Get Dropox | Luno Bitcoin | Ovex Crypto | Binance | Get Free Crypto - Morpher
Africasgateway.com

Communism Way Forward

Poll

Communusim, way forward?

yes
4 (50%)
no
4 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Voting closed: June 16, 2006, 10:19:09 AM

KONFAB

  • AG Regular
  • ****
    • Posts: 431
    • REP: +0/-0
    • View Profile
hahah... argued like a true idealist Very Happy

the revolution/renaissance will not be televised/aired online chap Wink

let me rephrase: the internet is the ultimate emissary of globilisation and this phenomenon will not be to africa's benefit... solarman is talking about "capitalising internally" as an escape from the former colonialists' clutches -> this line of thought is mutually exclusive with africa jumping onto the neo liberal economics bandwagon... globalisation does not benefit the poorest of the poor - only big corporations... hence the schism even in south african politics between the socialists (zuma) and the neo liberal economists (mbeki) -> it's again a micro vs. macro debate, though even on a macro level i've got my doubts regarding its long-term benefits...

it'll be my hand that slaps the back of your head in 25yrs time when the true evils of globalisation have daylighted and africa's still broke as uckf while caucasian apologists continue to promenade it on the world stage under the tacit banner "awww... look what they continue to do to themselves - let's give them more of our aids"...

those wretched american exchange students of anthropology (read: study of african primates) won't even need to leave home anymore to patronise us...
ttp://www.myspace.com/artikulatekonfab
http://www.myspace.com/writersblockcrew

the antePENultimate columnist with WRITERS BLOCK


DJ_Nastie_Ed

  • AG Extremist
  • *****
    • Posts: 928
    • REP: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Quote from: "KONFAB"
let me rephrase: the internet is the ultimate emissary of globilisation and this phenomenon will not be to africa's benefit...

those wretched american exchange students of anthropology (read: study of african primates) won't even need to leave home anymore to patronise us...


I think your argument is flawed in 3 ways. Firstly, you havent offered even remote substantation how the internet could possibly be used as the utimate and (i'm a**uming) 'evil' emissary of globalisation and why it would do harm to Africa.

Secondly, you are again generalizing and treating individuals as a distant categorical concept. "Those patronising american exchange students'.

Thirdly, your argument is laden with emotion,  not ideal in a rational argument and usually leads to subjective beliefs rather than objective truths

Basically what this comes down to is a belief in people.

I'm an idealist in that I claim that people are basically and intrinsically good and that they care. The internet, being a medium of the people (not going back there again.....think 'decentralisation')... is free to use as they see fit.

So in effect you would be claiming the opposite...which is that people are bad. Apologies if its roughly put but that is the essence. As far as I can see this is where we conflict. If this is the belief that you hold then I cant really argue with it and I guess that would be the cul-de-sac of this dialogue.

the OTHER possibility is that you refute the internet as being 'free' for the people, in which case you would have to offer a sound argument to convince me otherwise. But i'm interested in hearing it.


TATEguru v.2K9

  • AG Moderator
  • AG Veteran
  • *****
    • Posts: 5488
    • REP: +13/-20
    • Gender:Male
  • HIPHOCALYPSE MOVEment
    • View Profile
    • www.myspace.com/hiphocalypse
Wow I never thought reading a thread would  so closely resemble a bad A-Level history lesson.

Now look you psuedo-intellecuals managed to scare off the topic starter! :lol:


KONFAB

  • AG Regular
  • ****
    • Posts: 431
    • REP: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Quote from: "DJ_Nastie_Ed"
you havent offered even remote substantation how the internet could possibly be used as the utimate and (i'm a**uming) 'evil' emissary of globalisation and why it would do harm to Africa.


ya sorry you're right i haven't been substantiating... mainly cos i take for granted that you can appreciate the pivotal role the information age has played in economic globalisation... i'll spell it out for you: advancements in computer and communications technology (such as internet) have catalysed the global economy by enabling trade and investments to flow more easily between countries... translated, this is to say that capitalism (in the form of capital flow and trade in currencies) can now be constituted on a transnational basis without regard for borders blah blah blah...    

whether you see this as an 'evil' is a matter of opinion... and since you're an idealist who believes in the inherent goodness of man, you're incapable of ever seeing it my way which is that:

neocolonialism is very real and all globalisation does is facilitate this new form of imperialism where africa remains economically dependent on the west (in perpetuity)... for this reason they will always have indirect control over us... a significant proportion of the african national product is already allocated to payment of interest on accumulated foreign debts...

and again... globalisation is not sensitive to social justice therefore as in the case of south africa now, it becomes possible for a country to thrive economically in the international arena whilst the runt of the litter continue to suffer down below

Quote
your argument is laden with emotion,  not ideal in a rational argument and usually leads to subjective beliefs rather than objective truths. I'm an idealist in that I claim that people are basically and intrinsically good and that they care


you're right... this is where we fundamentally differ... in light of the manner in which africa has been ravaged by the west pre, during and now post-colonialism, i cannot find it in my rationale to place faith in their intrinsic goodness
ttp://www.myspace.com/artikulatekonfab
http://www.myspace.com/writersblockcrew

the antePENultimate columnist with WRITERS BLOCK


KONFAB

  • AG Regular
  • ****
    • Posts: 431
    • REP: +0/-0
    • View Profile
i'd actually be very interested in reading this Noam Chomsky's 'Manufacturing Consent'... if you got it on your person i got some shit you might wanna peruse over yourself (the african perspective :wink: )... shall we link up this wkend sometime?
ttp://www.myspace.com/artikulatekonfab
http://www.myspace.com/writersblockcrew

the antePENultimate columnist with WRITERS BLOCK


DJ_Nastie_Ed

  • AG Extremist
  • *****
    • Posts: 928
    • REP: +0/-0
    • View Profile
i think i have a photocopied chapter lying around somewhere....and I can hook you up with another book called 'Hegemony or Survival', outlining Americas evil deeds in the last 50 years.. Might be better to link after monday, gotta cram for an exam till then, then again let me know when you in town.

K...i'm beginning to relate to your perspective. Will make for interesting future discussions.


Dpleezy

  • Run Tings
  • AG O.G.
  • *
    • Posts: 6814
    • REP: +26/-56
    • Gender:Male
    • View Profile
    • Pioneer Unit Records
Manufacturing Consent is one of my favourite books. Highly recommend it.


solarman

  • "4ROM CHAOS 2 COSMOS"
  • AG Hustler
  • ***
    • Posts: 161
    • REP: +1/-4
    • Gender:Male
    • View Profile
    • Son of the Soil
As UBUNTU nature has it, when matters in the community are brought forward for the general public to view, voice and conclude, immense intellect, growth and forward movement is due.

No sensei tate, i'll neva back down in "syfa of fya", one has to humle amd listen to have a broad outlook.
When i posted this topic, a did not know as much as i do now, in the positive and the negetive of the issue at hand

When i talkrd about communal livity, i meant it in its full context, not with an intertwined political outlook, but an actival minstate. Biko says that the most important weapon in the hands of the opppressors is the mind of the oppressed! One has to decolonise the minstate fistr,. Even this phrase, Communism is an articulated style i overstand by so called liberalists who studied and noted the ways of the humble azanian with a sense of ubuntu from child birth, manipulated it with his indoctrine of roman-dutch laws, verwoedism etc.. yes all of the alumni order including the g8 and so forth.

How can we be a free people witout land? whats this democracy kak? i might have been young but prior to 1987, wee had no such word in the azanian vocab! we want land, thats one thing mugabe has! Mandela and them, when they signed that freedom charter, they sold us, til this day we are sowing what we don't reap, reaping what we don,t sow!
Aluta Continua, Ubuntu is way Forward, So did said da Son Of Man: Be a Fisher of man! :idea:
Mathintela


solarman

  • "4ROM CHAOS 2 COSMOS"
  • AG Hustler
  • ***
    • Posts: 161
    • REP: +1/-4
    • Gender:Male
    • View Profile
    • Son of the Soil
Azanian Souljahs,
Your contributiuons to this discussion and poll has truly enlightened me  primarily and others who actively participated in dat "syfa of fya".

As i had briefly pointed out already,communal livity is a man made law,derived and from a manupilated state of  UBUNTU (which is propelled by Self Knowewledge first). King Moshoeshoe, in his humane theocratic governance, gave the colonists land as they had requested it from him formerly and officailly. What he did not know is that these very same people started selling land between themselves, and soon land now had monatory value which did not exist in native Azania. History reveals peeps.

I agree, we can not run away from the ma**ive globalization wave that has hit us. Yes all ism & schisms that exist in this time determine the simple decisions man makes to survive, but that does not mean it cannot be countered.
Prior to colonization, not even white colonization, but within ourselves, customs that were in place since the cosmic birth were means of livity. the laws of nature need to be realised even in this time for us to exodus to the next level of human development, thats just common sense. We truly need to take a step back to march forward. Call me primitive, jus like the ancient Azanian Xhosa Warriors led by King Gondo,"Izivatho Zengqobhoko lulunya lwamaQaba":Translated; "Robes of Missionaries/colonists, is da scorn of da natives"

Everything in the name of socilities & humanities is built and based around Nubian/Kemite teachings which we Azanians as descendants of the Embo Nation inherited through arts and culture & recreational activities.
Elders of old used word of mouth, story telling,Imbizo's would be called to pa** on to the next generations the secrets and traits of survival, according to mother nature.
In Timbuktu there such things as a "house of light", synagouges of higher learning(builders of pyramids, mayans, aztec, nazarenes all went throgh these mediums of educatiuon) where motive was to prove everything,in this modern day they cal them schools! Colonists stripped away our identities by uprooting our language, culture & simple way of living, Ubuntu! But  as the laws of nature stands,such a force/energy cannot be destroyed or created, only transfered and prolonged, from generation to generation until a climax is reached, most high.
 Clearly, prior to roman-dutch law induction, this was a land prosperous in all departments of socialities.So why now can't we rise to where we were using all the knoweledge that the colonists have manupilated and made theirs,with what remains sacred, da beat of da drum! Word, Sound and Power.
If we think we are going to beat these guys at their own game is stupid, know their game and uplift yours!

If we come as polititians/economists etccc..bounded by a roman -dutch constitution in Greater Azania, we might as well jus go along with the flow.
Konfab, u have power in your hands, da mic! Hughy P was instrumental, so was Biko and matyrs they became.
As in the Battle of Adwa 1896, fascist Italians invading Emperor Menelik II throne with 800 000 soldiers to Ethiopians' 100 000, the beat of the drums by the Uhuru,Mau Mau & Nyabhingi warriors in the mountaneous plains of East Nubia called upon the whole of nature, battle was won by Ethiopia with all odds, technology and numbers against them, the war is still on!

Capitilize internally,centralise and mobilse peeps through our arts and culture(spokenword sessions, Iimbizo, Hip Hop sessions, native theatre and musical arts, & crafts), aim to decolonise the mind by the conent of the obove tools of activism!Counter politics with ubuntu/arts and culture! our resources must remain here if we are to stand against Goliath!

Aluta Continua :idea:
Mathintela


Dpleezy

  • Run Tings
  • AG O.G.
  • *
    • Posts: 6814
    • REP: +26/-56
    • Gender:Male
    • View Profile
    • Pioneer Unit Records
Can you be more specific?

Mobilise people to do what exactly? Can you give me some clear cut example of what you are asking people to do. I am a very simple person amd I don't understand what you are talking about. All I can hear is rhetoric,,, "capitalise internally", "decolonise the mind". All this language is very confusing. I am not being sarcastic,,, I would honestly like to understand what kind of society you envisage (in practical terms).

If all of this means that, practically-speaking, I'm gonna have to throw away my studio, stop making hip hop beats and become a Nyabhingi drummer, then that's gonna be a problem for me.

It's ironic that you are using the internet ("the ultimate emissary of 1st world imperialism" - Konfab) to get this message across :)


solarman

  • "4ROM CHAOS 2 COSMOS"
  • AG Hustler
  • ***
    • Posts: 161
    • REP: +1/-4
    • Gender:Male
    • View Profile
    • Son of the Soil
Azanian Souljahs

Ubuntu.U.B.U.N.T.U! that is the order! no one said stop ur current hustles, but know that the materials of this world will remain here, shall perish, but the mindstat? , go figure!!!  Now , please don't try to overstand if u can't! and hey, as stated b 4, we cannot ignore the globalization wave that has hit us, to truly decolonise, we have to smart, use what is at our advantage for the gain of ubuntu. :idea:

Aluta Continua
Mathintela


Dpleezy

  • Run Tings
  • AG O.G.
  • *
    • Posts: 6814
    • REP: +26/-56
    • Gender:Male
    • View Profile
    • Pioneer Unit Records
So Ubuntu is like being cool with other people?,,, not trying to f*** up other people in order to get what you want? Is it like a form a socialism? How would it manifest in terms of a practical way of life? Who would make decisions? If an aggressive state invaded South Africa who would command the armies? Would there be armies?


VirginPussy

  • AG Extremist
  • *****
    • Posts: 984
    • REP: +4/-2
    • View Profile
It's ironic that you are using the internet ("the ultimate emissary of 1st world imperialism" - Konfab) to get this message across :)[/quote]

not only does Mr Communism use the internet the "ultimate emmissary of 1st world imperialim", King umuntu umuntu ngabantu has his own hierachy structure starting an events company tht in no way goes for wat he speaks of...maybe in order for others to take things u say more seriously you've got to put ur word into practise...
 am hell behold!


solarman

  • "4ROM CHAOS 2 COSMOS"
  • AG Hustler
  • ***
    • Posts: 161
    • REP: +1/-4
    • Gender:Male
    • View Profile
    • Son of the Soil
Azanian souljah,

the questions u r asking are truly on point and relevant.
Yes there will be armies, but not armies bounded by a roman -dutch constitution and law!
 :idea:
Mathintela


solarman

  • "4ROM CHAOS 2 COSMOS"
  • AG Hustler
  • ***
    • Posts: 161
    • REP: +1/-4
    • Gender:Male
    • View Profile
    • Son of the Soil
nuwepussy, get ur facts right, r u aware of the fundementals of the above mentioned events organization? if u think u do to what degree? :idea:  :?:  :!:
Mathintela