Destructive lifestyles by the youth

[General Ratzinger van Stilzkin]

^^^if u don't mind me asking, why don't you want to do the circumcision?

the question should be why do they want me to do circumcision? everybody who trying to explain why i need to do hasn't given me a good enough reason for me to do it.

Judging by your previous post you seem like a pretty traditional man, one that value your tradition more than religion or ‘Western world’ influences. You make reference to the fact that they covered your African attire with their jacket, which wasn’t altogether African and how there was so much reference to the Christian God which you feel is not appropriate for a traditional ceremony. So here’s a reason I think you should get circumcised, because it’s part of your Xhosa tradition. I mean if you’re such a firm believer in tradition then surely this being part of your tradition is something you should be more than happy to embark on. Or are you doing the same thing that you stand so highly in judgment of, which is isolating parts of your tradition, remixing them and making them suit you and your lifestyle? You seem to have a problem with the western world having so much influence yet you yourself aren’t following your tradition. Please do correct me if I’m wrong.

wow, dare i say it,  but this on some serious truth shit

[The Angry Hand of God]

Maybe he has also accepted that certain parts of tradition have become dated and no longer have the same value in modern society as they had back in the old days.

This is how I feel about a lot of traditional practices.

Then again, what do I know, I have no culture or tradition, except drunkenness and hip hop.

[RearrangedReality]

^^^if u don't mind me asking, why don't you want to do the circumcision?

the question should be why do they want me to do circumcision? everybody who trying to explain why i need to do hasn't given me a good enough reason for me to do it.

Judging by your previous post you seem like a pretty traditional man, one that value your tradition more than religion or ‘Western world’ influences. You make reference to the fact that they covered your African attire with their jacket, which wasn’t altogether African and how there was so much reference to the Christian God which you feel is not appropriate for a traditional ceremony. So here’s a reason I think you should get circumcised, because it’s part of your Xhosa tradition. I mean if you’re such a firm believer in tradition then surely this being part of your tradition is something you should be more than happy to embark on. Or are you doing the same thing that you stand so highly in judgment of, which is isolating parts of your tradition, remixing them and making them suit you and your lifestyle? You seem to have a problem with the western world having so much influence yet you yourself aren’t following your tradition. Please do correct me if I’m wrong.

Nicely put but I disagree with you here.

Tradition/customs as they are, what you seem like you dont know, had in the pa**ed been "discussed and changed" accordingly where there was a need. One of the reasons being some unavoidable social changes or lack of access sometimes to certain things. i.e animal skins replaced by the current materials as you have seen the material Xhosa people use now for their attire. Even umqombhothi was never part of these ceremonies. Amasi was what was used in the pa**ed. You didn't know this either. Ukwaluka was started by a certain somebody too, not too sure if im at liberty to get into this though and also keep in mind that i have limited information in this subject.

At some point people totally neglected that just as society changes some things do require change too in order to have these custom maintain relevance to the people on that particular time that requires that change. This is not about being selective and wanting to be white. Total misconception from your part.

One old man who happens to be a Sangoma and share the same views on the change im talking about put summarized it like this "Lento kuthwa lisiko yintetho", if I understood him correctly he was stressing it that it comes from a persons mouth before it is what it is. He was stressing the point of how some customs had to be changed (through discussion) and why that change sometimes is necessary.

To a**ume that I'm picking and choosing because i think it suits me in the way that you have put it then you are totally wrong. Im sure there are some c***oms if you were born into you would find the need to question them when you feel their relavence and role in society and your life has no role or rather inconveniences the idea to building a position people with pride and a strong sense of what makes them who they are.

[RearrangedReality]

Maybe he has also accepted that certain parts of tradition have become dated and no longer have the same value in modern society as they had back in the old days.

This is how I feel about a lot of traditional practices.

exactly. but when you start saying this people think you mean african customs whould be done away with which is not what I'm saying. A whole lot of it needs to be brought back and parts of those that are kept need to be changed. There is a whole lot that is just symbolism but people out of ignorance take them as they are. on some no, you can not do it any other way that how are forefathers did it too which is BULLSHIT. no thats not how they always did it, they had to change it too at some point.

[A pimp named Sarkozy]

Like hell The Youth can drink whatever they want ! I just got beef with random dudes who park their cars in a random streeet open their car boots,hold their drink n tap their feet like they doing the coolest ish on earth. Shoprite liquor store prices are quite reasonable They are 15%  to 20% lesser than the regular liquor store prices. R3500 worth of liquor can accommodate up To 30 peeps in a house. I drink once a month.

[General Ratzinger van Stilzkin]

@RR   

everything is relative innit, with that in mind who decides what should be changed and what shouldnt be? i may feel circumcision is outdated, but joe soap may not feel that way.

not sure what point im getting at, still

[The Angry Hand of God]

some motherf***er came and parked on my spot in front of my house during Macufe weekend and started blasting loud music and drinking. Then he refused to move when I wanted to park on my spot.

Motherf***er.

[RearrangedReality]

@RR   

everything is relative innit, with that in mind who decides what should be changed and what shouldnt be? i may feel circumcision is outdated, but joe soap may not feel that way.

not sure what point im getting at, still

There are customs done or were done as means to have a good social system and there are customs that are done because they are necessary or you are just drawn into them if had neglected them(the so called supernatural). one thing both these types of customs have in common are material things used just for symbolism, symbolism with a point depending on what it is used for. The symbolism changes. back then these things were discussed just as we have parlianment to discuss and change things if you get what i'm saying. The mentality to do or lack of ignorance to have this change is not there so it have to depend from family to family now until such time that iiNkosi are recognised and have a relevant part in out society, a role that is close to what they had before they started receiving allowances and being appointed and removed from their seats by Sir Something as instructed by the Queen in England.

[Anna Sasin]

Perhaps the best thing is to ask, to any one who has already undergone the process, what would you say you took away from the experience?

What profound benefit did you get besides following your culture?

[A pimp named Sarkozy]

RR has his own reasons for not doing bt to the xhosa culture extremist he wouldnt exist or recognise him as whole or a man! But then again if we all inside ebuhlanti slaughtering a cow who cares if hes a "man" or not who will  come to him and ask abt the secret language of the bushes?  But ke being in the mountains was a nice experience! But will that make you a real man in the real world? No!

[RearrangedReality]

hope you all are used to my grammatical errors. I think im getting worst by the day.  I should stop reading anything written by briCK

[The Angry Hand of God]

I had a little altercation with a Xhosa dude a while back.

Kid was about 19 or something.

It started with him being obnoxious around a couple of lesbian chicks who were drinking with me and my friends and talking about how they will never be acceptable to him as a man. He had apparently been to the mountain a while before that.

The chicks also happened to be Xhosa and the one started getting into a debate with him. I obviously couldn't understand it, but it ended with him threatening to beat her a** and her telling him he knows nothing about what it is to be a man.

All I was thinking was that if this is what it is to be a Xhosa man, I am glad I'm not one.

He asked me if I am snipped and I said no. He just said nothing and smirked.

Later he approaches the chick I'm with and starts getting all touchy feely. She tells him to f*** off and he starts swearing at her. I say nothing, cos she has quite a mouth on her too. I just sip my beer and remove my gla**es.

He tries to grab her breasts and she shoves him away.

This time I ask him to f*** off, very politely. He starts telling me how I am a boy and shouldn't talk to men and if he wants to take my woman he can.

So, this is where I hand the chick my gla**es to hold onto and make it very clear that I am about to stomp the shit out of him.

Unfortunately just as I am about to put my foot in his moouth his boy jumps in between and breaks up the fight and starts apologising, saying that dude is drunk and he leads him away.

Later they come around and he apologises, saying he is sorry, but I must learn to respect people's cultures.

So, is this Xhosa culture? I know a lot of mad cool Xhosa cats, but I have noticed that many of them tend to be very misogynistic and very judgemental of people who don't follow their way of doing things.

Its also not the first time I have been called a boy by someone who has been to the mountain, despite them being much younger than me. I have actually been forced to put my size tens into people's faces for just being plain disrespectful.

What is this?

[The Mighty Loks]

^^^if u don't mind me asking, why don't you want to do the circumcision?

the question should be why do they want me to do circumcision? everybody who trying to explain why i need to do hasn't given me a good enough reason for me to do it.

Judging by your previous post you seem like a pretty traditional man, one that value your tradition more than religion or ‘Western world’ influences. You make reference to the fact that they covered your African attire with their jacket, which wasn’t altogether African and how there was so much reference to the Christian God which you feel is not appropriate for a traditional ceremony. So here’s a reason I think you should get circumcised, because it’s part of your Xhosa tradition. I mean if you’re such a firm believer in tradition then surely this being part of your tradition is something you should be more than happy to embark on. Or are you doing the same thing that you stand so highly in judgment of, which is isolating parts of your tradition, remixing them and making them suit you and your lifestyle? You seem to have a problem with the western world having so much influence yet you yourself aren’t following your tradition. Please do correct me if I’m wrong.

Nicely put but I disagree with you here.

Tradition/customs as they are, what you seem like you dont know, had in the pa**ed been "discussed and changed" accordingly where there was a need. One of the reasons being some unavoidable social changes or lack of access sometimes to certain things. i.e animal skins replaced by the current materials as you have seen the material Xhosa people use now for their attire. Even umqombhothi was never part of these ceremonies. Amasi was what was used in the pa**ed. You didn't know this either. Ukwaluka was started by a certain somebody too, not too sure if im at liberty to get into this though and also keep in mind that i have limited information in this subject.

At some point people totally neglected that just as society changes some things do require change too in order to have these custom maintain relevance to the people on that particular time that requires that change. This is not about being selective and wanting to be white. Total misconception from your part.

One old man who happens to be a Sangoma and share the same views on the change im talking about put summarized it like this "Lento kuthwa lisiko yintetho", if I understood him correctly he was stressing it that it comes from a persons mouth before it is what it is. He was stressing the point of how some customs had to be changed (through discussion) and why that change sometimes is necessary.

To a**ume that I'm picking and choosing because i think it suits me in the way that you have put it then you are totally wrong. Im sure there are some c***oms if you were born into you would find the need to question them when you feel their relavence and role in society and your life has no role or rather inconveniences the idea to building a position people with pride and a strong sense of what makes them who they are.

But then is this not the same type of logic that leads to the very same thing you complain of, where people pray to a Christian God at a traditional ceremony because that’s what society believes to be relevant? And who determines what stay and what goes because in my understating of the word tradition is something done by our father and forefathers and so on.
So which part of our society has made circumcision irrelevant for you? The part where 1 in 4 people are HIV positive and it’s proven that circumcision decreases the chances of contracting and spreading the disease. If anything I believe the current society we live in promotes circumcision.  So there you are, your tradition and your society both argue for circumcision, two reasons why you should be circumcised.

[The Angry Hand of God]

Don't do it. It's all about an old guy who just wants to touch your wee wee.

[the panic!]

So, is this Xhosa culture? I know a lot of mad cool Xhosa cats, but I have noticed that many of them tend to be very misogynistic and very judgemental of people who don't follow their way of doing things.

Its also not the first time I have been called a boy by someone who has been to the mountain, despite them being much younger than me. I have actually been forced to put my size tens into people's faces for just being plain disrespectful.

What is this?

no, that's just a 19 year old being a 19 year old.

i'm Xhosa and i went in, despite most people thinking i wouldn't since I AM WHITE BOY. I LIKE WHITE GIRLS AND WHITE DRUGS.

lol. joking.

anyway, i grew up in different parts of the country so i never really felt 'rooted' in any community, but when i went in, it quickly became the most profound experience i'd ever had.  it still is. just the amount of shit i discovered i was a part of; the explanations behind how certain things were; and the understanding of the men and women in Xhosa culture. how things have come along. and also being part of something that my grandfather and his father probably did; my grandmother and her mother probably knew. i received something i'll never part with there. and of course the love--this kind of debilitating and intense sense of love you feel projected towards you by your community. i've never felt anything, anything, like that. ever.