Gareth Cliff's Letter

[RearrangedReality]

make yourself some chamomile tea and chill buddy. Gareth loves you too.

[Waylander]

I respect your hustle Waylander.
You seem to have a focus, what's your ultimate goal? What drives you when you wake up in the morning?

As for me, money doesn't drive me, even though my job practically safe-guards capitalism.
But, I mean, we all like to have nice things so I can meet you halfway.

I'm surprised you think the site is 'teeming with pseudo-intellectuals'. I always find the views vary to an interesting degree. Quite a few devil's advocates, afrocentrics and apologists. And a few posts to remind everyone not to take everything so seriously.

As for Gareth Cliff's letter, I did nod here and there, but nothing was new really, that's why I didn't comment before. Very few people would disagree that the government is corrupt. I was more interested in what motivated him to write it and whether it was really in the spirit of building the country. Also, I'm still sensitive to wording, perspective and tone used by white people in their criticism of black people, call it a nervous tick *shrug*

coolness.

My beef is that some people are dismissing the letter simply because it was written by a white person..
not because it doesnt make sense, or is a lie etc, but simply because it was written by a white guy..

As for it not saying nothing new, i agree, but that on its own does not make it irrelevant.. Gareth cliff is a radio personality, and has a wider and bigger reach than the average guy, and he has more clout(as far as listenability is concerned)than some politicians even..
Generally, when a politician speaks, you wouldnt think twice about flippin channels, but you wouldnt reali flip a channel because gareth cliff is being interviewed..
The stir this letter has caused is a perfect example of the clout and reach dude has...

As for his motivation, only he would know.. im not sure about this, but if he is speaking the truth, do his reason matter? i mean, when Helen Zille or Mbazima Shilowa speak truth, do you stop to think whether they are saying what they saying kauz its true, or kauz they tryin to get votes?
when a ref gives chiefs a penalty, do you focus on whether a foul actually ocurred and whether its deserving of a penalty or on whether they guy hates the team chiefs is playing against?

And i respect how sensitive you still are towards what white people say and how they say it, but my point is, when they do talk, what they say shouldnt be just dismissed because of their skin colour.. Keep in mind, that behaviour makes us just like them during the arpatheid era, it means we are employing reverse racism, which basically makes everything they did to us acceptable because we are now just as guilty...

As for this AG being full of pseudo-intellectuals, i think thats a fact.. Some big-worded views expressed on some threads are utterly stupid once you strip away all the beautiful colors they are covered with.
and i understand that this site is full of jokers, apologists and such, as you stated, but some things just get me going.. but ke, i do apologise for getting all emo on ya'll!!!

As what drives me and my ultimate goals, simple: MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!!

Thats the reason i went to school, got a job, started my businesses.. 95% of the decisions i make are motivated by gwop..
Money is 95% hapiness.. simple... everything thing that makes you happy except love(in some cases) requires money.. so its a simple equation NEEDS/WANTS + MONEY = HAPINESSES!!
and the more you have, the happier you are.. the only people who are happy without money are people who've never had it, so its value means nothing to them...

[The Angry Hand of God]

Shit, the only reason I want money is so I can get some a**.

All that other shit is irrelevant to me.

[the panic!]

I respect your hustle Waylander.
You seem to have a focus, what's your ultimate goal? What drives you when you wake up in the morning?

As for me, money doesn't drive me, even though my job practically safe-guards capitalism.
But, I mean, we all like to have nice things so I can meet you halfway.

I'm surprised you think the site is 'teeming with pseudo-intellectuals'. I always find the views vary to an interesting degree. Quite a few devil's advocates, afrocentrics and apologists. And a few posts to remind everyone not to take everything so seriously.

As for Gareth Cliff's letter, I did nod here and there, but nothing was new really, that's why I didn't comment before. Very few people would disagree that the government is corrupt. I was more interested in what motivated him to write it and whether it was really in the spirit of building the country. Also, I'm still sensitive to wording, perspective and tone used by white people in their criticism of black people, call it a nervous tick *shrug*

coolness.

My beef is that some people are dismissing the letter simply because it was written by a white person..
not because it doesnt make sense, or is a lie etc, but simply because it was written by a white guy..

As for it not saying nothing new, i agree, but that on its own does not make it irrelevant.. Gareth cliff is a radio personality, and has a wider and bigger reach than the average guy, and he has more clout(as far as listenability is concerned)than some politicians even..
Generally, when a politician speaks, you wouldnt think twice about flippin channels, but you wouldnt reali flip a channel because gareth cliff is being interviewed..
The stir this letter has caused is a perfect example of the clout and reach dude has...

As for his motivation, only he would know.. im not sure about this, but if he is speaking the truth, do his reason matter? i mean, when Helen Zille or Mbazima Shilowa speak truth, do you stop to think whether they are saying what they saying kauz its true, or kauz they tryin to get votes?
when a ref gives chiefs a penalty, do you focus on whether a foul actually ocurred and whether its deserving of a penalty or on whether they guy hates the team chiefs is playing against?

And i respect how sensitive you still are towards what white people say and how they say it, but my point is, when they do talk, what they say shouldnt be just dismissed because of their skin colour.. Keep in mind, that behaviour makes us just like them during the arpatheid era, it means we are employing reverse racism, which basically makes everything they did to us acceptable because we are now just as guilty...

As for this AG being full of pseudo-intellectuals, i think thats a fact.. Some big-worded views expressed on some threads are utterly stupid once you strip away all the beautiful colors they are covered with.
and i understand that this site is full of jokers, apologists and such, as you stated, but some things just get me going.. but ke, i do apologise for getting all emo on ya'll!!!

As what drives me and my ultimate goals, simple: MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!!

Thats the reason i went to school, got a job, started my businesses.. 95% of the decisions i make are motivated by gwop..
Money is 95% hapiness.. simple... everything thing that makes you happy except love(in some cases) requires money.. so its a simple equation NEEDS/WANTS + MONEY = HAPINESSES!!
and the more you have, the happier you are.. the only people who are happy without money are people who've never had it, so its value means nothing to them...

i actually feel dumber after reading this.

no offense.

as you were.

[Boss]

cliff is just being an attention whore. hes just taking an uecessary advantage of his fanbase with this. somethings just arent meant to change, so they better off left to demise on their own.

these constant arguements and debates about apartheid are only bringing back a dead fire to life.

people should stop this nonsense of using apartheid as a way of gaining public ttention!

[Bridge]

Black people do not need a white jesus.

[Thornz]

3. Education is a disaster. We're the least literate and numerate country in Africa. Zimbabwe produces better school results and turns out smarter kids than we do...

Well, Zim does have the 'highest literacy rate in Africa', so what's he getting at here?

[The Angry Hand of God]

3. Education is a disaster. We're the least literate and numerate country in Africa. Zimbabwe produces better school results and turns out smarter kids than we do...

Well, Zim does have the 'highest literacy rate in Africa', so what's he getting at here?

I think he is trying to say that a failed state can do better than our supposedly first world government.

[K'niep Tang]

Gareth Cliff is the poster boy of post-1994 racism and the ANC is happy to burnish his image.

Responses to Cliff's "Letter to the government" on his website have exposed that most South Africans cannot decode white supremacists' texts and actions.

Cliff, the Radio 5 DJ, has written an anti-black manifesto which ironically is celebrated as a statement for clean government.

He has achieved what the Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging and other right-wing racists groups have failed achieve -- normalising white supremacy.

He dresses it up as humanist concerns for good governance and service delivery. Cliff is the new paternalistic white liberal Biko so despised.

Taken from a column on the M&G website. To read the rest of the article follow the link: www.mg.co.za/article/2010-11-08-the-face-of-white-supremacy

Thoughts?

[The Angry Hand of God]

SO, we're back to the whole rubbishing of all his points only because he is white thing?

Seriously.

Read the damn letter and if there is nothing you agree with, then you are probably an Mp or an idiot.

If you can find some common ground, go with it.

As for dragging race or anything else into it, you're an idiot if you do that.

[K'niep Tang]

^^^

True. Dude does the same thing that he accuses Gareth of doind - generalising and a**uming that he speaks for all of us. Point is Gareth raises good points and he got a chance to get through to the government. His claim that black journalists have been chastised for racist is evidence of the government's wrongdoing, not Gareth's. Nigga needs to fall back with the white/black bullshit. Yeah we migth have different problems as whites/blacks and everyone else, but service delivery, corruption and education affect us all! This generalisation bullshit is not a good look.

[sero147]

my only problem with this is that gareth cliff writes a letter to the president and he gets a lunch with the communications department of the president, ordinary south africans who recieve no service delivery and call in to the presidential hotline are not given a reply or have to wait months for a reply. i am pretty sure that the suburb that gareth stays in has no problems with basic service delivery. the problem is that a white person makes a noise about service delivery he gets a lunch in sandton, and the people the ANC says they serve have to wait months for a reply. That is what is wrong with this whole letter thing.

[RearrangedReality]

my only problem with this is that gareth cliff writes a letter to the president and he gets a lunch with the communications department of the president, ordinary south africans who recieve no service delivery and call in to the presidential hotline are not given a reply or have to wait months for a reply. i am pretty sure that the suburb that gareth stays in has no problems with basic service delivery. the problem is that a white person makes a noise about service delivery he gets a lunch in sandton, and the people the ANC says they serve have to wait months for a reply. That is what is wrong with this whole letter thing.

you have a point.

[The Angry Hand of God]

Do you think there would have been a difference response if it was Fresh who wrote the letter? Or any other black celebrity with the reach and youth support of Cliff?

We have to ask ourselves if it is because he is white, or because he is famous.

Then again, why should it make a difference if someone is famous? Why treat a spoilt overhyped talking head better than you treat your voting, tax-paying public?

There is a lot wrong with this whole situation and us adding unnecessary and divisive aspects like race into it, only harms our own cause. Instead all South africans should be doing the same as Cliff and threatening to let hell break loose if we don't get the same special treatment and our concerns aren't adressed.

[RearrangedReality]

Do you think there would have been a difference response if it was Fresh who wrote the letter? Or any other black celebrity with the reach and youth support of Cliff?

We have to ask ourselves if it is because he is white, or because he is famous.

Then again, why should it make a difference if someone is famous? Why treat a spoilt overhyped talking head better than you treat your voting, tax-paying public?

There is a lot wrong with this whole situation and us adding unnecessary and divisive aspects like race into it, only harms our own cause. Instead all South africans should be doing the same as Cliff and threatening to let hell break loose if we don't get the same special treatment and our concerns aren't adressed.

i know a black person in the entertainment business with a far more reach to the affected people than Gareth who has been dealt with in some way by the current and previous president for the views they have and in one case support she was not willing to sellout for to the current president. the artist told me personally, i will not mention the name nor the details.