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Hip Hop Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bobby Banks on August 06, 2009, 08:55:37 AM

Title: The honeymoon is over
Post by: Bobby Banks on August 06, 2009, 08:55:37 AM
iv noticed that we have been engaging in very interesting debates on AG lately. just thought id add on to the theme of racism in the country. i took this article from news24.

the link:
 http://www.news24.com/Content/Columnists/MaxduPreez/1033/4140cd03c8b7438f84d7eabb0cade9e7/05-08-2009%2009-08/Non-racial_country_Non-sense


please read the following and comment on your own opinions about life in post apartheid south africa. i would really like to know how people right here on AG feel, especially after reading the comments on news24.

lets discuss

Quote from: Max DuPreezlink=topic=26613.msg218122#msg218122 date=1249392040
The struggle against apartheid was a "non-racial" struggle. "Non-racialism" is at the heart of our democracy and our new constitution. Non-racial, non-sexist, non-nuclear.

Non-sense.

South Africa is a multi-racial country, not a non-racial one. Multi-racial means we have several race groups, non-racial is supposed to mean race doesn't really count; we see the human being before we see race.

No we don't.

Thabo Mbeki didn't like white people, especially Afrikaners. He called them "colonialists of a special kind". In his mind you were either a "settler" or a "native".

Jacob Zuma replaced Mbeki after a camouflaged coup in Polokwane. This was the man who invited Steve Hofmeyr, Leon Schuster and Dan Roodt to a braai at his village. Some of his best friends are Indians. JZ loves the minorities.

Ja, right.

The post-Polokwane ANC, the Zuma-ANC is as every inch as chauvinistic when it comes to ethnicity as the Mbeki-ANC was. If not worse.

The simple truth is that if non-racialism was indeed alive at some point, it is now dead.

Stone dead. Deceased. It's snuffed it. It's not resting, it's not just stunned, it has pa**ed on. Kicked the bucket.

Racial solidarity, on the other hand, is alive and well and thriving.

Whites sit and wait for blacks to falter so they can shout: incompetent! Buffoon! Affirmative action! Quota system!

Around the braai whites swap their stories of uneducated, incompetent blacks who had been pushed into positions of power above them.

Their black counterparts also swap stories around the braai fires: of how racist their white colleagues are, of how there is still no real transformation, about whites being paid better than blacks even when they do the same job.

It is now the black man's turn, they say.

Many whites enjoyed it when the Judge President of the Western Cape, John Hlophe, demonstrated his utter unsuitability to be a judge of the high court by his racist utterances to white lawyers, by questionable business decisions and by trying to influence judges of the Constitutional Court to be pro-Zuma. You see, those whites said.

Black lawyers and others have formed the Justice for Hlophe Alliance and call every single white person who wonders whether Hlophe would be such a great choice as Chief Justice as a despicable racist. Hlophe has now become a national symbol of black pride just because so many whites don't like him.

At the Judicial Services Commission prominent black lawyers hara** all white applicants for judicial positions simply because their skins are of a pale hue.

The national leadership of the ruling party keep tjoepstil when their youth league clowns aim a barrage of racist and sexist attacks at the premier of the Western Cape. She's white and has the audacity to lead a party that has won the provincial election. She's got to be an evil racist.

Go to any internet chat room in South Africa and you will see three out of five white correspondents saying stuff like "we're a Zimbabwe in the making", and "blacks have proved all over Africa that they can't run an economy or a democracy".

Most of us South Africans still attack and defend from our racial trenches. Knee-jerk reactions.

The "rainbow nation" was just a mirage, after all.

Racial solidarity is the biggest enemy of harmony and progress in South Africa.

PS. In my column last month I defended Springbok coach Pieter de Villiers's right to be eccentric and say things that offend some. But I ended by saying: "It's just a pity he doesn't have the tactical and strategic abilities one would expect of the coach of the world's number one rugby team."

Well, after two convincing victories over the All Blacks I must swallow my words. No-one can still reasonably argue that the Boks' form is simply due to a hangover from the Jake White era.

I was wrong, Pieter. Sorry. Now rub it in by rubbishing the Wallabies.


Title: Re: The honeymoon is over
Post by: Alcohol Abuser on August 06, 2009, 09:25:15 AM
Race tensions will always be there long as we see colour which is enevitable, even in "democracies" which stood the test of time race is always blamed in some instances. The fact also black people have inferiority complex perpetuate the situation, africa as alomost the whole blacks embrace other people's religion, culture etc.  You got blacks in Sudan fighting based on who's arab and who's Sudanese, Black nigerians fightin and lootin houses because they want their state to have sharia*sp* laws which are of Islam religion. I don't think the foundation which have been laid for us for 300 odd years can just be wiped off in 15 years time "Blacks will always blame whites when the goin gets though irrespective of whether their mishap was of their own doing" and "Whites will always sit in the corner and laugh at Blacks for being incompetent baboons especially in fields e.g engineering which were predominatly white back in the days. my stupid 20cent
Title: Re: The honeymoon is over
Post by: Lord Deacon Of Frost on August 06, 2009, 09:27:37 AM
Colin Asked me not to read this
Title: Re: The honeymoon is over
Post by: motho on August 06, 2009, 09:27:59 AM
been reading the comments to this piece, very interesting indeed...

seems like this whole Judge Hlophe thing was a catalyst for a debate that had been long overdue.
Title: Re: The honeymoon is over
Post by: Papa ThReAdS on August 06, 2009, 09:34:12 AM
White folk can get these nuts as far as im concerned. Racism is very real, and isnt going anywhere. We might as well ride the shit out as long as we are here.
Title: Re: The honeymoon is over
Post by: Capt Schti on August 06, 2009, 10:02:56 AM
People are burning up townships and losing jobs.
Really, who cares about what a reduntant white liberal thinks.
They set the agenda in media during apartheid, and well because the media is still white, they want to set the agenda again post apartheid.
It doesn't work like that.

I think you need to realise that like most people most whites are not that smart, how many times can you have AA B.E.E argument.
How could you even talk to someone who doesn't understand the simple principle, you did something wrong, now it's time to right it.
Simple principle.
These are the same people who get touched inappropriately by a drunk uncle and spend years and thousands on therapy.
And believe in "justice".
What makes them believe black people don't need therapy for the horrors of apartheid.
Or that we don't need justice after years of job reservation?
Coz we is animal. Eh whatever...

Look, the townships are burning. The president is an imposter. Our education system is failing our children...mind you the losers here are all black.
The sooner we ignore them, and our leaders ignore them and stop calling into 702 to justify themselves to them the better because we need to work...oh boy do we need to work!
           
Title: Re: The honeymoon is over
Post by: Papa ThReAdS on August 06, 2009, 10:20:42 AM
People are burning up townships and losing jobs.
Really, who cares about what a reduntant white liberal thinks.
They set the agenda in media during apartheid, and well because the media is still white, they want to set the agenda again post apartheid.
It doesn't worl like that.

I think you need to realise that like most people most whites are not that smart, how many times can you have AA B.E.E argument.
How could you even talk to someone who doesn't understand the simple principle, you did something wrong, now it's time to right it.
Simple principle.
These are the same people who get touched inappropriately by a drunk uncle and spend years and thousands on therapy.
And believe in "justice".
What makes them believe black people don't need therapy for the horrors of apartheid.
Or that we don't need justice after years of job reservation?
Coz we is animal. Eh whatever...

Look, the townships are burning. The president is an imposter. Our education system is failing our children...mind you the losers here are all black.
The sooner we ignore them, and our leaders ignore them and stop calling into 702 to justify themselves to them the better because we need to work...oh boy do we need to work!
           

You tell no lies.
If i had a daughter to offer you, i would.

We need 300 years to right the injustices they imposed upon us. Let them suffer. I know this is in no way what you are implying in your post. But this is how i truely feel about the issue.

Am i a rascist? Yes. Is that a good thing? No. But at least i am honest enough to admit it. I am, after all, a product of years of injustice and prejudice. They created this so called monster, and now they say apartheid is over, and we should just deal with it. f*** them. Let them run to europe, where their europian counterparts are loosing their jobs and are enjoying flawless governments and faultless democracies.

They can all f***ing die for all i care. Im so sick of their constant nagging online about how blacks are the cause of all the wrongs in this country. I think i should stop here because im really getting emotional now.
Title: Re: The honeymoon is over
Post by: The Mighty Loks on August 06, 2009, 10:25:16 AM
[quote author=Capt Schti link=topic=26622.msg218356#msg218356 date=12 If you were running for president i'd vote for you.
Title: Re: The honeymoon is over
Post by: Capt Schti on August 06, 2009, 10:30:26 AM
People are burning up townships and losing jobs.
Really, who cares about what a reduntant white liberal thinks.
They set the agenda in media during apartheid, and well because the media is still white, they want to set the agenda again post apartheid.
It doesn't worl like that.

I think you need to realise that like most people most whites are not that smart, how many times can you have AA B.E.E argument.
How could you even talk to someone who doesn't understand the simple principle, you did something wrong, now it's time to right it.
Simple principle.
These are the same people who get touched inappropriately by a drunk uncle and spend years and thousands on therapy.
And believe in "justice".
What makes them believe black people don't need therapy for the horrors of apartheid.
Or that we don't need justice after years of job reservation?
Coz we is animal. Eh whatever...

Look, the townships are burning. The president is an imposter. Our education system is failing our children...mind you the losers here are all black.
The sooner we ignore them, and our leaders ignore them and stop calling into 702 to justify themselves to them the better because we need to work...oh boy do we need to work!
           

You tell no lies.
If i had a daughter to offer you, i would.

We need 300 years to right the injustices they imposed upon us. Let them suffer. I know this is in no way what you are implying in your post. But this is how i truely feel about the issue.

Am i a rascist? Yes. Is that a good thing? No. But at least i am honest enough to admit it. I am, after all, a product of years of injustice and prejudice. They created this so called monster, and now they say apartheid is over, and we should just deal with it. f*** them. Let them run to europe, where their europian counterparts are loosing their jobs and are enjoying flawless governments and faultless democracies.

They can all f***ing die for all i care. Im so sick of their constant nagging online about how blacks are the cause of all the wrongs in this country. I think i should stop here because im really getting emotional now.

Hate is cool.

But for a second think about something you love more.
That is to make sure that even though a kid is born in a squatter camp they feel like they can be a winner.
How you would love our sisters to stop seeing the only way to survive is to make kids and get gov grants.
How you'd love the smartest amongst us should be supported so that we have credible sucessful black C.E like a MTN and Dstv.
A corrupt free people centred goverment.  

And that's when you ignore these other people and we get to work.  
      
Title: Re: The honeymoon is over
Post by: Bobby Banks on August 06, 2009, 10:38:27 AM
People are burning up townships and losing jobs.
Really, who cares about what a reduntant white liberal thinks.
They set the agenda in media during apartheid, and well because the media is still white, they want to set the agenda again post apartheid.
It doesn't worl like that.

I think you need to realise that like most people most whites are not that smart, how many times can you have AA B.E.E argument.
How could you even talk to someone who doesn't understand the simple principle, you did something wrong, now it's time to right it.
Simple principle.
These are the same people who get touched inappropriately by a drunk uncle and spend years and thousands on therapy.
And believe in "justice".
What makes them believe black people don't need therapy for the horrors of apartheid.
Or that we don't need justice after years of job reservation?
Coz we is animal. Eh whatever...

Look, the townships are burning. The president is an imposter. Our education system is failing our children...mind you the losers here are all black.
The sooner we ignore them, and our leaders ignore them and stop calling into 702 to justify themselves to them the better because we need to work...oh boy do we need to work!
           

You tell no lies.
If i had a daughter to offer you, i would.

We need 300 years to right the injustices they imposed upon us. Let them suffer. I know this is in no way what you are implying in your post. But this is how i truely feel about the issue.

Am i a rascist? Yes. Is that a good thing? No. But at least i am honest enough to admit it. I am, after all, a product of years of injustice and prejudice. They created this so called monster, and now they say apartheid is over, and we should just deal with it. f*** them. Let them run to europe, where their europian counterparts are loosing their jobs and are enjoying flawless governments and faultless democracies.

They can all f***ing die for all i care. Im so sick of their constant nagging online about how blacks are the cause of all the wrongs in this country. I think i should stop here because im really getting emotional now.

i can understand why this would be an emotional issue threadz but could you please be a bit more sensitive with your remarks. there are afterall white people on this forum as well, who dont necessarily fall into this bracket of "white people" you speak so negatively of. lets try not to generalise as well please.
Title: Re: The honeymoon is over
Post by: motho on August 06, 2009, 11:29:31 AM

Black lawyers and others have formed the Justice for Hlophe Alliance  Hlophe has now become a national symbol of black pride just because so many whites don't like him.


The part in bold certainly doesn't apply to me. Been discussing the Judge John Hlophe case with a few friends this week.

and yeah I agree with Max Du Preez when he says that Hlophe has become a symbol for black pride. he is for me. Questionable business practices and trying to influence the Constitutional Court aside, I think some of the things he is championing make sense. I mean even the fact that he is lobying for support in order to become judge president is making legal history in SA coz its never been done before. I think they have about 23 candidates for the job, 16 whites and 8 Blacks. He has the experience and I know for sure that should he get the job, then some much needed change will happen in the justice system.

He is proposing radical change. Something that is very unrainbow nation-like but i think we all realise that the rainbow nation is a farce and there is work to be done. And at this time, he is the only one who seems up to the challenge. Pius Langa didn't even make much of a difference, I doubt many people have even heard of him.

Not just appointing black judges, but having judges speak to the accused in their African languages. I don't think it is any use to have a black judge at the high court if he is still addressing u (the accused) in English. A lot of these common criminals do not understand English let alone all the Latin words used, so therefore to a large extent, nor do they understand the implications of their 'sentences'.

having grown up in an environment where literally all my male cousins in Soweto have all been in jail or died during hijackings etc. When u visit them in prison and ask about the sentencing, all they know is that they did wrong and how many years they are going to be in jail for. They don't know why or how it was decided that they will get 20 years and they simply don't care coz it doesn't really matter anyway.

I am not saying that criminals are helpless, because it seems they have more rights than the rest of us sometimes. But we have to start somewhere, and that's why i am making big fuss about Hlophe. Who knows, i might feel different next week

Title: Re: The honeymoon is over
Post by: The Angry Hand of God on August 06, 2009, 11:35:46 AM
Max has always been one of my favourite columnists. I think you guys are missing the point of what he is trying to say in his column, just as the whites who are criticising him for it are.

He is leveling an accusation at the so-called Rainbow nation dream which a lot of you bought into. I think the problem may be that many are not that familiar with his work, or either he is probably not as good at getting his sometimes tongue in cheek opinion across in English, as he is in Afrikaans.

He is saying that a lot of the problems that he mentions are a result of our obsession with race. And like clockwork, you guys go and prove him right, by labeling all white people racists etc.

I have a lot more to say about this, but I have shit to do, so I will get back to it later.