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Hip Hop Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Supafly on August 11, 2005, 09:24:38 PM
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I'm trying this elsewhere, so I may just post some of the feedback that I get there in this forum. Basically, what I'm trying to do is see if we can establish some consensus about local rap songs released between 1990 and 2005 that we think would be representative of both popular tastes and musical advancement in the last fifteen years.
One catch: We're limited to 18 tracks, or rather we have have find 18 tracks that qualify. This all depends on whether you see the local scene as half deep, half empty ;)
I think it's okay for folks to just throw in as many titles as they want, but it's really important that they can also back that shit up. We can then tussle over the legitimacy of those songs.
Some of the songs I think should make it are:
Prophets Of da City's Our World. Looking back, many would consider the lyrics a little suspect, but I like the production and its infusion of local sounds. I also think the track reps African and South African hip-hop in a big way, and addresses the problems of pandering to American rap aesthetics.
Black Noise's Black Facts. I really use to give that Rebirth CD a lot of burn. Going back to it now, it doesn't stand up as well as it used to. But this track, with it's laidback production and KRS-One-style history lessons, is worth noting. It's not the most political song they've done, but it's Black Noise at its most balanced - decent production, decent lyrics. I don't know if that will do enough to qualify it as one of SA's best.
Bra**e Vannie Kaap's FNTB. This was quite big, although probably in Cape Town only. Not my favourite song by BVK, but I suspect their most popular and, possibly, their most influential.
I want to motivate for Mizchif's All The Areas, but I haven't heard that in a while, and some people feel 'Place For A Wife' was the bigger tune.
Add on.
It's the Supa!
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FISTLEE... word on the fookin brill-yunt IDEEE-AH, SOUPA.
1 quest tho, when you say released what exactly do you mean? many dope SA hip hop, in fact the vast majority was hand-to-hand on ca**etes and recently writable cds, and lots of the stuff was regional and never traversed the whole country.
Mind you I am exceeedingly intersted to see what peeps got to say.
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FISTLEE... word on the fookin brill-yunt IDEEE-AH, SOUPA.
1 quest tho, when you say released what exactly do you mean? many dope SA hip hop, in fact the vast majority was hand-to-hand on ca**etes and recently writable cds, and lots of the stuff was regional and never traversed the whole country.
Sheeit, that's a good point. I think an important criteria is that the songs must have been broadly accepted/considered cla**ic. But that would, as you've implied, rule out those under the radar tapes and CD-Rs. I am going to have to get some advice on that one. What do AG peeps think?
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Strange that this discussion would pop up today because I was listening to what I consider one of the all time cla**ic hip hop tracks called "Cape Crusader" by POC. I think the song was a good ending to one of the best hip hop groups from the African continent.
I agree with your choice of Black Noise's "Black Facts", it is certainly one of their stronger and more memorable tracks but when you look at their whole catalog there are many others worthy of mention. Take for instance "Color Aint Shit" off their first album. That was a powerful track and it was considered cla**ic way back, even when looking at it performed live, made their other songs sound bland. Another one worth mentioning is "Who Taught You To Hate Yourself". That was a powerful song.
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Strange that this discussion would pop up today because I was listening to what I consider one of the all time cla**ic hip hop tracks called "Cape Crusader" by POC. I think the song was a good ending to one of the best hip hop groups from the African continent.
That jam is in my top three joints by POC. But... and this is a big but, I don't think it was universally accepted. It wasn't popular; only the heads really knew about it.
Any chance you could hook me up with Black Noise's first album. I've pa**ed on it twice now, when I've seen it at 2nd hand stores.
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I can ask around and find a copy. don't have it at the moment though...
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@ fly imma hit u wit sum DOOM
i had the same idea...but not local mc's
guess its tru what ur thinking...some1 is already doing it
ahh well
let me post it any way.
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I think 5th Floor should be featured in your comp. I've been told that these cats are unsigned and they've been featured on the Harampe and Hype Compilation even without big recording deals. I believe they should get some recognition. I've listened to their album and considering that they had no financial backing I give them props!!
So my suggestion is either, "creation"/"Imbumba" from 5th Floor!
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i agree with slicin. Fifth floor is mos def slept on....I nominate Kreation and line for line!!!
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another vote for Kreation here..
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POC's 'Never Again'
Summn off Spex's rhymziwrote (Hizo, M.O.T.H)
Even though many ppl hate on him, Mizchif's 'Place for a wife' was a good track, even got an NY 12' release
Godessa, dont like the mc'in that much, but Grenville has got the illest beats - he's overlooked here on the AG
Groundworkx - Stereotype type
was a bit disappointed with the 5th floor album, production wise, i def wouldnt call any of the tracks cla**ic
Cashless Society? Hottentot hop
Def some of Nyambz shit, 'Once upon a time in africa'?
Hipe n mc Khalil 'Mystery of tomorrow' or whuteva the track is called
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Since I'm in the group... I'm naturally goin to have a biased opinion but yeah... put that 5th Floor shit on!!! Kreation or otherwize... Blaque_Poetess... 1st time I heard sumone who likes Line 4 Line... good look. slicin and Tate.. good look too..
Otherwize Hueman on Stereotype type... and I dunno if any of you ever heard Mr Devious' stuff he recorded for GhettoRuff... sum burners up in there 4 sure... Pity Lance shelved it & it was never released.
Otherwise.. ditto on all the other choices... dunno about that Mizchif though.. U'll need some Tumi, Zubz, Sudan, Shorty Skillz, Robo and maybe a Young Nations track too to make this and authentic SA banger.
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Hipe n mc Khalil 'Mystery of tomorrow' or whuteva the track is called
Actually its called "Ebony Flows".That track is too nice.Apparently MC Khalill is working on some new stuff.Just writing new songs and hoping to record sometime in the next few months.Cant wait for that to come off.Hey Ed, u think u can pop a remix of "Ebony Flows"?Would be too nice.With cuts and all.
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Also, some Ancient Men in there with "Sum Day", Konfab & Roze with "Hopolang Leeto" (still luving the production Ed), Isaac Mutant with "Str8 Talk" &/or "Rymklets" & Urban Militia with "Captn Jack".
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Hip Hop Royalty - Konfab (if that ain't cla**ic, then nothing is).
Dungeon Keeper(?) - Groundworks
Stereotype Type - Groundworks
Hottentot Hop - Cashless
Onus - X-24th Letter & Konfab
That shit nyambz did for Pro Kid
When Archetypes gets their shit together there will be cla**ic material there
I would add Trusenz (but I'm biased)
Last Emperor - Anon (again, biased)
Soon to be cla**ic - Drudge Dialect Mixtape
One to watch - Middle Finga
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Actually its called "Ebony Flows".That track is too nice.Apparently MC Khalill is working on some new stuff.Just writing new songs and hoping to record sometime in the next few months.Cant wait for that to come off.Hey Ed, u think u can pop a remix of "Ebony Flows"?Would be too nice.With cuts and all.
Puuuhlease!!!! I would kill to remix that track. That sample is too nice...wanna f*** with it. Hook a man up madd.
Got another track to add.
Unfortunately i'm not sure what it is called
by JBux, my own personal favourite local track to play on a big system
maybe someone who knows can enlighten me. Seeing that i cant exactly type/sing it to you (you know when u try to sing a track to someone - 'dum dih dum dih dum dum' - n they just look at u like u a fool - happens to me all the time)
Its got a slow ba**y guitar riff. Pretty straight forward, 4 bars, 3 equally rythmnd notes in each bar (except for last bar which has 1). The notes within each bar move in a straight upwad progression. every bar changes key.
rushay?
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hmmmmm ok we will talk bout the track the weekend if you gonna be at the hip hop indaba will be there saturday me and bux and some other cats much repect mr nasty ed
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http://www.coalyards.net/saraplist/index2.htm 8)
stuff which I think deserves a spot:
P.O.C. - Never Again
Shorty Skills & LOCO(Muthaload) - Keepin it LIVE(in 96)
Omen & Robo - Day 7
Tumi - My Posters
J-Bux - Mr. Nobody
Cashless Society - Blaze The Breaks
Groundworks - Casualities of Raw or Dungeon Keepers
Black Noize - African Sun or So-called Coloured
Spex - Yizo
Skwatta - Shut the F.
not really up to speed with South African hiphop in the last 4 years so excuse the bias for the older releases.
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funny mr nobody pops up again me and bux was chattin the other day and he was tellin me that shit is cla**ic man just imagine 20 years from now when we all oldish peeps listening to SA hip hop its like yesterday i can still remember chillin in the studio when that shit was done
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Co-sign Mr Nobody CLa**IC EASTERN CAPE MATERIAL!
Disagree with putting on Ancient Men, Konfab, Trusenz & any other up & coming artists. Dont think this is the right kinda compilation. Unless I've misunderstood the intent...
Word to the wise (edp aka Mr Prince): Carefull your tracklist starting to look more & more like that Harambe Dope sessions compilation (5th Floor, Mizchief, Cashless, Groundworkx..)
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Yeah, Mr Nobody, Thats the track that i was tryin to describe in my previous post.
DEFINITE cla**ic. Would love to remix it. Moment of pure genius on behalf of J, much respect to him n the beatmaker. Who produced it?
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I think Milk actually produced that one..correct me if I'm wrong
Oh yeah @ Nastie "EASTERN CAPE WHAT"?!
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isn't it best of SA rap music? it doesn't say greatest old skool SA hits.
anyway,,, interesting to read what people think.
I still haven't heard any 5th Floor yet. Someone was hustling the CD outside marvel but i'd just bought G-SUS's CD so i thought i'd done my bit for supporting local music for the night.
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^^ co-sign ON THAT!!!!
Again Tate a**umes if he dont know it, it aint shit.... Why pray tell shouldn't the peeps you earmarked not be included?
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I get the feeling this is more a Sound of the times CD & none of the aforementioned artsists have achieved a "Sound of the times" title yet.
Not to say that The Drudge won't establish Konfab as a "Sound of the times" emcee or whatever but as of this moment its not true.
Just my thoughts Ni99as!
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produced by Vincent Fraser
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Have I created a monster? :)
Maybe I need to explain more of my vision. Calling this a best of SA rap was probably a bad idea. An anthology might have been more appropriate. But even with anthologies one has to define the logic behind selecting some tracks over others. For me, I was trying to go with songs that defined or typified an era or various eras in the brief history of rap music in SA - which is why I nominated POC's Our World.
Anyway, I have tried to do a bit of stock-taking. How does this look so far? Comments and criticisms and flaming all welcome.
POC Our World (1990)
POC Neva Again (1994)
Black Noise Black Facts (1995)
BVK FNTB (1997)
Mizchif Place For A Wife (1998)
Spex Hizo (1998)
Godessa Social Ills (2002)
Groundworkx Stereotype
Cashless Society - Hottentot Hop (Blaze The Breaks) (2002)
Mista Devious Ken Jy Vir My? (Ive only got the a capella version; anyone got a version with beats?) (early 00s)
Tumi 76
JBux Mr Nobody
Skwatta Kamp Klaima / Umoya
ProKid Soweto
I haven't got anything to represent the following artists
Mr Selwyn
Amu
Konfab
5th Floor
H2O
Zubz
ProVerb
PEACE
Supa
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Peace edp:
Skwatta I gotta go with Umoya (no-brainer really)
Zubz - Superstar/ Handiende
ProVerb/Amu/Selwyn - Attention (another no brainer & I've already motivated it)
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Looking at Supa's reasoning, the anthology should really also have:
Sum Day - Ancient Men
Kallitz - Die DIng Ruk Mal
MC Khalil - Ebony Flows
Isaac Mutant - Rhymklets
Garlic Brown - Jack
BECAUSE they all typify different parts of the wide sprectrum that is happening in Cape Town and Afrikaans Hip Hop, while you might not be feeling Afrikaans for whatever reason, it is the language of a coupla million coloured people...and it has very articulate people who are speaking their lives in it.
It is as (South) african as anything Pro kid or Skwatta does. And not one of them has less than 15 years in this art, just being f***ing poor puts you deep underground, as a matter of course.
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BTW Madd or myself can get you audio on any or all of the above.
Also anybody at the Indaba will see and hear ANcient Men and Isaac Mutant performing at the Indaba this Friday.
The proof is in the pudding.
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f*** it,,, i'mma keep repping trusenz even if no one else has seen the light yet.
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Looking at Supa's reasoning, the anthology should really also have:
Sum Day - Ancient Men
Kallitz - Die DIng Ruk Mal
MC Khalil - Ebony Flows
Isaac Mutant - Rhymklets
Garlic Brown - Jack.
Before I dispell any of the above could either MADD or SYN motivate by telling us less diverse heads if any of those tracks are widely accepted in any hip hop community in ikapa? What I am asking is "Do any of those tracks popular or ven known by more than say 500 people? If not then they cannot be "Sound of the Times" tracks.
I for one have never heard any of them.
Not dissing afrikaans rap like I have sed I appreciate it for what it represents.I have issues with the roots of t language how it is tied to apartheid past & segregation of Blacks & (so called) coloureds..but thats a discussion for another thread..
SO go 'head I am listening my brothers..
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Before I dispell any of the above could either MADD or SYN motivate by telling us less diverse heads if any of those tracks are widely accepted in any hip hop community in ikapa? What I am asking is "Do any of those tracks popular or ven known by more than say 500 people? If not then they cannot be "Sound of the Times" tracks.
I for one have never heard any of them.
Tate, I know you asked MADD / Syn to respond, but I can definitely vouch for Kallitz. They have had good distro, they've been on telly, they're doing a record with Steve Hofmeyr (!), they're definitely exceeded their immediate target market.
The other artists, I can't really say. I just hope syntactic will hook me up with audio.
P.S. Re Afrikaans artists, I was also thinking that Dallah Flet really should be on there too. That was a seminal moment in SA rap in terms of the user of vernacular language.
PEACE
Supa
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Supa's motivated Kallitz rite ther ^^, Ancient Men's "Sum Day" has been on the GoodHopeFM playlist for the past 9 months, and was on our top40 chart for 8 weeks in the top 20, they've had 2 appearances on television on the strength of that track, Also they've performed at park jams in Ravensmead and belville soccer club to crowds of more than 700... they performed at this years Indaba to a coupla hundred...
Isaac Mutant performed to the same Indaba crowd and so Did this Paarl cat Jaakie, so I suppose he should be on there too.. thing is Tate you define Hip Hop in CPt without knowing enough about it, the few times you been here you done what besides go to Marvel, Hip hop been around the cape flats since the mid-eighties man, dont pretend to know anything.
Garlic Brown, Judah, with BVK and POC, Khalil performed at the same park jams as the Ancient Men..
So dont come wit your smarmy "EVEN 500 people" statements...............
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WESSIIIIIDE! WHUT!!?
*thows up the sign*
The mothercity gave birth to SA hiphop. Dont EVER forget that shit again...
Someone's gotta slap that little fledgeling into place. *SMACK*. Go to your room.
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Well, thanx Supa for giving peeps more info regarding Kallitz.Them boys are working hard and they are doing madd stuff man.Big ups to them.Seen them on the come up and they still putting their all into it.As for their popularity, if I'm not mistaken, they were song of the day on Yfm late last year when they went down to Jozi.And Steve Hofmeyr's a big fan.Madd respect.
As for Ancient Men's Sum day, just to add to what Syn said, they actually done 3 tv spots/interviews already and when peeps hear their sound, they flip man.The shows in CPT, everytime they garner new fans and even non-hip hop peeps are feeling "Sum Day" cause its that gr8.Basically, look out in the coming months, to all non-CPT peeps, for this track to hit radio.This is the track that TBo and his boys seemed to jack, not really great either I might add, but nontheless.Its time the rest of SA caught onto the Ancient Men.Also, they been doing their thing in hip hop for 10yrs plus.They are well known in the CPT underground.Ask almost anyone here and now commercial ears are catching on.
As for Isaac Mutant, he brings heat whenever he meets the mic.He's scary tight.He's been in it for almost 20yrs now.Underground knows him too well.And Garlic, aka Judah, is a member of BVK, but what u hear from him on those records is not even a fraction of the genius that is Garlic.All I can say is if him and Thabs should meet on a track.........DAMN!!!Now thats gonna be heat.
Jaakee been doing his thing for a while too.He's only now recently coming to the fore.Keep a look out for him.Started doing a tv spot not too long back and look to see him more prominently.
Think I'mma have to post snippets of those tracks Syn mentioned.What thinketh u? :wink:
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4 real Madd, unleash the noise and shatter the bliss of the unanointed.
CPT!!!!!!!!!!! WATTE NAAAAIIIIEEEEERRRRSSSSS!!!!!!!!
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Fair enuff I see cats be ganging up on me..
For the record I never sed I knew all about CPT hip hop. I simply asked cats to motivate which they have done now I respect & accept the motivation.
No direspect just asking mufukkkaz!!
P.S EDMOND can kiss my a**!
*quietly sits down in his place*
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Right after the spanking.
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Thats gay dude..
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Think of it in a 'loving-concerned mother' kinda way.
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C'mon brothas, let's keep that pseudo-kinky, playground shit outta the post. :twisted:
I'm trying to be constructive, and I need your input - not infighting. :lol:
We are going to have to think of ways to represent the broad spectrum of SA rap, because some artists are very different. They also had an impact in very different ways. If you were from the Bontas or the Plein, BVK's FNTB will hold a very special place in your heart from 97 or 98. But I'm not sure that track penetrated JHB in the same way. So, we do need to think about how we do this, without neglecting important influences.
Keep it coming like Organized Noise.
PEACE
Supa'
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Also, someone is going to have to hook me up with music by Isaac Mutant, Ancient Men etc. Syntac', can you help out?
PEACE
S-F-L-Y
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Hey Supa, Syn can certainly hook u up with the good stuff from the 2 artists u mentioned.The heat will be posted from my side, in snippet form, on this here forum too, though.Will see what I can bout that though, as well. :wink:
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Yeah, I'mma acgree with Dp.Tru got that vibe and I'm curious to hear him do some interesting collabs with different emcee's in SA........him and Ancient Men would be interesting.What u say Dp? :wink:
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Not to play devil's advocate :twisted: but...
Have you thought about the sequencing nightmare that such a project could pose?..
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Tate, please elaborate and explain what ur thinking is regardin this u speak of?
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Not to play devil's advocate :twisted: but...
Have you thought about the sequencing nightmare that such a project could pose?..
The quandry of sequencing has crossed my mind, Tate. I think we will have to leave that discussion for later. I first would like to build up a good selection of tracks.
Thinking about it now, it might make more sense for something of this nature to be pressed on ca**ette or vinyl, because you at least have the sense of 'sides' there. CD is just one long running order. Damn this digital technology. :cry:
Supa
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Take for instance "Color Aint Shit" off their first album.
PUMP LOOSE DA JUICE!
YYYYYYYEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!
I got that hot stuff if you wanted it, but I prefer the next track on the album, "lyrical trap". They were so creative, so ingeneous...
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i'm sure tru would be down, stone.
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Garlic Brown, Judah, with BVK and POC, Khalil performed at the same park jams as the Ancient Men..
So dont come wit your smarmy "EVEN 500 people" statements...............
Preach brother preach!
As much as I hate to admit it (...Jokes...), T8's trying to teach his teacher on this one. Don't a**ume things just 'cos you haven't seen or experienced them.
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Damn you Cpt peeps really jamming the nails in my coffin huh?
Looks like I committed forum suicide on this hurrr thread.
R.I.P Sensai_Tate :cry:
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*Nastie.ed stand silently in the corner, grinning with glee*
I am content. If I die this moment my life would be complete.
Tate: More salt? :wink: