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Hip Hop Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: the panic! on October 14, 2008, 06:32:52 PM

Title: originality
Post by: the panic! on October 14, 2008, 06:32:52 PM
for me this is the litmus test that ultimately marks the difference between an artist and a dilettante. as with music, im more drawn to musicians who not only have a tight handle on their craft, but are also somewhat innovative, often charting new territory within whatever genre they choose to work in. redefining, if you will, the way that genre is seen. people who stretch the shit out of it through talent, technique, intelligence, insight, an unconventional approach to music, and just plain old brilliance.

which south african artists, across genres, do you think fit into this mould? people, according to you, who are doing something interesting, innovative and distinct with music. this is not a favourite emcee/group thread, but about those artists you actually think are making original shit: i.e artistic contributions to the global geography of music at large?

(note: you don't necessarily have to 'enjoy' their music)

off the top, here's my list.

Izithunywa Zohlanga
Max Normal.TV
Prisoners of Strange
Blk Jks
Sweat X
GroundWorx
P-Unit (Roster)

will think of more later. in the meantime, lace up your own list.


Title: Re: originality
Post by: Mad on October 14, 2008, 06:51:33 PM
izithunywa zohlanga would definatley be the one for me

those cats are sick in sick xhosa. hey did you know that those dudes are student of the university of fort hare? i meet them everyday and discuss some music with them, but we can never collaborate coz we too different, i know those dudes,il try to convince them to ljoin ag and increase the number of artists up in here. izithunywa are the bomb unlike them soulja boy wannabe a**holes, ya dig me?
Title: Re: originality
Post by: Myth on October 14, 2008, 07:02:52 PM
how i miss Leo's beats back in the Khantatha days...


Leo=Nyana Kantu


this grimey or dungeon or whateva sound just aint nice at all....but he's talented enaf to switch if he has to
Title: Re: originality
Post by: watziznehmegin on October 15, 2008, 03:06:04 AM
Audio Visual (snazz, krookd n' kaptin)
Blk Sonshine
340ml
sibot
Neo Muyanga
Tumi
steadyrock!

these the cats i think that are missing from the innitial list, that I can think of off hand, but yeah all the previous cats, I think, are on a level..!!
Title: Re: originality
Post by: motho on October 15, 2008, 09:12:46 AM
Prisoners of Strange

co-sign
Title: Re: originality
Post by: SolitaryNative on October 15, 2008, 10:35:16 AM
ETC and InvisibleMan. Mad original.
Title: Re: originality
Post by: cash on October 15, 2008, 11:06:53 AM
We all come from someones nutsack ;)
Title: Re: originality
Post by: Omero's Daddy on October 15, 2008, 12:50:59 PM
We all come from someones nutsack ;)
hahahah

Theres no such thing as originality. Just those who try hard to be different in the guise of originality.
Title: Re: originality
Post by: SolitaryNative on October 15, 2008, 01:34:34 PM
Nah. Guises are for failures. We see the world as we are. Some cats fit formulas others break boundaries. Sometimes the end product is original, when the idea wasn't and vice versa.

My dad calling me FishingTackle leaves me in a pretty "original" position, even if he was copying something that exists already.

I also heard that daddies and mummies have different body parts but I need to read further clearly.
Title: Re: originality
Post by: Waylander on October 15, 2008, 01:44:32 PM
The Jerusalem Man...
Title: Re: originality
Post by: Dpleezy on October 15, 2008, 03:02:41 PM
We all come from someones nutsack ;)
hahahah

Theres no such thing as originality. Just those who try hard to be different in the guise of originality.

I disagree.

It's the old 'influence' vs. clone debate.

There's a sliding scale - on one end you've got total and complete originality which is incredibly rare. On the other end of the scale you've got clones that are so similar to whatever came before them that's it's incredibly hard to tell them apart.
Title: Re: originality
Post by: ToXic Candy on October 15, 2008, 03:19:09 PM
Camangwini,
that's some original shit ryt ther.
Title: Re: originality
Post by: Mad on October 15, 2008, 03:32:56 PM
you know cats better start being original up in thi ish


you see when you see cats on the media ie tv, newspaper, magazine etc...telling the public about their daily lives and shit, they normally tell you about their status and some dumb stories about fake beefs and stuff, this is normally done by these underground cats who are obsessed with the mainstream dudes who get money


once you read the articles about them you get to hear a lot of bullshit, where cats will be telling you about their beefs with this and that blah blah, they be like " that nigga is whack, i told him in his face when we was in some gig"

once you read that you be like, ah this cat is gangsta how he gonn do pro or tuks like that? but when you get deep up in this ish, you find that this cat has been fighting with himself, the other dude wont even make a single response and then dude comes through and says he had a beef with tuks, matter fact whereas tuks wasnt even aware that some nobody cat was dissing him.


the public heres the shit and think the nigga is gangsta coz he was in a beef with tuks and he killed tuks, this is some really crazy ish,

and then the funny part is when you get closer to the dude and try to find out more about his beef with some mainstream dude, dude will be like " we was in some place, he was in some place, was pissed him and he never responded, we was in channle o and we dissed him and he was quite about the ish" damn motherf***ers how you gon fight with yourself?

once you get closer to these underground dudes you get to realize how fake they are and you just laugh your a** off when you get to see their real position in the rap game.

funny ish it is, espicially when dudes get pics with a few mainstream cats on some gig and act hard on them pics like they got this sort of a tight relationship with that mainstream dude whereas the dude was just doing a favor for his fan.

dude posts pic and pretends to be buddies with that nigga. what a fake!!!
 
Title: Re: originality
Post by: oints on October 15, 2008, 05:12:29 PM
We see the world as we are. Some cats fit formulas others break boundaries. Sometimes the end product is original, when the idea wasn't and vice versa.

WORD!
Title: Re: originality
Post by: watziznehmegin on October 15, 2008, 06:32:28 PM
thought of some more while eating my Wheaties, that I had forgot to mention..

DJ Kenzhero
tha hymphatic thabs
the constructus corporation
P.E.R.M.
Richard tha IIIrd

yeah.. I'll probably come up with more later..
Title: Re: originality
Post by: the panic! on October 15, 2008, 07:37:32 PM
@ Dpleezy. word. thanks for clearing that up. knew some people would get lost in the semantics. but that's basically what i meant. by the way, who would you list?

@Watz. can't believe i left out Audio Visual (do you have any tapes/albums by the way?) and Blk Sonshine. too dope. and sibot - man, there was a time when the whole African Dope contingent used to kill it. thabs is a staple, of course. haven't heard of P.E.R.M (put me on!). i must say though, i don't know about that Kenzhero guy. i mean, his sets to me have always been cool as far as playing all the right tracks at the right places at the right times goes. but other than that he doesn't really do much for me. what else does he do :-\?

@bornenbl3d. been sleeping on those ETC cats. see they've been getting shine in the niche media (Obrigado, One Small Seed). will peep. and yo put me on to that Invisible Man!

@Waylander. again, put me on bro. who's the Jerusalem Man? what's he on?



Title: Re: originality
Post by: watziznehmegin on October 15, 2008, 07:50:55 PM
As far as Audio Visual I got an old promo CD that featured the songs

A\V
Pop Type
Copastetic Phenomenology
Not Sayin'
and
Semen

As for P.E.R.M. it was a 9-piece crew from Jo'burg, which included Tumi, Zee, Strawmoon, Space2wice, Kju52, Richard The 3rd, McWillie, Neo Shamiyaa and Dilseng, they released a Tape called APT: An Artistic Representation of Truth, I only heard a couple of songs from it, but what I heard was out of this world, if anybody is reading this that has a copy, please, please, please hook a brother up!!


Now for Kenzhero, I have a CD of his called DJ Kenzhero Presents His Rare And Unreleased Bootlegs, Remixes And Instrumentals the CD is really dope, I really dig the samples he uses and the way he flips them, has a real jazzy bluesy kind of feel to it, the CD features Bhubesii, Vikinduku, 5th Floor, Damola, Zubz, Tumi and Lebo Mashile.

I'm going to upload the Audio Visual CD for people to download, because it needs to be heard, and a lot of people that I've mentioned this too, were unfamiliar with the material, AV are WAAAAYYY ahead of their time!
Title: Re: originality
Post by: the panic! on October 15, 2008, 08:16:29 PM
dope! upload that shit, yo! that P.E.R.M shit sounds too ill. yo, where can i get that kenzhero drop?
Title: Re: originality
Post by: TATEguru v.2K9 on October 15, 2008, 08:27:29 PM
Blk Sonshine is very original. Many influences sited but you'd never mistake their sound for anyone else.
Title: Re: originality
Post by: watziznehmegin on October 15, 2008, 10:08:27 PM
here's the link for the Kenzhero CD LINK REMOVED/download/8813899de3bd68/
Title: Re: originality
Post by: biz-ark-human on October 16, 2008, 05:20:38 AM
Here's a link to some of the P.E.R.M material available on the net:

http://www.hiphop.co.za/media/audio/perm/perm.html (http://www.hiphop.co.za/media/audio/perm/perm.html)
Title: Re: originality
Post by: the panic! on October 16, 2008, 09:11:42 AM
thanks, fellas.
Title: Re: originality
Post by: biz-ark-human on October 16, 2008, 09:44:55 AM
@bornenbl3d. been sleeping on those ETC cats. see they've been getting shine in the niche media (Obrigado, One Small Seed). will peep. and yo put me on to that Invisible Man!

Word, ETC Crew is bonkers, and their performances always come fresh and unhinged. Their DJ, White Nite, can also rock super-dope sets. Cop their album, got to their website (www.etccrew.com (http://www.etccrew.com)), support their hustle!!! (Sorry, but I'm a huuge fan :D )

As for Invisible Man, trax are tight. Not so sure about their stage presence though, they failed to impress me when I first saw them...but I figure that was only relative to the work they'd put out on wax, which is reallly sweet. Any links to their material? Maybe Tate has something...Second Son...anyone??

Title: Re: originality
Post by: SolitaryNative on October 16, 2008, 09:58:42 AM
@ the panic! and biz-ark-human

Yeah White Nite is sick enough. Mad amusing edge to that whole crew and they got mad flavour, sorry but I mean that in the truest sense of the statement. You should see White Nite's promo pic with the tissue in his nose.  That's that edge I like. No PM Dawn.

The Sensei would be the one to talk to re InvisibleMan. I have some stuff but I wouldn't be ok with upping that unseconded by Second Son. Would be supabeetch. I think the concept is fresh though, just hope it's not too broad for the SA picture, but who cares. Stagewise I can't comment, yet (hopefully!).
Title: Re: originality
Post by: biz-ark-human on October 16, 2008, 11:06:47 AM
And that's the image in question
Title: Re: originality
Post by: Koli qha on October 16, 2008, 04:36:54 PM
Who's 'The Sensei'?
Title: Re: originality
Post by: SolitaryNative on October 16, 2008, 04:44:42 PM
Are you sure you're ready, I mean really ready to take that pill? To know the unknowable truth?
Title: Re: originality
Post by: mphossiblepunkstah on October 16, 2008, 09:14:12 PM
Blk Sonshine is very original. Many influences sited but you'd never mistake their sound for anyone else.



no mistakeS there! i totally AGREE
Title: Re: originality
Post by: biz-ark-human on October 17, 2008, 04:58:29 AM
Who's 'The Sensei'?

Tate, TATEguru, yea, him...
Title: Re: originality
Post by: Thornz on October 17, 2008, 07:54:58 AM
Gini Grindith, ETC as mentioned already, Tumi and the volume (b4 disbanding)..good times, honerable mentions
Dark Lords (well,garlic brown really  :D) , The realist, Maniac Metalloids, Writers Block
5th floor but  think i've mentioned 2 many cape town based acts

NYAMBZ (u all know he was the first 2 run with that 'pete rock/dilla' sound, with an african twist)
cant think of new ones 2 add ryt now
Title: Re: originality
Post by: Dpleezy on October 17, 2008, 09:07:48 AM
(http://www.valuebasedmanagement.net/images/picture_rogers_adoption_innovation_curve.gif)

The Rogers Innovation curve is a model that cla**ifies adopters into various categories, based on the idea that certain individuals are inevitably more open to adaption or innovation than others.

As you can see, true innovation or originality only occurs in 2.5% of the population (according to this model).
Title: Re: originality
Post by: Koli qha on October 17, 2008, 12:37:14 PM
@ biz and born - well i'm The Kid! Sensei-tional. Thats y i was interested to kno
Title: Re: originality
Post by: SolitaryNative on October 17, 2008, 12:55:14 PM
Was just messing with you man. I will from now on refer to you as "The Kid" or "The Sensation" in future.
Title: Re: originality
Post by: the panic! on October 17, 2008, 01:23:15 PM
lot of development made. not enough lists.

name your people, people.

@Watz. damn homie, had no idea you were Sub-Z.
Title: Re: originality
Post by: watziznehmegin on October 17, 2008, 03:25:42 PM
Yup, that's me!
Title: Re: originality
Post by: ForDraftsSake on October 17, 2008, 05:48:11 PM
I truly am lost in the semantics without a grip (subjectivity coming into play sometimes has that effect).
How would the 'experimental' be defined then, or go as far as what's 'avant-garde', where both could
be said to also reconstruct the already existing? Lines are all too blurry methinks.