Graffiti Messes Up Our Country Up

[DarkBlood]

Now that I have your attention I qualify it: CRAPPY graffiti messes our country up.

I travel to training every day (except Saturdays and Sundays) and go on the train. From there until I reach my destination it is graffiti central. I have been wondering and would like someone who actually LIVES graffiti to explain it to me: Why do you deface property for a shitty design?

I have seen graffiti make something look so run down and dingy. It makes the area seem so imporverished and low cla** and I am always left with a sense of anger. It's like someone walking around this beaufitul nation of ours and parking a deuce everywhere. It's little wonder why people talk so foul about this beautiful country of ours.

Having said that though, not all graffiti is bad. I actually do not mind it - when that shit is GOOD. But the stuff that I see looks like baby art - a child finger painting. I feel like if you're going to deface public property than make it look bloody good. I am as anti-establishment as any rational and educated man can get but spraying crap designs on someone's all is hardly sticking it to the man now is it?

I am not a die-hard graffiti artist and it is an element of hip hop that I have not gotten into. I do not shun it either. I DO shun poor 'artwork' all over our country. I wonder if ACTUAL graffiti artists get pissed off seeing this crap the same way I get pissed off when I hear little kids bumping 50 Cent and claiming that to be hip hop. It's just polluting hip hop as far as I am concerned. It's pop, and it sells and high five to him to him for that, But to call it HIP HOP just makes me spit Blood.

Do graffiti artists feel the same when they see that trash in public run down areas?

I am honestly looking for a good discussion about this element of hip hop which is probably the most untamed by commercial endeavours. Paint companies like Dulux and other companies like Sprite have tried to tame this wild art but they all failed miserably. I think it's too raw to tame.

What are the feelings around the use of graffiti (ones that I see as crap) to just plain make our cities look like poor places to stay away from?

[sero147]

i cannot profess to be an expert, but the ugly stuff you see, those are just kids/toys starting up and we all have to start somewhere right, the "graffiti you dont mind" the same artist was doing all the stuff that you probably think is bad and now you appreciate their works.

it is the whole process of being a graffiti writer you start with a tag, then do throwups and then move on to pieces or maybe productions. it is quite hypocritical that there is graffiti you like and some that you dont like it is all the same thing it is either you like it or you dont... dont get me wrong i am not attacking you or some shit but that is the general argument from society that the pieces are nice but that tagging shit is not appreciated...

"What are the feelings around the use of graffiti (ones that I see as crap) to just plain make our cities look like poor places to stay away from?"   My feelings around that is that i do not want to stay in  a city where the real stuff ( homelessness etc) that is happening is swept under the carpet so that it makes a few tourists or people feel that the city is safe and therefore ignoring all the social ills to concentrate on kids, even grown ups, putting up their name up instead of addressing those social ills...

[DarkBlood]

I get your point. The covering up or social ills though is not the places I am talking about.

Have you ever seen a house hold where the place looks just plain crap and run down? The curtains are old and haven't been renewed in over 20 years; the walls haven't been painted and are cracked and peeling; the windows themselves need changing but nothing has been done about it. You look at the parents of the household and say 'This is terrible. How can anyone live in these conditions? How can anyone let their CHILDREN live in these conditions?'

Now imagine that SAME home used to have renervations done but everytime new windows were put up, those dam kids broke them; every time the walls were painted, those dam kids would piss on them and throw magwabethe at them (sand bombs); ever time the curtains were changed those dam kids would pull at them and whipe their noses with them. All that money is just gone in the sniff of a nose and it leaves the parent wondering 'Why should I even bother making this place look nice? Look like something worth being proud of? It's a waste of money.'

As a result, NO ONE in the house is proud of their home. They throw their trash and dirty cloths anywhere and just leave dirty dishes all over the place. Why bother?

I feel that graffiti does the same thing. I feel municipalities and enterprises or even private wealthy individuals have the same sentiment as the 'parental figures' - not by nature of their wealth but by the nature that they have the funds to repair.

As for hypocracy, I disagree. We all have our liberty to appreciate one thing and not like another. It's not hypocritical to love Chiefs and hate Pirates is it? There is some art that we look at and we like, and some that we don't. We do it with many things: Cars, houses, teams, songs. It's not about the art itself - so much as the standard of the art.

But I suppose you are right, a kid's got to start some where and abandoned factories I suppose are far better than the new flat complex erected in the neighbourhood.

Still though, it really makes some metropolitan areas look plain shit (the 'finger painting' ones) and I have kept to the teaching: Don't shit where you sleep.

[sero147]

i think that your argument is based on the "broken windows" theory... which is if there is broken window left unattended , it gives off the idea that the place is neglected and therefore attracts criminal elements.which is bullshit in my humble opnion, the authorities feel that by stopping graffiti the criminal elements will be gone, if i am going to commit a crime i dont look for broken windows i will commit the crime regardless.

there are certain rules that most writers try to live by some of them are; dont paint on private property unless you have permission from the owner, no churches or government buildings or schools, the rest i feel is fair game... what is the use of painting somewhere you know that whatever you did is going to be painted over before anyone sees it? ( fame being one of the motivating factors in graffiti)...

i probably used the wrong word by saying hypocritical, but you cannot divorce the two, like i said it is part and parcel of graffiti... what i meant to say was let us not look at the beautiful pictures or murals and then the part which does not fit what is aestheticaly acceptable be deemed ugly.

[The Angry Hand of God]

Good topic. Will come back later.

I just got clowned by Bheki Cele. f***ing a**hole.

[Papa ThReAdS]

Good topic. Will come back later.

I just got clowned by Bheki Cele. f***ing a**hole.

Are you going to be part of the police orgy going down later on tonight?

[DarkBlood]

i think that your argument is based on the "broken windows" theory... which is if there is broken window left unattended , it gives off the idea that the place is neglected and therefore attracts criminal elements.

How the hell did you get to THAT conclusion? Have you read my argument of bad graffiti as me saying it births criminal activity when what I was saying is that it makes the place look like nothing someone can be proud of?

I think you have led yourself down a road I didn't even pave...in my equivalently humble an opinion.

[The Angry Hand of God]

I still wanna comment on this, but I keep getting called off to something else.

For now all I ask is, are yo in the ANC youth league?

[DarkBlood]

For now all I ask is, are yo in the ANC youth league?

That is the funniest thing someone asked me since a friend wondered if I am in the ZCC. Lol. 

No. I am not in the ANC Youth League. I do not respect that group and wouldn't want to be affiliated with them in any way.

I'd love to hear your thoughts though. Stop getting your time hijacked. Hehe. Did you and Bheki kiss and make up?

[sero147]

"Have you ever seen a house hold where the place looks just plain crap and run down? The curtains are old and haven't been renewed in over 20 years; the walls haven't been painted and are cracked and peeling; the windows themselves need changing but nothing has been done about it. You look at the parents of the household and say 'This is terrible. How can anyone live in these conditions? How can anyone let their CHILDREN live in these conditions?'

Now imagine that SAME home used to have renervations done but everytime new windows were put up, those dam kids broke them; every time the walls were painted, those dam kids would piss on them and throw magwabethe at them (sand bombs); ever time the curtains were changed those dam kids would pull at them and whipe their noses with them. All that money is just gone in the sniff of a nose and it leaves the parent wondering 'Why should I even bother making this place look nice? Look like something worth being proud of? It's a waste of money.'

As a result, NO ONE in the house is proud of their home. They throw their trash and dirty cloths anywhere and just leave dirty dishes all over the place. Why bother?"

THAT is how i got to my conclusion

[DarkBlood]

Hang on hang on hang on.....I'm lost. Where were we?

[bean]

I'm not a graffiti artist, but I appreciate the art form. With that being said, I'd like to know from you DarkBlood, how you came to overlook how your choice of establishments to take a leaf from imply otherwise to you being anti-establishment. From my understanding of your argument, I could easily ask the same of the visual pollution we get forced to eye on the daily simply because it is backed by monetary virtue. Is it then acceptable to dismiss SAB billboards placed within a stonesthrow away of public schools in not so metropolitan areas and move on to blame that environment's dire situation on 'ugly graffiti'? I don't think I need to point out the fact that problems on the ground are far bigger and complex than wack tags with simply having to mention “municipalities and enterprises or even private wealthy individuals”.

More specifically on 'ugly graffiti', sometimes nothing reigns more true than how 'good taste is bad art'. It's all opinion really.