Africasgateway.com
Other => Politics => Topic started by: Killa Merc on March 31, 2008, 11:10:13 AM
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http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=335847&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__africa/
Mugabe clings on despite election defeat
Chris McGreal | Harare, Zimbabwe
31 March 2008 07:16
Robert Mugabe was desperately trying to cling to power on Sunday night, despite his clear defeat in Zimbabwe's presidential election, by blocking the electoral commission from releasing official results and threatening to treat an opposition claim of victory as a coup.
The opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) said that what it regarded as the overwhelming win by its candidate, Morgan Tsvangirai, was "under threat" despite growing support from foreign monitors for its claim of victory. The party also said it had "security concerns" after a police raid on its election offices on Sunday.
Tsvangirai made no public appearances, apparently out of concern for his safety.
Mugabe's spokesperson, George Charamba, warned Tsvangirai not to declare himself president because that "is called a coup d'état and we all know how coups are handled".
Sources close to the MDC said the party leadership had put out feelers to the military and elements of the ruling Zanu-PF to try to arrange a peaceful transfer of power.
Independent monitoring groups said returns posted at about two-thirds of polling stations gave Tsvangirai 55% of the vote to Mugabe's 36%. The monitors said there was no way for the president to win the election legitimately. He had even lost in his home territory of Mashonaland as well as other former strongholds.
A third presidential candidate, Simba Makoni, a former Zanu-PF finance minister who broke with Mugabe, took about 9%.
Zanu-PF also appears to have suffered losses in the parliamentary election with at least nine members of its politburo losing their seats, including the Vice-President, Joice Mujuru, and the defence, information and education ministers.
The MDC's secretary general, Tendai Biti, said the party was increasingly alarmed at the refusal of the state-run Zimbabwe Electoral Commission (ZEC) to issue any results. "It appears the regime is at a loss how to respond ... We are really concerned by this a**ault on democracy. The primary point of an election is a result. We think there is a constitutional threat to those results," he said.
The commission had in the past begun issuing results as soon as they were posted at polling stations, and collated them by constituency for release within hours of the vote.
The ZEC's chairperson, George Chiweshe, declined to explain why he was still not issuing results more than 24 hours after the polls closed. "This is a complicated election and we will release the results when we have them," he said.
Opposition supporters in some towns, including Bulawayo, Mutare and Masvingo, publicly celebrated but generally Zimbabweans were cautious, not quite believing that Mugabe would leave office after 28 years in power.
With more than 50% of the vote, Tsvangirai would avoid a run-off election although his proportion might yet fall below the threshold as many of the remaining results are from rural areas where Mugabe traditionally has support.
Biti warned there was still scope for fraud. He said his party was encountering new irregularities, including the sudden appearance of additional ballot boxes at polling stations where the count had been completed.
He also said MDC election agents had been prevented from attending the count at several polling stations where the results then showed Zanu-PF doing significantly better than in surrounding areas.
South African monitors said they believed the opposition had won but would hold off on a public statement until the official results were announced. The Pan African Parliament observer mission warned against further delays in issuing the results.
A British Foreign Office minister, Mark Malloch-Brown, said it was "quite likely" that Mugabe had lost despite "ma**ive pre-election day cheating". -- guardian.co.uk © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2008
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HE LOST! He rigs the votes, threatens violence and tells police to ‘help’ voters in the polling booths…and the f***er STILL LOSES!!!
I don’t know if he will go, but this just brightened up my Monday morning. Cheers Merchant...
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If he does go you can be sure he'll leave witha bang... and possibly a couple of booms too. That man has no scruples..
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I think he will be killed or commit suicide within the year if he doesn't win this.
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Wish I could do the honours, he doesn't deserve to die by his own hand.
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Death? No. Too good. He must be made to live in the same conditions as the ones he has placed his countrymen in.
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I have read that only a portion of the results have been released..only about a 800,00 votes..... so there is still room for rigging unfortunately
www.zimelectionresults.com
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Death? No. Too good. He must be made to live in the same conditions as the ones he has placed his countrymen in.
Touché
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Wish I could do the honours, he doesn't deserve to die by his own hand.
Not wishing to hijack or stray from the thread. but thats BIG talk... Do u really think you could kill another human being? Especially, a non-self-defense situation?
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dat old bat does not wanna let go. in da news last week he said that he's confident that he'll win and if he doesnt, he wont accept defeat. get that? Wont Accept Defeat. he probaby rigin dem votes ryt now.... is it the love for power? money? havin ur people and every1 else hatin you? i mean he did wat he had to do back then but it is time to move on. I think he needs a physcologist. or a mental institution.
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i will wait for the "official results" before i run my mouth....as much as i disagree with ZANU PF's policies and dont like their leaders, the MDC should be careful because if you make people believe that they won and it turned out to be different.....there would be another senseless killing of each other by people( not the politicians BUT ORDINARY ZIMBABWEANS, just like what happened in Kenya a month ago.
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Eish and they started celebrating way too early.
@ Nyambz, no wouldn't actually. As much as I'd like to believe I could.
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Wish I could do the honours, he doesn't deserve to die by his own hand.
Not wishing to hijack or stray from the thread. but thats BIG talk... Do u really think you could kill another human being? Especially, a non-self-defense situation?
i once hit a guy with a car... HARD. he flew some distance and lay there in a b-boy freeze. i cant explain that feeling of thinking u killed someone, it's like nausea without the comforting flow of puke. dont care how gaNgsta u think u are, that's some indoobidable shit (as gangstalicious would say). then while i was freaking out (& sobering up) the f***er stands up & jets... I WANTED TO KILL HIM FOR THAT!
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http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=335847&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__africa/
Mugabe clings on despite election defeat
Beware sources like these that do not quote any specific reference.
Vague claims like "Independent monitoring groups" and "South African monitors said they believed the opposition had won but would hold off on a public statement until the official results were announced" undermine the credibility of this article.
Who are the Independant Monitoring groups making these statements?
I would hold off pa**ing sentiment until official word is out.
I will say it is wrong to be holding out on announcing results with no clear justification as to the cause.
We wait.
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[q]Zanu-PF also appears to have suffered losses in the parliamentary election with at least nine members of its politburo losing their seats, including the Vice-President, Joice Mujuru, and the defence, information and education ministers.[/q]
mujuru has apparently won with around 13000 votes, the next candidate has around 1000 votes.
[q]Beware sources like these that do not quote any specific reference.
Vague claims like "Independent monitoring groups" and "South African monitors said they believed the opposition had won but would hold off on a public statement until the official results were announced" undermine the credibility of this article.
Who are the Independant Monitoring groups making these statements?[/q]
news flash tate.the results in various constituencies were displayed at polling stations.so yes the whole country knows what's up.that was one of the conditions the opposition had proposed to mbeki.apparently they had tried to change this at the last minute so that the results would be counted at the presidential residence.the opposition leader then flew to south africa to notify mbeki of his quittin the race.mbeki had to intervene.it is most likely that the results are being manipulated.chiweshe of the zec was appointed by the president.secondly,people are now of the perception sadc don't give a damn about us.just like operation murambatsvina was never acted against by koffi annan cuz his son kojo had made billions by doing business with the ruling party (he and yamani got the contract to build the harare international airport).how can the sadc observer team declare elections 'free and fair' while noting some INCONSISTENCIES?isn't that oxymoronic and obvious that they are protecting the ruling regime?i don't expect tate to tell this side of the story (him being a direct beneficiary of the regime).there are people right now within the party who are making billions USD.a shift in the hands of power will mean a threat to their wealth.there is a higher possibilty of zimbabwe turning to a military state than power being handed over to the mdc (whom they accuse of trying to sell the country to the west).some argue that it is being sold to the east, whose china has an abase human rights record.in the event that president mugabe retains power,there is likely to be an unprecedented level of suffering and hardship.it is the ordinary man who suffers and when the world is told about lofty programs such land reform it is an exclusive branch of the elite that largely benefit.the poorest of the poor live on the crumbs.it is now vague who the opposition is.i wonder what would have happened if sadc had folded their hands and watched as de klerk upheld apartheid in south africa. i guess this is the thanks we get.at times like this you know who your friends are.everyone is benefiting from my country somehow, that's why little is being done.i blame sadc for our problems.if we deserve sanctions, so does sadc.not protesting against something means you agree with it.we have a sadc regime.my president's not the problem!mdc is not likely to take the issue to the courts given that they went into these elections with a case of vote riggin (2002) against the president pending.i just hope south africa is not going the same one party route.there are similarities between ANC and ZANU in its early stages.
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[q]Zanu-PF also appears to have suffered losses in the parliamentary election with at least nine members of its politburo losing their seats, including the Vice-President, Joice Mujuru, and the defence, information and education ministers.[/q]
mujuru has apparently won with around 13000 votes, the next candidate has around 1000 votes.
[q]Beware sources like these that do not quote any specific reference.
Vague claims like "Independent monitoring groups" and "South African monitors said they believed the opposition had won but would hold off on a public statement until the official results were announced" undermine the credibility of this article.
Who are the Independant Monitoring groups making these statements?[/q]
news flash tate.the results in various constituencies were displayed at polling stations.so yes the whole country knows what's up.that was one of the conditions the opposition had proposed to mbeki.apparently they had tried to change this at the last minute so that the results would be counted at the presidential residence.the opposition leader then flew to south africa to notify mbeki of his quittin the race.mbeki had to intervene.it is most likely that the results are being manipulated.chiweshe of the zec was appointed by the president.secondly,sadc people are now of the perception don't give a damn about us.just like operation murambatsvina was never acted against by koffi annan cuz his son kojo had made billions by doing business with the ruling party (he and yamani got the contract to build the harare international airport).how can the sadc observer team declare elections 'free and fair' while noting some INCONSISTENCIES?isn't that ironic and obvious that they are protecting the ruling regime?i don't expect tate to tell this side of the story (him being a direct beneficiary of the regime).there are people right now within the party who are making billions USD.a shift in the hands of power will mean a threat to their wealth.there is a higher possibilty of zimbabwe turning to a military state than power being handed over to the mdc (whom they accuse of trying to sell the country to the west).some argue that it is being sold to the east, whose china has an abase human rights record.in the event that president mugabe retains power,there is likely to be an unprecedented level of suffering and hardship.it is the ordinary man who suffers and when the world is told about lofty programs such land reform it is an exclusive branch of the elite that largely benefit.the poorest of the poor live on the crumbs.it is now vague who the opposition is.i wonder what would have happened if sadc had folded their hands and watched as de klerk upheld apartheid in south africa. i guess this is the thanks we get.at times like this you know who your friends are.everyone is benefiting from my country somehow, that's why little is being done.i blame sadc for our problems.if we deserve sanctions, so does sadc.not protesting against something means you agree with it.we have a sadc regime.my president's not the problem!
at last someone has saved this thread!!!!! most of the times cats talk a lot of crap in this politics section!! where can i get your music man? what you said there (bold part) is what i have been saying all along and i m glad someone else has said it!!
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Munetsi wataura hako murume, unfortunately panapa will yevanhu might not be done at all becuase there too many heavyweights benefitting from all the chaos and suffering
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news flash tate.the results in various constituencies were displayed at polling stations.so yes the whole country knows what's up.that was one of the conditions the opposition had proposed to mbeki.apparently they had tried to change this at the last minute so that the results would be counted at the presidential residence.the opposition leader then flew to south africa to notify mbeki of his quittin the race.mbeki had to intervene.it is most likely that the results are being manipulated.chiweshe of the zec was appointed by the president.secondly,people are now of the perception sadc don't give a damn about us.just like operation murambatsvina was never acted against by koffi annan cuz his son kojo had made billions by doing business with the ruling party (he and yamani got the contract to build the harare international airport).how can the sadc observer team declare elections 'free and fair' while noting some INCONSISTENCIES?isn't that oxymoronic and obvious that they are protecting the ruling regime?i don't expect tate to tell this side of the story (him being a direct beneficiary of the regime).
Apologies if I made it seem like I was defending the ruling regime. Niether I nor any of my immediate family are direct benefactors of the current ruling regime in Zimbabwe.
All I was highlighting is the vagueness of the orginating article posted. If we are going to make opinions based on articles in the media then we must always question the credibility of the source. This one failed my credibility test for reasons detailed ergo I cannot base any opinions on it.
mUnetsi appears to have a lot more information than I do being closer to the situation so I will not dismiss any of his insights. Please just share with us with your sources so we too can be enlightened.
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6 O'clock: BBC news.
They have just reported that Bob and MDC are in negotiations for Bob to step down. It is evident that Bob has been defeated and that he would like to negotiate an exit strategy. They report that its not guaranteed that he (Bob) will step down but the talks are happening..... ::)
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6 O'clock: BBC news.
They have just reported that Bob and MDC are in negotiations for Bob to step down. It is evident that Bob has been defeated and that he would like to negotiate an exit strategy. They report that its not guaranteed that he (Bob) will step down but the talks are happening..... ::)
Interesting development. Where did the BBC get their info from since they are not allowed in the country to report? Al Jahzerrah (sp) does not confirm the report.
Just trying to be sure it is not another vague media account with no real sources.
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[q]Zanu-PF also appears to have suffered losses in the parliamentary election with at least nine members of its politburo losing their seats, including the Vice-President, Joice Mujuru, and the defence, information and education ministers.[/q]
I wonder what would have happened if sadc had folded their hands and watched as de klerk upheld apartheid in south africa. i guess this is the thanks we get.at times like this you know who your friends are.everyone is benefiting from my country somehow, that's why little is being done.i blame sadc for our problems.if we deserve sanctions, so does sadc.not protesting against something means you agree with it.we have a sadc regime.my president's not the problem!mdc is not likely to take the issue to the courts given that they went into these elections with a case of vote riggin (2002) against the president pending.i just hope south africa is not going the same one party route.there are similarities between ANC and ZANU in its early stages.
I stand corrected
Zimbabweans they thought SA would be on fire by now, thats not going to happen, not in our lifetime, not with all the lessons we drew from around the continent and the world. Unlike you, we're not obssessed with 'colonial masters' and the symbols they left in our country, those sysmbols have signatures of South Africans who gave of their labour, their time and their lives, because of that and logical reason we won't destroy them. You're obssessed with destroying anything and everything that represent your colonial master but cross borders to sell your souls to them, you follow your colonial masters to England to serve them, isn't that a double standard?. I salute your peers who remained in Zimbabwe.
I DONT THINK ANC would ever be compared to Zanu pf you can at least compare it to the PAC. In the eighties it was the zimbabweans accusing south africans for sitting back, necklacing each other, singing a few freedoms songs, did some toyi-toying while waiting their turn in the back of a truck to be banished to the "bantustans"; and so it seemed.
Zimbabweans wondered loudly why south africans would not take arms and fight a "real" guerilla war agains minority rule as zimbabweans had done in the 70's.
To give you another historical percepective, it has been stated that the reason mugabe's party found the PAC as a natural ally was that organization's militancy and willingness to confront the apartheid regime at it's foundation- it's military.
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Zimbabweans they thought SA would be on fire by now, thats not going to happen, not in our lifetime, not with all the lessons we drew from around the continent and the world. Unlike you, we're not obssessed with 'colonial masters' and the symbols they left in our country, those sysmbols have signatures of South Africans who gave of their labour, their time and their lives, because of that and logical reason we won't destroy them. You're obssessed with destroying anything and everything that represent your colonial master but cross borders to sell your souls to them, you follow your colonial masters to England to serve them, isn't that a double standard?. I salute your peers who remained in Zimbabwe.
Which Zimbabweans are "obssessed with 'colonial masters' and the symbols they left in our country"?
The statues of Cecil Rhodes; David Livingstone & other agents of colonialism still stand at their original sites relatively well maintained. Save some changes to city names and infrastructure (similar to the ones made in SA) the remnants of colonialism are as present in Zimbabwe as they are anywhere else in Southern Africa.
Have you ever been to Zimbabwe?
Please do not judge the attitudes of all Zimbabweans on select few statements in the media.
Do not confuse proud Zimbabwean Nationalism with blind Patriotism.
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6 O'clock: BBC news.
They have just reported that Bob and MDC are in negotiations for Bob to step down. It is evident that Bob has been defeated and that he would like to negotiate an exit strategy. They report that its not guaranteed that he (Bob) will step down but the talks are happening..... ::)
Interesting development. Where did the BBC get their info from since they are not allowed in the country to report? Al Jahzerrah (sp) does not confirm the report.
Just trying to be sure it is not another vague media account with no real sources.
I know what you mean...but this was on bbc 6 oclock news and the reporter was claiming that he snuck into zim. Anyway, at 10 oclock they released this....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7325524.stm
You know what...f*** it, I'll just have to wait for them results to be released f*** this media shit >:(
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Zimbabweans they thought SA would be on fire by now, thats not going to happen, not in our lifetime, not with all the lessons we drew from around the continent and the world. Unlike you, we're not obssessed with 'colonial masters' and the symbols they left in our country, those sysmbols have signatures of South Africans who gave of their labour, their time and their lives, because of that and logical reason we won't destroy them. You're obssessed with destroying anything and everything that represent your colonial master but cross borders to sell your souls to them, you follow your colonial masters to England to serve them, isn't that a double standard?. I salute your peers who remained in Zimbabwe.
I DONT THINK ANC would ever be compared to Zanu pf you can at least compare it to the PAC. In the eighties it was the zimbabweans accusing south africans for sitting back, necklacing each other, singing a few freedoms songs, did some toyi-toying while waiting their turn in the back of a truck to be banished to the "bantustans"; and so it seemed.
Zimbabweans wondered loudly why south africans would not take arms and fight a "real" guerilla war agains minority rule as zimbabweans had done in the 70's.
To give you another historical percepective, it has been stated that the reason mugabe's party found the PAC as a natural ally was that organization's militancy and willingness to confront the apartheid regime at it's foundation- it's military.
dude, i might be wrong but you seem to be making the same mistake we did with zanu.we regarded it as a party that could do no wrong since it had brought about our liberation.when we spoke of political parties we often had zanu in mind.that was our national party.power was to descend to the next zanu member.i think there's a danger when any country tends to incline towards a one party state.it's wrong to have republicans and democrats as a majority as if there are absolutes in life and we cant be both at once,catch my drift.hey south africa has been independent for 14yrs only.we have been so for 28.our problems started at 20.it's just a matter of time.mugabe has created a spark about the land issue.that's an african issue and can never be localised because all our lands were raped and pillaged.
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I stand corrected
Zimbabweans they thought SA would be on fire by now, thats not going to happen, not in our lifetime, not with all the lessons we drew from around the continent and the world. Unlike you, we're not obssessed with 'colonial masters' and the symbols they left in our country, those sysmbols have signatures of South Africans who gave of their labour, their time and their lives, because of that and logical reason we won't destroy them. You're obssessed with destroying anything and everything that represent your colonial master but cross borders to sell your souls to them, you follow your colonial masters to England to serve them, isn't that a double standard?. I salute your peers who remained in Zimbabwe.
I DONT THINK ANC would ever be compared to Zanu pf you can at least compare it to the PAC. In the eighties it was the zimbabweans accusing south africans for sitting back, necklacing each other, singing a few freedoms songs, did some toyi-toying while waiting their turn in the back of a truck to be banished to the "bantustans"; and so it seemed.
Zimbabweans wondered loudly why south africans would not take arms and fight a "real" guerilla war agains minority rule as zimbabweans had done in the 70's.
To give you another historical percepective, it has been stated that the reason mugabe's party found the PAC as a natural ally was that organization's militancy and willingness to confront the apartheid regime at it's foundation- it's military.
yeah rip you just spoke out of your a** on this one. i agree with munetsi, it's early days in south africa to say that we've managed to learn from the continent. i also agree with munetsi on the sadc f***-ups. i've never seen a more useless regional organisation than sadc. the ruling party in south africa has not shown that it has learnt from the rest of the continent - or maybe it's because they've got a bunch of retards being the face of the organisation while the really decent individuals shake their heads in dismay. liberation movements are always going to expect more in repayment that what they deserve - there is always a price to freedom.
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It seems most peeps are concerned with Uncle Bob stepping down. Whoever his successor is got a lot of work in they hands, decreasing that inflation percentage in the thousands and basically restoring the economy to the bread basket it was to the region. I see Morgan selling the country to the west, what of the land issue, will he redistribute that to those who "deserve" it?.
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lil somethin i put together last weekend peace
FROM THE TOP DOWN
Today marks the dawn of Zimbabwe’s first democratic election. I say this because in the previous election there was talk of vote-rigging and fundamental indiscrepancies which led Bob Mugabe to once again take power. The outcome of that election was a dark day for our neighbour.
Whoever emerges the victor in today’s vote will have the weight of the world on his shoulders. Because, to say the least, Zimbabwe as a nation lacks a socio political economical infrastructure, and this has led to a ma**ive backlog in terms the basic needs of the nation as a whole. Necessities such as fuel and foodstuffs have become hard to come by. Even to the point where fuel stations have resorted to sourcing petrol from black market suppliers. And we are told that teachers are forced to travel to neighbouring towns and prostitute themselves in order to feed their families. Their meagre salaries are just not enough. To what end?
An important lesson that can be learned from this fiasco is perhaps that no one leader should ever hold office for such a long period of time. Throughout postmodern African history, the notion that one is ‘president for life’ has proved disasterous every time it has been suggested. A political a**asination of sorts. By this I mean tha the power hungry dictator-type leadership traits displayed by some if not most of our current leaders cause them to expire in the eyes of their people and also, on another level, from the viewpoint of the international community. This course of action has proved fatal for many a past african leader.
In the heydays of the old South Africa one such leader was Lennox Sebe of the Ciskei. This homeland leader was in my view our own Bob Mugabe. I say this because although the majority of the people were sufffering, Sebe was bulding airports and buying planes which were never to fly. This in turn relegated Ciskei to the status of banana republic. The same can be said of Zimbabwe. Having travelled to Harare both before and after the previous election I noticed that a huge new airport had been built on the outskirts of the city while the city itself had the appearance of a state of emergency. Basic foodstuffs were just too expensive and accommodation and transport was unaffordable. This led me to believe that things already at that point needed to change. Knowing that one’s pockets are full of millions that can not even buy a loaf of bread is a joke in itself. However it is part of the harsh reality of a sinking ship.
While I am not opposed to his policies of giving land back to its rightful owners, what I do find dubious in Mugabe`s approach is the method to his madness. Perhaps he lacks proper advisers and PR people in his entouraage, one can never be sure. But one can only feel that he has attemped to achieve too much too soon. This seems to be agimmick to merely attract voters in any case. Seeing the economy fail to the point where they had to issue emergency money and such should have proved to the country`s leadership that things were getting out of hand. And another desperate measure was the operation in which the poverty-stricken were forcibly removed from Harare’s streets in an effort to make it appear as if there was little or no poverty in the country, so that the U.N observers could note this. This lacklustre attempt to ‘cook the books’ blew up in the face of the Mugabe regime. And unfortunately it cost people their homes and, dare i say , their lives were negatively affected. The second disaster was the one in which foodstuffs in the supermarkets were given away at ridiculous prices leading to a ‘free for all’ which in turn led to a domino effet of there being no food available in the stores up to now. In addition to this, the silencing of critics through taking away the press freedom led me to believe that Mugabe clearly had something to hide.
So on the dawning of Zimbabwe’s liberation, one can ony hope that things will go smoothly. Already the ridiculous has happened in the form of long-deceased white people’s names appearing on the voter’s roll. It has also come to light that the government has printed far too many ballot papers, causing people to already pre-empt the possibility of vote rigging. My personal take is that the opposition should take power and lead the country into a new era of nation building. If they fail to take power through democratic means, then another route must be found to depose the ageing despot. Uhuru
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what I do find dubious in Mugabe`s approach is the method to his madness. Perhaps he lacks proper advisers and PR people in his [entourage], one can never be sure
he has been described as having a 'very short fuse', 'except for the grace of God there goes God' (whatever that means) among other interesting phrases. ;D ;D ;D ;D.word is he don't listen to advisors sometimes.as simba makoni described it on TV during the campaigns:
not everyone in zanu is bad.you have say,35 guys.out of that 35, there are 4 who consider themselves to be above the others, whose word is final and overrides the opinions of the others...it is not easy to get raise your objections in zanu...you'll be putting your life on the line
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As Tsvangirai declares victory with 50.3% of the vote...
ZANU still silent
ZEC ... silent
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I see Morgan selling the country to the west, what of the land issue, will he redistribute that to those who "deserve" it?.
This is the point where we must be most vigilant not only as Zimbabweans and SoutERN Africans but as a continent.
While the shortcomings of the current rulership is well debated they were brave enough to raise & begin to redress the land issue. There can be NO looking back.
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I see Morgan selling the country to the west, what of the land issue, will he redistribute that to those who "deserve" it?.
This is the point where we must be most vigilant not only as Zimbabweans and SoutERN Africans but as a continent.
Its little too late for that, Zim is owned by corporates. For example there are two South African banks that have a collateral with the Zim government. One of them has 105 million rand revolving loan to the Zim gov as loan as long as they pay back, they get the loan straight away. For the other bank the Zim gov offered two gold mines as a collateral, should they not be able to pay back the loan.
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a very insightful and lucid piece, king daniel. however, we must always remain cautious when we approach terms such as 'nation-building'. if not handled with gingerly, and with irony, they are likely to exact the same tyranny we now see gripping our neighbour. we are watching, Zimbabwe.
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an interesting point, Tornado. do you have any further information on these banks?
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There are families at the top, most notably the central banks.... Federal Reserve Bank, Bank for International Settlements etc etc, that control more than half of the worlds resources on their own.
THey are the real government behind all the politics. They are the people who fund your political campaigns. They OWN the media conglomerates, dictate to us how to think. They lend out money to BOTH sides in wars at interest and push the world depper into their web of debt and control/power. And they have been doing this for centuries starting with the practice of ursury (lending out money at compund interest like South African Banks lending money to Zimbabwe)
- These are people who have the power to print money..and promptly make money out of THIN air. Dont you ever wonder why we never see to the top of the pyramid....the hierarchy? Who is the real top dog?
As you climb higher in the chain of power shit gets less transparent and complicated covered in soulless economic lingo, on purpose, so that us, the serfs, dont ask questions.
Did you Know,in 1994 alone Before the Elections More than R200 Billion cash left our Shores.
We are taught to trust. Do we ever question the banking system...or the economy? No...no one understands it, but yet everyone trusts and just a**umes that it'll be okay.
The whole economic system is rigged. It comes down to a faulty equation that just does not add up, heres why:
For the sake of simplicity lets imagine taking all the banks in the world and squelching them together into the umbrellaterm 'UeberBank". This UeberBank creates all the money in the world, and then borrows it out to the people and charges 10% interest. But where is that 10% supposed to come from if they alone print all the money in the world?
It's not possible, the equation cannot be solved. There is not enough money in the world to cover the debt. And so we...are left to try to slave away to maintain out status quo as our governments pay towards their increasing debt. As economic growth slows down as we are approaching the limits of planet earths sustainability, we become poorer an poorer. Wake up...the system is rigged.
Families, like the Rothschilds, Rockerfellers etc....
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You're right about the real power brokers. No question it works like that - if you believe the President of a country has any real power you're stupid.
I'm not sure about your equation/example though. I don't enough about economic theory to say why, but it feels like there is a flaw there somewhere. I suspect it has something to do with money flow and the fact that not every person is borrowing all the time (in other words, the system is not 'symmetrical' in terms of cash flow) but I can't say for sure.
So how about it Rip? How do you escape the rigged system?
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For the sake of simplicity lets imagine taking all the banks in the world and squelching them together into the umbrellaterm 'UeberBank". This UeberBank creates all the money in the world, and then borrows it out to the people and charges 10% interest. But where is that 10% supposed to come from if they alone print all the money in the world?
It's not possible, the equation cannot be solved. There is not enough money in the world to cover the debt. And so we...are left to try to slave away to maintain out status quo as our governments pay towards their increasing debt. As economic growth slows down as we are approaching the limits of planet earths sustainability, we become poorer an poorer. Wake up...the system is rigged.
Families, like the Rothschilds, Rockerfellers etc....
It irks me eveytime a South African confuses the opposing terms "borrow" & "lend". Seriously, were they taught backwards?
Anyway in support of Rip's conspiracy theory I just got this book:
(http://www.jonsonchong.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/confessions-of-an-economic-hitman.jpg)
According to his book, Perkins' (An Economic Hitman) function was to convince the political and financial leadership of underdeveloped countries to accept enormous development loans from institutions like the World Bank and USAID. Saddled with huge debts they could not hope to pay, these countries were forced to acquiesce to political pressure from the United States on a variety of issues. Perkins argues in his book that developing nations were effectively neutralized politically, had their wealth gaps driven wider and economies crippled in the long run.
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You're right about the real power brokers. No question it works like that - if you believe the President of a country has any real power you're stupid.
I'm not sure about your equation/example though.
So how about it Rip? How do you escape the rigged system?
Ok! Tate Mr librarian.ill use the word "LEND" then
Back to Rob u cant escape the system its like The Outer limits and The X-files JUST RUN AND KEEP RUNNING.
If you go into a bank and ask for a loan, the bank does not print a single new note nor mint a single new coin. It merely types the amount of the loan into your account. From that moment you are paying interest to the bank on what is no more than figures typed on a screen. However, if you fail to pay back that non-existent loan, "they" using "they're" own made-up bullshit laws - which- will come along and take your wealth that does exist, your home, land, car, and possessions, to the estimated value of whatever figure was typed onto that screen.
More than that, because money is not brought into circulation by governments, but by private banks making loans to customers, the banks control how much money is in circulation. The more loans they choose to make, the more money is in circulation. What is the difference between an economic boom (prosperity) and an economic depression (poverty)? One thing only: the amount of money in circulation. That's all. And, through this system, the private banks, controlled by the same people, decide how much money will be in circulation. They can create booms and busts at will, u feel me Rob?
The same with the stock-markets(If you watching the news currently) where these guys are moving trillions of dollars a day around the financial and banking markets, so deciding if they go up or down, soar or crash. Stock-market crashes don't just happen, they are made to happen.
Most of the 'money' in circulation is not physical money, cash and coins. It is represented as figures pa**ing from one computer account to another electronically via money transfers, credit-cards and cheque books. The more money, electronic or otherwise, that is in circulation, the more economic activity can take place and therefore the more products are bought and sold, the more income people have, and the more jobs are available. But a constant theme of the Hidden Hands' financial coup has been to create a boom by making lots of loans and then pull the plug.
During a boom many people get themselves into even more debt. The vibrant economic activity means that businesses borrow more for new technology to increase production to meet demand. People borrow more to buy a bigger house and a new, more expensive car, because they are so confident about their economic future. Then, at the most opportune moment, the major bankers, coordinated by the secret society networks, raise interest rates to suppress the demand for loans and they begin to call in loans already outstanding. They ensure they make far fewer loans than before. This has the affect of taking units of exchange (money in its various forms) out of circulation. This suppresses demand for products and leads to fewer jobs because there is not enough money in circulation to generate the necessary economic activity. So people and businesses can no longer earn enough to repay their loans and they go bankrupt. The banks then take over their real wealth, their business, home, land, car and possessions in return for non-repayment of a loan that was never more than figures typed on a screen. This has been going on in cycles over thousands of years, especially the last few centuries, and the real wealth of the world has been sucked out of the population and into the hands of those who control the banking system
The same applies to countries. Instead of creating their own interest-free money, governments borrow it from the private banking cartel and pay back both the interest and the capital by taxation of the people.
Fantastic amounts of the money you pay in taxes go straight to the private banks to pay back loans which the governments could create themselves interest-free!!
Why don't they do it? Because the Brotherhood controls the governments as much as they control the banks.
What we call 'privatisation' is the selling-off of state a**ets to stave off bankruptcy caused by the bank-created debt. Third World countries are handing over control of their land and resources to the international bankers because they cannot pay back the vast loans made, on purpose, by the banks to ensnare them in this very situation. The world does not have to be in poverty and conflict, it is manipulated to be that way because it serves the Agenda.
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Agree with Rip_the_jacke.
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The economic fundamentals of this conspiracy theory appear to be correct except for this a**umption:
During a boom many people get themselves into even more debt. The vibrant economic activity means that businesses borrow more for new technology to increase production to meet demand. People borrow more to buy a bigger house and a new, more expensive car, because they are so confident about their economic future. Then, at the most opportune moment, the major bankers, coordinated by the secret society networks, raise interest rates to suppress the demand for loans and they begin to call in loans already outstanding. They ensure they make far fewer loans than before. This has the affect of taking units of exchange (money in its various forms) out of circulation. This suppresses demand for products and leads to fewer jobs because there is not enough money in circulation to generate the necessary economic activity. So people and businesses can no longer earn enough to repay their loans and they go bankrupt. The banks then take over their real wealth, their business, home, land, car and possessions in return for non-repayment of a loan that was never more than figures typed on a screen. This has been going on in cycles over thousands of years, especially the last few centuries, and the real wealth of the world has been sucked out of the population and into the hands of those who control the banking system
The same applies to countries. Instead of creating their own interest-free money, governments borrow it from the private banking cartel and pay back both the interest and the capital by taxation of the people.
Fantastic amounts of the money you pay in taxes go straight to the private banks to pay back loans which the governments could create themselves interest-free!!
Why don't they do it? Because the Brotherhood controls the governments as much as they control the banks.
What we call 'privatisation' is the selling-off of state a**ets to stave off bankruptcy caused by the bank-created debt. Third World countries are handing over control of their land and resources to the international bankers because they cannot pay back the vast loans made, on purpose, by the banks to ensnare them in this very situation. The world does not have to be in poverty and conflict, it is manipulated to be that way because it serves the Agenda.
There is no such thing as interest free money. All money suppy is linked to Inflation which is linked to Interest rates.
Lets use the Zimbabwean example. The Government prints supposedly interest rate free money to meet the inflationary pressures (at +100 000%). There is now more money in circulation. Zimbabweans can afford to pay MORE for basic goods. Producers now charge more for goods = Inflation spiralling out of control ie the icreased money suply has fuelled (no pun intended) the Inflation that necessitated it in the first place.
There is direct positive correlation between Inflation & Interest rates. Banks will not lend out money if when they get it back it does not have the same purchasing power so they charge higher interest rates to meet inflation.
One of the "items" being purchased are imports which need to be purchased with Forex. It now takes more Zim$ to buy Imports(devaluation). Banks need to lend out more Zim$ to buy the same amount of Forex for imports. They need to charge more interest for these loans to meet the high domestic inflation.
See? There is no such thing as interest free money supply.
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Mugabe, Mugabe, Mugabe.....
http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/Zimbabwe/0,,2-11-1662_2299749,00.html
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You're right about the real power brokers. No question it works like that - if you believe the President of a country has any real power you're stupid.
I'm not sure about your equation/example though.
So how about it Rip? How do you escape the rigged system?
Ok! Tate Mr librarian.ill use the word "LEND" then
Back to Rob u cant escape the system its like The Outer limits and The X-files JUST RUN AND KEEP RUNNING.
If you go into a bank and ask for a loan, the bank does not print a single new note nor mint a single new coin. It merely types the amount of the loan into your account. From that moment you are paying interest to the bank on what is no more than figures typed on a screen. However, if you fail to pay back that non-existent loan, "they" using "they're" own made-up bullshit laws - which- will come along and take your wealth that does exist, your home, land, car, and possessions, to the estimated value of whatever figure was typed onto that screen.
More than that, because money is not brought into circulation by governments, but by private banks making loans to customers, the banks control how much money is in circulation. The more loans they choose to make, the more money is in circulation. What is the difference between an economic boom (prosperity) and an economic depression (poverty)? One thing only: the amount of money in circulation. That's all. And, through this system, the private banks, controlled by the same people, decide how much money will be in circulation. They can create booms and busts at will, u feel me Rob?
The same with the stock-markets(If you watching the news currently) where these guys are moving trillions of dollars a day around the financial and banking markets, so deciding if they go up or down, soar or crash. Stock-market crashes don't just happen, they are made to happen.
Most of the 'money' in circulation is not physical money, cash and coins. It is represented as figures pa**ing from one computer account to another electronically via money transfers, credit-cards and cheque books. The more money, electronic or otherwise, that is in circulation, the more economic activity can take place and therefore the more products are bought and sold, the more income people have, and the more jobs are available. But a constant theme of the Hidden Hands' financial coup has been to create a boom by making lots of loans and then pull the plug.
During a boom many people get themselves into even more debt. The vibrant economic activity means that businesses borrow more for new technology to increase production to meet demand. People borrow more to buy a bigger house and a new, more expensive car, because they are so confident about their economic future. Then, at the most opportune moment, the major bankers, coordinated by the secret society networks, raise interest rates to suppress the demand for loans and they begin to call in loans already outstanding. They ensure they make far fewer loans than before. This has the affect of taking units of exchange (money in its various forms) out of circulation. This suppresses demand for products and leads to fewer jobs because there is not enough money in circulation to generate the necessary economic activity. So people and businesses can no longer earn enough to repay their loans and they go bankrupt. The banks then take over their real wealth, their business, home, land, car and possessions in return for non-repayment of a loan that was never more than figures typed on a screen. This has been going on in cycles over thousands of years, especially the last few centuries, and the real wealth of the world has been sucked out of the population and into the hands of those who control the banking system
The same applies to countries. Instead of creating their own interest-free money, governments borrow it from the private banking cartel and pay back both the interest and the capital by taxation of the people.
Fantastic amounts of the money you pay in taxes go straight to the private banks to pay back loans which the governments could create themselves interest-free!!
Why don't they do it? Because the Brotherhood controls the governments as much as they control the banks.
What we call 'privatisation' is the selling-off of state a**ets to stave off bankruptcy caused by the bank-created debt. Third World countries are handing over control of their land and resources to the international bankers because they cannot pay back the vast loans made, on purpose, by the banks to ensnare them in this very situation. The world does not have to be in poverty and conflict, it is manipulated to be that way because it serves the Agenda.
@ RIP- good points maaan, lol.... its about those sitting at the top of the social pyramid and our goverments are just puppets. The problem with the system is and also what it will bring about its downfall is that, its about making profits and sometimes to make more profits you have to cut down on human resources (people like you and me, the workers). The system ignores the fact that for it to thrive you need workers who also consumers. ...... so in that way the system is its own worst enemy.
Another great book to check out is THE BIG RIPOFF: HOW BIG BUSINESS AND BIG GOVERNMENT STEAL YOUR MONEY by Timothy P. Carney
@Rob- an individual can escape the system by himself by joining the people at the top but that would be just escaping the system and not fighting it, those at the bottom of the pyramid have numbers as their only weapon and a powerful one to fight the system
call me crazy but i m dreamer
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@Rob- an individual can escape the system by himself by joining the people at the top but that would be just escaping the system and not fighting it, those at the bottom of the pyramid have numbers as their only weapon and a powerful one to fight the system
call me crazy but i m dreamer
Too vague for me. Can you elaborate?
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[Anyway in support of Rip's conspiracy theory I just got this book:
(http://www.jonsonchong.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/confessions-of-an-economic-hitman.jpg)
According to his book, Perkins' (An Economic Hitman) function was to convince the political and financial leadership of underdeveloped countries to accept enormous development loans from institutions like the World Bank and USAID. Saddled with huge debts they could not hope to pay, these countries were forced to acquiesce to political pressure from the United States on a variety of issues. Perkins argues in his book that developing nations were effectively neutralized politically, had their wealth gaps driven wider and economies crippled in the long run.
I read this about two years ago. I thought of it when I heard Immortal Tech spitting "that's why corporations like Hailburton are paid to rebuild nations" or something like that. Anyone who wants a copy I've got a MS Word version, I can email.
Also chec out www.zeitgeistmovie.com for more info on RIP's theory. Part 2 of the movie deals with Rockerfeller, JP Morgan , etc and how they run the world. interesting. The 1st part challenges conventional thinking about the origins of Christianity and the last tries to show that 911 was masterminded by the US 9nothing new in this claim) . thought provoking.
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[Anyway in support of Rip's conspiracy theory I just got this book:
(http://www.jonsonchong.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/confessions-of-an-economic-hitman.jpg)
According to his book, Perkins' (An Economic Hitman) function was to convince the political and financial leadership of underdeveloped countries to accept enormous development loans from institutions like the World Bank and USAID. Saddled with huge debts they could not hope to pay, these countries were forced to acquiesce to political pressure from the United States on a variety of issues. Perkins argues in his book that developing nations were effectively neutralized politically, had their wealth gaps driven wider and economies crippled in the long run.
send thru plz...gasexion@gmail.com
I read this about two years ago. I thought of it when I heard Immortal Tech spitting "that's why corporations like Hailburton are paid to rebuild nations" or something like that. Anyone who wants a copy I've got a MS Word version, I can email.
Also chec out www.zeitgeistmovie.com for more info on RIP's theory. Part 2 of the movie deals with Rockerfeller, JP Morgan , etc and how they run the world. interesting. The 1st part challenges conventional thinking about the origins of Christianity and the last tries to show that 911 was masterminded by the US 9nothing new in this claim) . thought provoking.
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@Rob- an individual can escape the system by himself by joining the people at the top but that would be just escaping the system and not fighting it, those at the bottom of the pyramid have numbers as their only weapon and a powerful one to fight the system
call me crazy but i m dreamer
Too vague for me. Can you elaborate?
okay what i mean is that the system that you are guys are talking about is capitalism (acquire more wealth than the next person) and it dictates that only you as an individual can escape the system and the only way to do it is to work excessively hard, make more moola and become part of the the rich and powerful. Banks are one of the institutions that are in place to make sure that the system works efficiently. refer to RIP.
and because the system promotes individualism we as the people at the bottom of the social pyramid/ food chain we have a very powerful weapon and that is numbers. there are more people at the bottom than at the top. So for us at the bottom we need to unite and fight the system...just like we fought apartheid, also a system that was benefiting a minority. you dig. in a nutshell all im saying is that the world is f***ed up because of cla** inequalities. you dig
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So for us at the bottom we need to unite and fight the system...just like we fought apartheid,
How Tornado? By Toyi-Toying??? who would take you seriously?
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So for us at the bottom we need to unite and fight the system...just like we fought apartheid,
How Tornado? By Toyi-Toying??? who would take you seriously?
toyi-toying is not the only way to get the message across!! there are so many strategies we could use and maybe the first step would be to educate our people about the system and how is f***ing them up, explain to the that its not becasue they are black, God is angry with them, they are just lazy, their ancestors are angry with them BUT because there is a system in place that is there to make sure that they remain poor for the rest of their lives. For me that would be a start. Anyway toyi-toying is one of the best way to get attention from the government/ big business....when you not at work toyi-toying the economy comes to a standstill, they loose out a lot!!!!! What do you think organisation like TAC get what they want from the government? today people have access to anti-retrovirals because of toyi-toying and using the constitution as a weapon- taking the gov to court for not fulfilling its promise. When TAC started they were campaigning for just one issue( access to anti-retrovirals but now its not just about that, its about access to health!!! so yeah dont sleep on toyi-toying.
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azanian souljahs,
yet again the west has been able to cook up a situation of divide, rule and conquer amongst africas children, some sick post colonial syndrome has hit agin.!!!! Black on Black!!!!
MDC leadership is talking giving back land to the colonial masters, after bob had already radically revolutionalised land redistribution in the SADC region!!!Tsvangarai is a capitilistic leader within the african governance, imperialistiically empowered and mandated to a**ist in the mordern enslavement of africans and a cultural rape and molestation of its natural resources for the global economy!!!!
Its funny how western herenfolk media(British and american to be precise) is busy reporting the world and Zimbabwe about the election polls and so forth, and they are not even formally invited media guests by the state, clearly spreading propaganda of the highest level imaginable,
Power to Mugabe!!!!!
Aluta Continua ??? >:( :-[ :P
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Its funny how western herenfolk media(British and american to be precise) is busy reporting the world and Zimbabwe about the election polls and so forth, and they are not even formally invited media guests by the state, clearly spreading propaganda of the highest level imaginable,
Power to Mugabe!!!!!
Because obviously western media would be able to report fairly and accurately as 'guests' of the state. Obviously by operating outside the confines of state-controlled media, they are just spreading propaganda. Obviously.
I'm not Zimbabwean. But I am African. And I think I'll put my trust in the BBC.
Power to the free press!!!
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azanian souljahs,
yet again the west has been able to cook up a situation of divide, rule and conquer amongst africas children, some sick post colonial syndrome has hit agin.!!!! Black on Black!!!!
MDC leadership is talking giving back land to the colonial masters, after bob had already radically revolutionalised land redistribution in the SADC region!!!Tsvangarai is a capitilistic leader within the african governance, imperialistiically empowered and mandated to a**ist in the mordern enslavement of africans and a cultural rape and molestation of its natural resources for the global economy!!!!
Its funny how western herenfolk media(British and american to be precise) is busy reporting the world and Zimbabwe about the election polls and so forth, and they are not even formally invited media guests by the state, clearly spreading propaganda of the highest level imaginable,
Aluta Continua ??? >:( :-[ :P
Wow, that's what I've been seeing for a while. However, Mugabe gotta give way to fresh blood. He's an old man with a sturbbon mind now. I believe like the lot of people that Simba may do the Job. Tsvangarai can not do it alone, cos if he does, whatever that Mugabe and the Zim army was fighting for would become fruitless. So maybe, the unified governance (that will exclude the current sturbbon mindset of Mugabe) may, and I repeat, may work.
And for BBC, the rest of Western Media and Propagandists (if there is such a word), must let Zim be. Free Press, yes, I also say AMANDLA to freedom of expression, but, let do away with propaganda as well, cos it's way a of steering the whole of Africa and the Diaspora back to the bush. Why favor a democracy that won't benefit us, but benefit the west. The rest of the black 3rd world contries is facing critical problems with regards to living costs. Bukina Faso went on toyi toyi. Haiti is till under that pressure too. Even S.A is in deep ish with living costs especially for the poor: high transportation costs, food prices, and etc. A strike took place in an area South of Dbn where people boycoted over High Taxi Fare costs. Now is this what we want for Africa. We have most production means for the things that are frustrating us. However, we don't over our currency, inflation, and etc.
So my question, are we a free democratic country. Or is Africa a free continent. If not, let carefully think about the Zim's Political status and avoid brainless comments, influenced by WESTERN MEDIA and WHAT THE WEST WANT AFRICA TO BE (cos all we've been doing is not what we want, but what the GLOBAL COMMUNITY WANT, and it's sad to ignore that the GLOBAL COMMUNITY is the WEST- Especially,AMERICA and BRItz)
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You know, you can bleat about Western Media and Let Zim Be Zim all day. Right now, inflation is sitting at around 100,000% and 80% of the population is unemployed.
I would say that's a pretty strong indicator that the country is in a bit of shithole, and things have to change. You can whinge until your face explodes, but it doesn't get away from the fact that Mugabe f***ed Zimbabwe and needs to go.
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Y'all can scream at the top of ya lungs, "free Africa from western domination" but the continent won't scream with u. They (The West) will isolate you, sanction ya a**es and shit, and u'll suffer alone.
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The truth is the truth, and it hurts. And wherever it is not accepted disfuctioning and tarmoil will take place.
People are poor, people are hungry, and we scared to speak out cos what we have may be taken from us. Wow, I wish our ancestors were here to see these African Chicken Governments. Samora, Chris Hani, damn, will "see you at the cross roads"
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Y'all can scream at the top of ya lungs, "free Africa from western domination" but the continent won't scream with u. They (The West) will isolate you, sanction ya a**es and shit, and u'll suffer alone.
Its funny how western herenfolk media(British and american to be precise) is busy reporting the world and Zimbabwe about the election polls and so forth, and they are not even formally invited media guests by the state, clearly spreading propaganda of the highest level imaginable,
Power to Mugabe!!!!!
Because obviously western media would be able to report fairly and accurately as 'guests' of the state. Obviously by operating outside the confines of state-controlled media, they are just spreading propaganda. Obviously.
I'm not Zimbabwean. But I am African. And I think I'll put my trust in the BBC.
Power to the free press!!!
Azanian souljahs
So what if the west sanctions us here in africa??? they get all their resources to fuel global economy here, thats the real war that mugabe is fighting, and the west is doing everything in their power to outs him, even get his own people thinking otherwise about a liberated africa, liberated from imperilist goverments such as the U.S comgress and British direct rule mechanisms that enforce mechantalistic legislations!!!!
There is no way that western colonials can articulate to the african ma**es through propagandist media, what path leads to social development, because the very same herenvolk system as pionted out before, is raping africa repeatedly without perserction. Mugabe is brave for standing up to this neo colonial hog wash, leaders such as him give reason to the 400 recorded years of resistance from white supremists!!!
Aluta Continua
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@ Solarman: rhetoric, my friend. Pure rhetoric. You still haven't provided an answer to the fact that under Mugabe 80% of Zim is unemployed. No jobs. And the fact that inflation is at 100,000%.
Stop bullshitting, grow up and grow a brain.
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@ Solarman: rhetoric, my friend. Pure rhetoric. You still haven't provided an answer to the fact that under Mugabe 80% of Zim is unemployed. No jobs. And the fact that inflation is at 100,000%.
Stop bullshitting, grow up and grow a brain.
Rob, you also have to ask your self the question: Why did Mugabe (just recently) fail to provide for his country? WHy now? Why not in the late 80s and the whole of the 90s. Why is the guy who liberated his people oppressing them? WHy now?
And my question: Do you know what Global Economy is and how it affects states economies? Do the math man.
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Recently? Have you gone utterly batshit crazy? Mugabe has been f***ing things up for nigh on ten years!
I understand he was a hero, and that he liberated Zimbabwe. That was in 1980. It is now almost 30 years on, and he has turned into one of the most lethal, belligerent evil dictators in Africa. He has destroyed in Zimbabwe utterly and totally.
I don't have an answer to any of those questions. But please, please, please admit that things ain't right. Shit needs to change, and he needs to go.
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Recently? Have you gone utterly batshit crazy? Mugabe has been f***ing things up for nigh on ten years!
I understand he was a hero, and that he liberated Zimbabwe. That was in 1980. It is now almost 30 years on, and he has turned into one of the most lethal, belligerent evil dictators in Africa. He has destroyed in Zimbabwe utterly and totally.
I don't have an answer to any of those questions. But please, please, please admit that things ain't right. Shit needs to change, and he needs to go.
@ Solarman: rhetoric, my friend. Pure rhetoric. You still haven't provided an answer to the fact that under Mugabe 80% of Zim is unemployed. No jobs. And the fact that inflation is at 100,000%.
Stop bullshitting, grow up and grow a brain.
Rob, you also have to ask your self the question: Why did Mugabe (just recently) fail to provide for his country? WHy now? Why not in the late 80s and the whole of the 90s. Why is the guy who liberated his people oppressing them? WHy now?
And my question: Do you know what Global Economy is and how it affects states economies? Do the math man.
Azanian Souljahs,
Beesting clearly comprehends the situation more than rob one does!!!
Zimbabwe enjoyed socio economic freedom well into the 90's with a national GDP that had agriculture as its main contributer. Mugabe's goverment was in the thick of things in all developments.Education(tertiary) was apriority that eventually produced scholorships that cater for 65% of the youth, in institutions in and outside of zimbabwe, getting expertise and skills to empower zimbabwes independant situation from the colonial masters. Obviously, unemployement was there but at a low scale, as with any third world country(another imperialist enforced sitaution anyway).Land is the main comodity in mantaing a independant state, that is where everything started collapsing, because the British still held on to the legacy that Cecil J Rhodes had imprinted in Zimbabwean nationalism, land re-distributiuon legislations that are going to take 200 years of paperwork and protocol.Farm invasions happened, meaning the agricultaral sector(which had exploitive white supremists in manageral positions), would be negetively influenced.Mugabe's goverment puposely sabotaged the economy because it did not belong to the nation, but to the british colonials. Uneployement is a direct result of thus, not the situation of a natural self governing zimbabwe. sanctions followed, the rest is as you all know!!!!!
aluta continua >:( ??? :-[
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Power to the free press!!!
wat r u talking about ma nig?
Get ur head out of the sand before you become a media ostrich.
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And also, bout the title of this thread, the election results are not out yet, wat r we politikin about here?
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yet again the west has been able to cook up a situation of divide, rule and conquer amongst africas children, some sick post colonial syndrome has hit agin.!!!! Black on Black!!!!
MDC leadership is talking giving back land to the colonial masters, after bob had already radically revolutionalised land redistribution in the SADC region!!!Tsvangarai is a capitilistic leader within the african governance, imperialistiically empowered and mandated to a**ist in the mordern enslavement of africans and a cultural rape and molestation of its natural resources for the global economy!!!!
Its funny how western herenfolk media(British and american to be precise) is busy reporting the world and Zimbabwe about the election polls and so forth, and they are not even formally invited media guests by the state, clearly spreading propaganda of the highest level imaginable,
Please.U and Beesting don't no squat!
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the sad part of african politics how the liberators become the dictators.are we next?