Niether does RZA try to sound like Timbaland even though they both gravitate towards awkward sounds and quirky grooves. Despite Timbaland being the hottest producer, Dr. Dre won't make beats like him. Even though Dr. Dre is regarded as the best at his game, The Neptunes make their own shit. They're from the south like Mannie Fresh but sound completely different from each other. DJ Premier will never try to sound like 9th Wonder. Dilla, although inspired by Tribe Called Quest, won't make beats like them. Why are all these producers bent on sounding like themselves....simple, Trade mark. You see in industry we define ourselves by our brand which is identified by our logo. A producer's logo is his sound. eg. Premier has the chop and go sampling thing. Dr. Dre has his high wailing key sounds, Timbo has the stuttering drum. While they all may not use these techniques today is not the point. The point is, New York niggaz will never make a G-Funk track if they have their own shit going. South niggaz will stick to crunk so help them. Why? Because each of those sounds define a region, its people and their culture. eg. Bubblegoose, Timbalands baggy jeans, break loops = Eastcoast. Candy painted caddillacs, diamond grills, 808's = dirty South. Chuck Taylors, T-Shirts, Analogue synth ba** grooves = Westcoast. You see all these places have DISTICT features whether musical and in their imagery. Mzansi doesn't have that yet. Slapping a crunk drumloop over a Mbaqanga sample is not being original. Eastcoast niggaz have been slapping drumloops over obscure samples for years. Westcoast niggaz did it first with 808's...so please...Jozi is not original, experiemental, yes but not original. When I say original I mean like when Wu Tang Clan came out with their unique brand of grimy. It sounded like nothing before it. Even when Dr. Dre dropped the Chronic...it sounded like nothing before it. When A Tribe Called Quest dropped Bonitta Applebum...fresh. When Timbaland produced Aaliyah's "Are You That Somebody", original. It had no inspiration except the producers creative intuition to be different. South Africa as a sound is heavily dirivative and we rely heavily on our American contemporary's abillities and techniques. We need to be more confident in our street cultures and embrace them from there create a sound as distict as Boom Bap is to New York, crunk is to the South and G Funk is to the west. And not by putting a Leta Mbuli sample with a Stimela drum break. Its a start but its not the way. We need our own drum kits and patterns, our own instruments to define our sound and most of all our own vibe. Crunk doesn't sound even close to boom bap even though they're both hiphop...think about it

[Dpleezy]

Let me put it to you this way. Timbaland doesn't sound like RZA. Niether does RZA try to sound like Timbaland even though they both gravitate towards awkward sounds and quirky grooves. Despite Timbaland being the hottest producer, Dr. Dre won't make beats like him. Even though Dr. Dre is regarded as the best at his game, The Neptunes make their own shit. They're from the south like Mannie Fresh but sound completely different from each other. DJ Premier will never try to sound like 9th Wonder. Dilla, although inspired by Tribe Called Quest, won't make beats like them. Why are all these producers bent on sounding like themselves....simple, Trade mark. You see in industry we define ourselves by our brand which is identified by our logo. A producer's logo is his sound. eg. Premier has the chop and go sampling thing. Dr. Dre has his high wailing key sounds, Timbo has the stuttering drum. While they all may not use these techniques today is not the point. The point is, New York niggaz will never make a G-Funk track if they have their own shit going. South niggaz will stick to crunk so help them. Why? Because each of those sounds define a region, its people and their culture. eg. Bubblegoose, Timbalands baggy jeans, break loops = Eastcoast. Candy painted caddillacs, diamond grills, 808's = dirty South. Chuck Taylors, T-Shirts, Analogue synth ba** grooves = Westcoast. You see all these places have DISTICT features whether musical and in their imagery. Mzansi doesn't have that yet. Slapping a crunk drumloop over a Mbaqanga sample is not being original. Eastcoast niggaz have been slapping drumloops over obscure samples for years. Westcoast niggaz did it first with 808's...so please...Jozi is not original, experiemental, yes but not original. When I say original I mean like when Wu Tang Clan came out with their unique brand of grimy. It sounded like nothing before it. Even when Dr. Dre dropped the Chronic...it sounded like nothing before it. When A Tribe Called Quest dropped Bonitta Applebum...fresh. When Timbaland produced Aaliyah's "Are You That Somebody", original. It had no inspiration except the producers creative intuition to be different. South Africa as a sound is heavily dirivative and we rely heavily on our American contemporary's abillities and techniques. We need to be more confident in our street cultures and embrace them from there create a sound as distict as Boom Bap is to New York, crunk is to the South and G Funk is to the west. And not by putting a Leta Mbuli sample with a Stimela drum break. Its a start but its not the way. We need our own drum kits and patterns, our own instruments to define our sound and most of all our own vibe. Crunk doesn't sound even close to boom bap even though they're both hiphop...think about it

Nice post.

[General Ratzinger van Stilzkin]

Let me put it to you this way. Timbaland doesn't sound like RZA. Niether does RZA try to sound like Timbaland even though they both gravitate towards awkward sounds and quirky grooves. Despite Timbaland being the hottest producer, Dr. Dre won't make beats like him. Even though Dr. Dre is regarded as the best at his game, The Neptunes make their own shit. They're from the south like Mannie Fresh but sound completely different from each other. DJ Premier will never try to sound like 9th Wonder. Dilla, although inspired by Tribe Called Quest, won't make beats like them. Why are all these producers bent on sounding like themselves....simple, Trade mark. You see in industry we define ourselves by our brand which is identified by our logo. A producer's logo is his sound. eg. Premier has the chop and go sampling thing. Dr. Dre has his high wailing key sounds, Timbo has the stuttering drum. While they all may not use these techniques today is not the point. The point is, New York niggaz will never make a G-Funk track if they have their own shit going. South niggaz will stick to crunk so help them. Why? Because each of those sounds define a region, its people and their culture. eg. Bubblegoose, Timbalands baggy jeans, break loops = Eastcoast. Candy painted caddillacs, diamond grills, 808's = dirty South. Chuck Taylors, T-Shirts, Analogue synth ba** grooves = Westcoast. You see all these places have DISTICT features whether musical and in their imagery. Mzansi doesn't have that yet. Slapping a crunk drumloop over a Mbaqanga sample is not being original. Eastcoast niggaz have been slapping drumloops over obscure samples for years. Westcoast niggaz did it first with 808's...so please...Jozi is not original, experiemental, yes but not original. When I say original I mean like when Wu Tang Clan came out with their unique brand of grimy. It sounded like nothing before it. Even when Dr. Dre dropped the Chronic...it sounded like nothing before it. When A Tribe Called Quest dropped Bonitta Applebum...fresh. When Timbaland produced Aaliyah's "Are You That Somebody", original. It had no inspiration except the producers creative intuition to be different. South Africa as a sound is heavily dirivative and we rely heavily on our American contemporary's abillities and techniques. We need to be more confident in our street cultures and embrace them from there create a sound as distict as Boom Bap is to New York, crunk is to the South and G Funk is to the west. And not by putting a Leta Mbuli sample with a Stimela drum break. Its a start but its not the way. We need our own drum kits and patterns, our own instruments to define our sound and most of all our own vibe. Crunk doesn't sound even close to boom bap even though they're both hiphop...think about it

tjo tjo tjo

dis man done spoken yo!

with that said u made me think a bit

how can that be created, a unique South African sound, true to the area and still sound hip hop enough for me to keep listening and yearning for more.

something to really think about.

[MOFF G]

i beg to differ, GEMBOT, we in mzansi do have those original sounds, the problem is that those that remain original in mzansi get subdued by the media promotions, promoting the popular style.


spaza is original mzansi sound and defines the vernac spitters in the cape.
motswako is a true original mzansi sound that defines the NW nd Botswana.
the jsec vernac spits are more kasi driven as we all have noted from the likes of pro nd all of 'em.

shying away from the vernac, the english cats is on they own levels, nd they all is different from the next cat. truly Jsec hip hop in all its styles differs from the cape town hip hop.
i can't compare mzansi hip hop as differently as any other, but all am saying is that we is original, the thing is that most of us tend to follow a certaing popular style of hip hop.
i would the perfect example of that is unrealeased giving us the US type of hip hop and pioneer unit giving us true hip hop that is unrivaled.
we still have to see the cap city emerging up and taking a stand in the industry as they defined sounds nd mellow flows due to the enviroment they in, too laid back( mayb that's why they lackin to step up)

[watziznehmegin]

Let me put it to you this way. Timbaland doesn't sound like RZA. Niether does RZA try to sound like Timbaland even though they both gravitate towards awkward sounds and quirky grooves.

One is from Staten Island, and the other is from Virginia (mid-atlantic), very different environment, and surroundings, ultimately both producers grew with a different relationship to the culture and it reflects in their music.

Despite Timbaland being the hottest producer

this point is debatable, who wants to sit here and argue taste

, Dr. Dre won't make beats like him. Even though Dr. Dre is regarded as the best at his game,

I feel like time plays an important role in one finding their sound as well, Dre is from the 80's and came in using very different equipment, than the early stuff you heard from Timbo, regardless, Cali and VA are worlds apart, totally different setting

 The Neptunes make their own shit.

they from VA too


They're from the south like Mannie Fresh but sound completely different from each other.

Mannie is from N.O. (Nawlins) and came up around '86-'87 with Gregory D doing the ba** sound you heard which was heavily influenced from the Miami - Tampa - Tallaha**ee sound (Florida sound) that was big in the 80's i.e. 2 live crew, jam pony express, it wasn't til' 10 years later, that he helped establish the sound N.O. is known for, i.e. Soulja Slim, Wayne, Juvenile..., Neptunes being from VA (one's from the Gulf of Mexico, other from the mid-atlantic) there is no reason they would sound the same, ultimately they are making music for a very different crowd.

DJ Premier will never try to sound like 9th Wonder.

What came first the chicken or the egg? (jokes) Premier has got eons of experience on 9th, he is a legend, although Premier moved to NY from Houston, his sound is a raw reflection of brooklyn, brooklyn without the rest of NY would still be the 4th biggest country in the U.S., (it's a huge boro with mad culture and history), 9th is a lot younger than Premo, he is from N.C. and doesn't even use the same gear or have the same approach to making beats as Premo, but am sure he learned a thing or two from listening to his records.

Dilla, although inspired by Tribe Called Quest, won't make beats like them.

Hold Up, Hold Up, since '93 (Midnight Marauders) Dilla has played an integral part in the sound of Tribe, he was one third of The Ummah, alongside Tip and Muhammed, and has definitely made his presence felt on those records, I remember when Qtips house in Jersey got burnt down, and he lost all his uncles vinyl, trust Dilla came through,... dilla in part is the Tribe sound.

Why are all these producers bent on sounding like themselves....simple, Trade mark.

Because ultimately if you spend your life trying to copycat somebody else, you will never persevere, and if you are that dedicated to your craft, that you grow beyond the point of learning from the masters, and become the master of your own craft, the tools you use, how you use them, and what inspired you, along with how well you communicate all that is what is going to define your product. Beyond a marketing stand point.

You see in industry we define ourselves by our brand which is identified by our logo.

We are merely channeling the influences of that what affects us, and the culture that surrounds us. It's all part of a bigger plan. I would rather say we are defined by our corporate brand, that what defines the brand is more than just the artist, but the culture that supports and surrounds the artist.

A producer's logo is his sound. eg. Premier has the chop and go sampling thing.

He's not the only one, although he definitely mastered the art, and a beat produced by him is very distinguishable, he is not the only one who works like this, just the best at it, but there were mad heads, using the SP1200 back then, doing the same, the SP is somewhat limited in its sample time, and Premier will definitely be remembered as a true master at it.

Dr. Dre has his high wailing key sounds,

As of recently Dre has been more responsible for the mixing and engineering side of things, sadly most the beats you hear from Dre, were either from Mel-Man or from Mike "Hitman" Wilson (Hype Williams brother), but these brothers do understand Dre's signature enough to emulate it, and if it gets his stamp of approval, it's a Dre beat. The high wailing key sounds is typical cali. Dre not the only one doing it, simply got the most recognition, making cla**ics, and working on highly successful records, besides he is an innovator on the west coast, from the world cla** wreckin crew days, with his na**al sounding babymoms on records, with the crazy perm and make up, but there were others cultivated by the same environment,


Timbo has the stuttering drum.

I don't really wanna talk about Timbo, more of an R'n'B cat you ask me, more the Teddy Riley kinda guy (who was innovative in a sense you speak of i think, but more pop, you can hear his influence on both Tim and the Neptunes really, in my opinion)

While they all may not use these techniques today is not the point. The point is, New York niggaz will never make a G-Funk track if they have their own shit going.

Masta Ace did Rollin' On Chrome that shit was pretty G'

South niggaz will stick to crunk so help them.

There's more to the south than just that crunk shit, within the south they create different sounds, Houston shit sounds different from Atlanta shit, from New Orleans, Memphis, hell within the cities there are slight differences depending on what side you from, they all get down different.

Why? Because each of those sounds define a region, its people and their culture. eg. Bubblegoose, Timbalands baggy jeans, break loops = Eastcoast. Candy painted caddillacs, diamond grills, 808's = dirty South. Chuck Taylors, T-Shirts, Analogue synth ba** grooves = Westcoast. You see all these places have DISTICT features whether musical and in their imagery.

Yep

Mzansi doesn't have that yet.

Disagree

Slapping a crunk drumloop over a Mbaqanga sample is not being original. Eastcoast niggaz have been slapping drumloops over obscure samples for years. Westcoast niggaz did it first with 808's...so please...Jozi is not original, experiemental, yes but not original.

Ok fine, why we talking about them anyway? They kinda weak...

When I say original I mean like when Wu Tang Clan came out with their unique brand of grimy. It sounded like nothing before it.

Because they lived and breathed an element of the city, which was yet untapped, and created an ill backdrop for some serious shadowboxing, you right, that shit was seriously next when it dropped.

Even when Dr. Dre dropped the Chronic...it sounded like nothing before it.

Yeah true, that sht was G, but all those samples they f***ed with, were already cla**ics in southern california, SoCal still ride to that Zapp&Rogershit to this day, The System and shit, they love that shit...

When A Tribe Called Quest dropped Bonitta Applebum...fresh. When Timbaland produced Aaliyah's "Are You That Somebody", original. It had no inspiration except the producers creative intuition to be different.

They are not the sole merit of this, there is a movement behind it, that with their knowledge of their gear, and musical intelligence were able to tap into and reflect very well. They were inspired, which inspires.

South Africa as a sound is heavily derivative and we rely heavily on our American contemporary's abillities and techniques.

Abilities and Techniques maybe, but most the recording equipment comes from all around the world, from Japan, from Europe, from the U.S., the gear in itself is limited to an extent, so you can only make due with what you have, but who is to say, you can't make it different, less is more, it isn't the equipment that dictates what you do with it, you do, hip-hop in itself is heavily derivative, as is most sample based music, you listen to Barry White - Can't Get Enough LP, I think almost the whole thing has been made into some hip-hop cla**ic.

We need to be more confident in our street cultures and embrace them from there create a sound as distict as Boom Bap is to New York, crunk is to the South and G Funk is to the west.

Yeah fam, I bump music from S.A., I rather like the shit, I think the cats I listen to are really good at what they do, and they represent themselves, without being on the mans thing, from what I can tell there are sveral movements in S.A., several cultures and very different envilronments, I rather like listening to the different things, and find them distinguished from each other, hell I embrace it put it that way, what element of the street culture do you feel lacks presence in the music? something kasi? different drug influences like Mandrax, Heroine, Tik and all that shit that reflect the streets? what is it lacking in your opinion? I like the MC's who can use their head in S.A., they have some of the nicer MC's in the world in my opinion.. perhaps the best is to draw on the history of music, like how they sample samba and bossa nova records in brazil..

And not by putting a Leta Mbuli sample with a Stimela drum break. Its a start but its not the way. We need our own drum kits and patterns, our own instruments to define our sound and most of all our own vibe.

All that is there, Africa birthed the drum, echoing the creation of our universe, there are so many lost rhythms, if anyone should be able to tap into them,it would be those closest to the source.

Crunk doesn't sound even close to boom bap even though they're both hiphop...think about it

As do many other variations and abstractions of light fam, this is inspiring thought,

K.I.M.

[MrC The Rap God Almighty]

^^^ Sho.

That was a mouthful. Answer for every line.LOL !!!


I really don't understand. How does Zuluboy mixing Maskandi with hip-hop or Driemanskaap making songs like "Camagu" not translate into being original ? And even Jozi for that matter  ? They taking local sounds and making their own music with it.

Dre took Parliament Funkadelic records and made the Chronic. Why is that more original than the cats i mentioned ? East coast cats sampled horns and filtered ba** samples from jazz records put them over drum loops and called it boom bap and that developed into a style of hip-hop. Southern cats kept most of what the old school cats did, with emphasis being mainly on drums, double snares,  fast high-hat patterns,etc. They also incorporated a lot of keyboard sounds into their music. Why is this original than what cats are doing out here ?

So if we sample Stimela drum loops and not a Phuzekemisi or a Vusi Ximba vocal then only then we'll say we're original ?

[MOFF G]

SA is mad original in the making of hip hop.

each section has a defined style...it is not being followed so much as everybody wants to be different from the next, but our regions define our sounds. i beg u GEMBOT to start listening to cats with a different ear. we all differ as it is due to the enviroment that has influenced our love for music as a whole and then incorporate that into the hip hop we do.

[The Angry Hand of God]

I think the argument here is about what can we do to create our own specific movement, instead of just following one that is already out there and slapping a SA sample over it.

We still use Boom Bap/crunk/G-funk baselines and drums, instead of coming up with our own sound. This is what the guys are arguing about. I don't really agree, because I do think there are guys who have sculpted their own unique sound, which is instantly recognisable. Most of what we hear on radio though, is just the same old US inspired nonsense, with a Mbaqanga sample over it and an ignorant dj praisng it for being uniquely South african, which it isn't.

If you were to give a Dilla or Madlib or anyone else a crate full of old-school SA vinyl, I think they would be able to do exactly what these local cats are doing. I would even go as far as saying they would be able to do something better, because our artists are so stuck on copying what is being done in the states and being "on an international level", that they forget to be creative.

They try to fit into a mould and creativity is left at the door. Only after they have sculpted something which they deem to be on an international level do they sit down and think, "okay, now how can I make this African. This is what makes it so boring and predictable and unnatural sounding.

[TY-D-CPT-021-NKE]

jesus(lord forgive me) is right...we forced to mould what we do to an international level...question is...if that were your only chance of making it...what would you decide?
being original is one thing and i may sound like a complete a**hole...but we will foreva stay here in africa if we stay origal with our sounds lyrics etc...it will cater for our market...our people...our ears...what about the rest?..

[The CHEF]

Interesting thread thats similar 2 1 I saw once,or is it deja'vu?

Briefly - if U sample and chop the erf out yo sample,doesn't that make that original,or is it the type of samples U using?

I 1s mentioned in a similar discussion elsewhere,nothing nowadays is original bt borrowed 4rm tie past.

As 4 lyrical content,that cn be original and sway the borrowed international infested beat to original too.

To me,if it aint sounding loopish,bt chopped and erf around to sound whole,then thats damn artistic than original.

Signing off 4 2009!

The CHEF(c)

[KGBEATS]

This is origianl shit.. better wake up to this!!

[Gemini aka Gembot]

@ watziznehmegin
THATS MY POINT!!!! RZA is from Staten Island and Timbaland is from Virginia. So Why would a dude from Staten Island wanna sound like a dude from Virginia? DJ Premier reps the East Coast(Even though he's from down South which isn't the point) but he never wanted to sound like The Bomb Squad. And Yes 9th Wonder is younger and uses FL Studio, but he is not trying to sound like Premier coz there is already a DJ Premier. But alot of stuff I hear from here, meaning South Africa, and in terms of production is very derivative. I challenge any of you to give a link to a track(as in beat) thats as Mzansi as Timbaland is original. Completely different from anything thats out there and American and I'll retract my post. When I hear music on the Hype magazine compilations, I hear a lot of American(Mostly east coast inspired and crunk inspired shit) sounding shit. Radio same thing. Its like every producer is the result of their CD and .mp3 collection for real. I wanna hear some shit where I get a buzz like i did when I heard The RZA's music on 36 chambers or Timbalands on Aaliyah's One In A Million or A Tribe Called Quest. Oh by the way watziznehmegin Dilla had nothing to do with Midnight Marauders. Q-Tip was his Manager who got him his first gig on The Pharcyde's Labcabincalifornia, Busta's debut, MadSkillz and De La Soul. Plus there was a review of Beats, Rhymes and Life that he did with Big Mike where he commented on how irritating the chick who speaks through out the Midnight Marauders album was annoying and how glad he was they got rid of her for Beats..Before he met Q-Tip he used to f*** with this Detroit nigga named Phat Kat and Proof from D 12 plus a couple other detroit niggaz. Mannie Fresh doesn't even sound like 95 South or 69 Boys even though his beats are drenched in 808. Tribe had 3 albums prior to Dilla entering the picture, Midnight Marauders being the result of their progression as evidenced by the countless tracks they did for the likes of The Crooklyn Dodgers '94 squad, Craig Mack, Da Bush Babies, shit even Young MC. All in the vein of Midnight Marauders all before Dilla entered the picture...which was on Beats, Rhymes and Life, by the way, under the Ummah umbrella. Dr Dre came up on the SP and Ultimate Breaks and Beats(Listen to Eazy Duzz It and Straight Outta Comption)and graduated to the MPC for its quality. While he may have always had layers of live ba** grooves (ask Chris 'Glove' Taylor)or guitar riffs(Stan The guitar Man)he used the same equipment as any producer of that day, meaning break loops and a drum machine/sampler. Timbaland actually came up with similar beatmaking techniques as Dr Dre. You know Live instrumentation, Loops and drum breaks (Al Green's "I'm Glad You're Mine" is a favourite of his.). See how the Neptunes are vrom V.A too but don't sound like Timbaland? Thats my point.
9th Wonder does use the same approach as Premier meaning Solid Kicks, Crisp Snares and old soul and Jazz loops which is actually the very basis for the East Coast's Boom Bap sound that exploded in the 90's. example?(Gang Starrr Daily Operation, Little Brother The Listening). "I remember when Qtips house in Jersey" - That happened in 97 or 98....
Masta Ace did Rollin' On Chrome?!!!? Don't you mean Sitting On Chrome and the track was called Born To Roll with the .Inc and that is like one New York cat against thousands who don't try to make G-Funk but stick to Boom Bap. By The way Dre was the first to use high pitched wailing keyboard sounds as evidenced on NWA's Niggaz For Life album on the track, "Alwayz Into Somethin'" in 1991. I dare you to disagree. And while Premier might have not invented the chop and go technique, he put it into focus as evidenced on "Hard To Earn" and "The Sun Rises In The East." True Dre's G-Funk sound is inspired by Zapp (which track did he lift from Zapp by the way.) and Parliament (Dre Day, Let Me Ride, The Roach(Chronic Outro), he replayed most of that shit. Plus Mel Man, Chris Taylor, Daz and all the motherf***ers you claim Dr Dre jacked his beats from have failed to do anythihng noteworthy after Dre, so it begs the question, who's fooling who? Plus their beats don't sound nearly as crisp or refined as Dre's outside of his projects. Gimme one Mzansi cat thats as original as the american producers I have mentioned and while you're at it give a link so I can hear that shit. Wu Tang Recorded 36 Chambers on bullshit equipment when compared to the sophistaced P.C's and Macs out there and they still pulled out cla**ic shit. Good music is from the heart not your equipment. 

[Mega]

Hopefully this will put an end to this endless argument. I got this from some topic about the "Process of Thought" and I fully agree with it.

Originality is relative because it is a measure of distance. The further something is from another similar idea the more original it becomes. For example, at the time of Tetris’s creation, there were no other games like it. Therefore its distance to other existing ideas about games is very far and was considered to be very original.

Since this is all in your head, the measure of distance between ideas can be a bit vague and subjective.

Originality is subjective because it is based on perception. If a product is unlike anything you know, then it is unique to you. The same may not be true for the next person because he may know somethings that it resembles. This is why people tend to argue over how original something appears.

By the very nature of trying to be original, you are already dependent on other people’s ideas. You cannot distance yourself from other ideas, if you don’t know what ideas already exist.

[Gemini aka Gembot]

Thats like saying there is no such thing as an original idea and that my friend is bullshit. Tetris was the first puzzle game (even though it started out as a science experiement.)The Super Mario Brothers is a testiment of originality and stretching boundries(Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario 64 anyone?)There were no games like them before them and thats a fact. It has nothing to do with me not being in Japan where somehow game companies were all in a similar culture to develope the ultimate platform game. No Mario was the first and the original. Same goes for Wu Tang's 36 Chambers. There was nothing like it before it. Nobody sounded like Timbaland before Timbaland. And if you say european jungle producers came with Timbos style first I'm gonna shoot somebody. I'd never heard anything like Aaliyah's, "Are You That Somebody." Originality is what it is. The prototype of a movement or a trend and most of the producers I mentioned icluuding. Dr Dre, Timbaland, A Tribe Called Quest, The Bomb Squad, Marley Marl, are all prototypes, the original mould to what hip hop has resulted too. Yes they too have had influenes in the early stages of their production but they blossomed into their own and if you're telling me that Mzansi producers have done so....prove it give me a link to at least 5 joints that honestly sound as original as they are potential trend setters.