Hip Hop in SA = Middlecla** phenom

TATEguru v.2K9 · **on:** July 19, 2006, 02:26:55 PM

Just listening to the ProVerb track "Women"...

with lyrics like

"You equipped me with all the right tools;
took me to private schools..."

"You bought me my first car when I was 21.."

It just re-inforced for me the fact that Hip Hop in SA is very much a middle cla** phenomenon.
Why is this concerning? Well just how big is the middle cla** market in SA? Kinda seems limited in growth potential.. I mean how many records & shows can the few sub-urbanite model C kids really support?

I appreciate "cross-over" artists like ProKid that much more for their ability to reach to the lower income market. GROWTH!

briCK · **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2006, 02:36:56 PM

*sigh*

churchofthe latterdayLatte · **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2006, 02:49:41 PM

I keep saying this too... which is why SA hip hop is soooooo soft.

Nthabi · **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2006, 03:39:37 PM

Quote from: "melanin latte"

I keep saying this too... which is why SA hip hop is soooooo soft.

What do you mean it's soft?
Do you mean the artists aren't verbally "hardcore" enough or just that it bothers you that most people try their best to avoid beef and ish?
Just interested...that's all :wink:

rob_one · **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2006, 04:23:47 PM

Tell that to all the kids in Fingo/Joza/Xolani/Gugulethu/Khayelitsha/Alex/Soweto who are obsessed with hip-hop.

Bit weird to base that a**umption on a song by, um, Proverb? Methinks yes.

churchofthe latterdayLatte · **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2006, 04:56:29 PM

Nthabi, you know what happens when we do this...LOL

not in a beef sense at all girl. I just feel that SA hip hop- or the component of it that gets the most exposure is soft- so pink golfT-shirt and naked nights -there isnt that street,gritty feel to things if you know what I mean. which is why I usually say I respect the Kwaito fraternity for speaking to SA youth in the way they know how- they dress like us, speak and spit like us, and adequately represent where most of us are from (hoods/disadvantaged joints).I feel like Kwaito has this natural real, raw, hardstreet but local appeal and credibility to it that speaks to SA youth in a way that SA hip hop hasnt been able to.

@rob

things are changing for the better. when i mission hip hop sessions ekasi, i spot mad potential in the younger kids, that could not give two hoots about hennessy or whatever these grown cats are concerned with- that are still pure in that they spit what they know of themselves and where they're from. the winds of change and growth they blow....

WE SHOULD NOT ACT LIKE THERE IS NOTHING TO BE LEARNED FOR SA HIP HOP IN KWAITO.

Dpleezy · **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2006, 05:25:18 PM

Quote from: "melanin latte"

Nthabi, you know what happens when we do this...LOL

not in a beef sense at all girl. I just feel that SA hip hop- or the component of it that gets the most exposure is soft- so pink golfT-shirt and naked nights -there isnt that street,gritty feel to things if you know what I mean. which is why I usually say I respect the Kwaito fraternity for speaking to SA youth in the way they know how- they dress like us, speak and spit like us, and adequately represent where most of us are from (hoods/disadvantaged joints).I feel like Kwaito has this natural real, raw, hardstreet but local appeal and credibility to it that speaks to SA youth in a way that SA hip hop hasnt been able to.

WE SHOULD NOT ACT LIKE THERE IS NOTHING TO BE LEARNED FOR SA HIP HOP IN KWAITO.

I couldn't agree more. In fact, I might even quote you on that

TATEguru v.2K9 · **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2006, 06:06:05 PM

Lets be real Rob Hip Hop ekasi is NOWHERE near as big as kwaito is. I support the latte's post completely and add that I think it may have something to do with the composition of some "popular SA Hip Hop".

Considering the profile of some of the artists & the content of their material makes them relatively harder to access to the average SA youth. Don't get me wrong I Love me some Zubz; Tumi and ProVerb but I can see where these sort of artists would be harder to access/relate to if I hadn't had the eductional/ socio-economical background I have.

Supafly · **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2006, 07:32:43 PM

Be careful, though.

Those rappers in the US who front (note choice of words) so hard generally have had quite cushy upbringings. Are you suggesting that 'middle cla**' rappers like ProVerb, Zubz and Tumi should change their steez; targeting working cla** kids?

And let's not forget that much of the hardcore/struggle/gangsta/crack-inflected rap music produced in the US is sold to white, suburban America.

What does it mean to identify with lyrics? Are you a**uming that 'working cla**' kids can only identify with 'working cla**' ideas in music? How do you explain the number of black 'working cla**' folk who follow American soaps on SA TV?

Supa

Killa Merc · **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2006, 07:50:05 PM

Hip Hop in SA is far from being a middle cla** thing. It's so diverse that you cant say it is a cultural Or artform of any particular cla**. However, most township people still relate to Kwaito that they do with hip hop. But this is changing – hip hop has been growing in the townships as well.

Problem is that it’s so divided that most middle cla** kids are on a different tip to township kids. The township cats doing hip hop are normally dissed for being “kwaitoish”. The township cats also c0onsider the “accent” rappers fake.
If people can realize that being hip hop does not mean behaving / speaking in a certain way – i.e. you don’t have to have Pro Verb’s accent to be regarded a true head.

I still think hip hop portrays and expresses the situation and experience of urban your more than Kwaito or any genre. Kwaito is primarily a dance music genre. Hip hop is deeper than that. As people realize the essence of the culture & (that it’s not about talking or dressing that way) and the art form, hip hop will grow amongst township kids. People should be able to spit in their own languages about their experiences & it should be fine. If it’s still hip hop it should be OK

It’s still far from being a middle cla** issue. In fact most heads who’ve been in hip hop for a long time fell in love with hip hop whilst living in the townships. They might have

It’s amazing, but in the township I grew up in, I always find a new converts into hip hop whenver I return. People who used to laugh and ridicule you, now see you as their source of old hip hop albums. It’s like they suddenly realize that it’s taking to tem or about them or it’s the flavour of the moment or for whatever reasons. But it’s happening.

It’s not pro – listen to bhubesi, ngwenya, middle finga, tuks, . this stuff should find
resonance with most township youth. What’s also interesting is that many ekasi are down / were down with Pac, Biggie, etc.

K9 tha Pedigree · **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2006, 08:07:24 PM

Soft is aight

Eshu · **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2006, 09:09:14 PM

I dont think u can cla**ify hip hop by cla**, cause as an art form its all about breakdown of catorgaries rather than sticking to them. Sure most workin cla** people listen to kwaito, but i think if u look at most middlecla** people you will find that most of them dont listen to, what i would label, hip hop( most listen to mtv type pop). Truth is hip hop has gone beyond ( not completely) representation of the working cla** and is now centred on the 'craft' of the form in the same way jazz is.

Dpleezy · **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2006, 11:06:47 PM

"Yo son these niggas never got consignment, popped off iron,
wore fila flip flops under their cot on the island,
paid a lawyer with street money to eat an indictment
yet they want the same f***ing respect that i get
I was supplying during a drought, fifteen hundred an ounce,
(the only) Nigga with work, if you ain't want it, bounce."
- Cormega

Like French said, Soft is aight,,, but we don't really have any rappers over here that could compete with that. Not to say that what Mega is talking about is desireable, but that's real street shit from an authentic hustler.

rob_one · **Reply #13 on:** July 19, 2006, 11:20:27 PM

Guess someone round here has to hold the unpopular opinion. I'm sticking to it.

Nthabi · **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2006, 09:08:39 AM

Quote from: "melanin latte"

Nthabi, you know what happens when we do this...LOL

not in a beef sense at all girl. I just feel that SA hip hop- or the component of it that gets the most exposure is soft- so pink golfT-shirt and naked nights -there isnt that street,gritty feel to things if you know what I mean. which is why I usually say I respect the Kwaito fraternity for speaking to SA youth in the way they know how- they dress like us, speak and spit like us, and adequately represent where most of us are from (hoods/disadvantaged joints).I feel like Kwaito has this natural real, raw, hardstreet but local appeal and credibility to it that speaks to SA youth in a way that SA hip hop hasnt been able to.

WE SHOULD NOT ACT LIKE THERE IS NOTHING TO BE LEARNED FOR SA HIP HOP IN KWAITO.

Oh!I didn't get it, but now I understand where you're coming from and you're quite right hey. There isn't much credit given to the streets.It's like once people get to the top, they tend to forget how they got there in the first place. It's no longer about Hip Hop as a whole, but rather how big each individual's pocket is getting. I'm not saying being broke is cool, but come on people.Let's not forget that the streets paved the way so that you could get to where you are today.
....HMMM :idea:
That gives me an idea for a track....Thanks gal :wink: