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SA hip hop vs Hip hop made in SA

Vexer

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Quote from: "cash"
my reality right now is - pourin vodka and hennessey, ballin outrageous, rockin hiphop, spittin  that FIRE, hollerin at foreign hoes,poppin tags, f*** cris, we was sippin on moet shootin videos in Cape Town. all my niggas is ballin!

when we was broke we wasnt doin all this! but im sayin! its everybody's dream to live the good life!!!! its not jus for Americans! like what?are we not supposed to live good? are we supposed to rather focus on kasi life and poverty!? i got outta that! now im livin how i wana live! rockin what i wana rock! sayin what ever the f*** i wana say! speakin how i wana speak! real talk! when SONY approached us they wanted us to be more "south african", i hollered at my moms(the definition of an african woman!) and she said NAW MAN! DO YOU! DONT DO THAT SOUTH AFRICAN THING!!! MUSIC IS GLOBAL!!!! WHAT U DOIN IS DIFFERENT! THATS WHY WE LOVE IT!( 99,9% the people of UMTATA!!!) WE WANA SEE AFRICA PROGRESS INTO THE FUTURE! WE TIRED OF ALL THESE KWAITO PEOPLE WHO ALL SOUND THE SAME AND HAVE NOTHING RELEVANT TO SAY!!!DO SOMETHIN THAT THE GROWN UPS CAN RESPECT! in a nutshell,she made my hustle official! she gave it merit and said run with it!!!!

thats wisdom right there! yall jus talkin bout how its supposed to be! im tellin u how it is!!!!!!!!

this is bigger than SA!!!!! its global!!! we gotta hav fans in new york to japan!!! the SA market will support u more if u go global!!!!! im more of a universal mc than an SA mc!!!! im proudly SA but see further than these borders! now u gon knock me cos im thinkin out your usual BOX!!! damn!!!
thats life!!!!!


Cash, if that's how it is for you cool.But all I ask u to consider is a couple of things.

Firstly, who defined "balling" for you?In-fact who even brought that word into your vocabulary and frame of reference?

Also who taught u to a**ociate the word with sipping moet, foreign "hos" etc?

Its not about u staying broke or acting like u're broke but its also a question of how u perceive the notion of success. Your perception of the notion of success seems influenced by rap lyrics.

Its different for instance from what the middle or capitalist cla**' perception of what success is.

Who taught u to interpret success in that way, and also to celebrate and articulate it in that manner?

Do u think that's a universal notion of success that u hold or rather it reflects the views of the black american undercla**?

Is that view of success appropriate in the African context?Does it do anything to advance our hustling in our own individual context as Africans?

For instance why aren't you talking about BEE schemes, stocks, shares, mutual funds and bonds?Isn't this what we really need to learn about in order to be successful?

Your frame of reference seems to have been limited by rap lyrics and u don't really pause to consider how the objects of your frame of reference i.e. moet and "hos" are relevant in our context and what purpose they actually achieve.

That's how deeply embedded in your consciousness the black american undercla** frame of reference has become. To the extent that it comes out from deep within you as a mental reflex.

Just pause to consider this if u will.I think a lot of headz r still in that very same headspace.

About going international, I don't think going international depends on how well u can soak ur music with an American/Foreign frame of reference.

For instance, Oliver Mtukudzi, Baba Maal, Yousou Ndoor (excuse my spelling), Salif Keita, Franco Luambo to name just a few made it big internationally by sticking to their own frame of reference.

Artists like Bob Marley, Fela Kuti, Harry Belafonte, Miriam Makeba, Lucky Dube etc who communicated in English were still succesful bcoz they used the English language to depict their unique frame of reference.

They didn't portray anything else other than their situations as individuals and as a people. They didn't adopt a foreign frame of reference in order to garner success.

So I believe u can make it internationally even if u flow in English but ultimately ur stories must depict where u're from in the unique vernacular of the English language that exists in ur own area e.g. the Nigerian slang used by Fela or the Jamaican slang used by Bob Marley.

I honestly think if u try and come across like an NY cat to real NY catz u'll come across as a joke. At the end of the day we don't really understand the nuances of their culture just like they don't understand ours.

Listening to Hip-Hop CDs doesn't really allow u to live vicariously thru the situations the rappers r talking about. U can learn how its like for them over there, but U can never fully understand how it is bcoz u really don't walk in their shoes.

The whole world wants to know how its like to walk in ur shoes and we want to hear u say it in ur own unique way.This is what I believe makes a great artist.

Pac used to weep in ebonics and Biggie used to be ruthless & unflinching in the same vernac.That's what made them so dope.

When its all said and done, I wish u luck in ur career, and I don't want to come across as a prophet of doom bcoz at the end of the day we're dealing with art which is subjective.
I stay chiseled


cash

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yo Vexer.....hiphop defines me!!!!!! i dont try to define hiphop!!! unlike you!!!!
my frame of references are simple! im not trying to complicate the obvious!!! as human beings we are driven to achieve - mainly love,acceptance,wealth,spirituality and fulfilment in life!!!!!!!! thats what im all about!!! "ballin" is a black thing! u dont gotta go all the way to america to realise that! its in my nature to wanna floss! look at these BEE niggas pushin mad german whips and livin in mansions!!! look at tony yengeni ballin to the courtroom!!!! i was into ballin before i even got introduced to hiphop!!!its that simple! dont try make it out to be somethin it isnt!!!!!!!

i really dont give a flyin f*** about black american undercla**!!! this is all about hiphop!!! f*** the undercla**! they jus as broke as most my niggas here!
the hiphop movement is different! were achievers!!!! we grow!!!! we aspire!!!! we BALL cos we can!!!!

i aint tryin to come across as anything but myself!!! bottom line!!! the way you interpret me is your own! i represent the EC to the fullest! it aint my fault im jus that nice that u can compare me to the hottest in NY!!!!

stop makin everything into rocket science! i keep it simple and true! u tellin me how it should be(idealist)! im tellin u how it is!!!!!(realist)!!!

biggie and pac! yeah! thats one of my frames of reference!!!
and i know u want me to succeed cos i reflect a part of you that excites you!!!!!!that part of you that wants to go against the grain!!! that part of you that you would rather conceal! cos once its unleashed its gonna explode and take over everything uv been brainwashed into believing is wrong or right!!!! and thats a beautiful thing!
@cash_sog


Bondizzo

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compare you to the hottest is NY  :roll: , I think your being too cocky, and wheres your track record ? How come I still haven't heard of you ?


cash

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Quote from: "Bondizzo"
compare you to the hottest is NY  :roll: , I think your being too cocky, and wheres your track record ? How come I still haven't heard of you ?


act like u know nigga!!!!!!! hahaha! that statement wasnt cocky! i get compared to the likes of Jay a lot! like i said- it aint my fault!!!!

track record? check out FORUMS-MEDIA-THE MONOPOLY(MORE CRACK)!!!
or holler at real niggas like morale,xplicit,donnie brasco,basemob,anybody in umtata(EC!)! holler at dj waxxy,dj fresh, tbo touch(i had two no.1 hits on metro natioanl hiphop charts!),holler at IGHO(nigeria's finest!!!), holler at the streets, got a video on rotation on channel o(was nominated for top100 videos in 2006). holler at clinch!
even the whack niggas know me!!!!

i aint even need to have a track record, i got a CRACK RECORD!!!!!!!
@cash_sog


Vexer

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Quote from: "cash"
yo Vexer.....hiphop defines me!!!!!! i dont try to define hiphop!!! unlike you!!!!
my frame of references are simple! im not trying to complicate the obvious!!! as human beings we are driven to achieve - mainly love,acceptance,wealth,spirituality and fulfilment in life!!!!!!!! thats what im all about!!! "ballin" is a black thing! u dont gotta go all the way to america to realise that! its in my nature to wanna floss! look at these BEE niggas pushin mad german whips and livin in mansions!!! look at tony yengeni ballin to the courtroom!!!! i was into ballin before i even got introduced to hiphop!!!its that simple! dont try make it out to be somethin it isnt!!!!!!!

i really dont give a flyin f*** about black american undercla**!!! this is all about hiphop!!! f*** the undercla**! they jus as broke as most my niggas here!
the hiphop movement is different! were achievers!!!! we grow!!!! we aspire!!!! we BALL cos we can!!!!

i aint tryin to come across as anything but myself!!! bottom line!!! the way you interpret me is your own! i represent the EC to the fullest! it aint my fault im jus that nice that u can compare me to the hottest in NY!!!!

stop makin everything into rocket science! i keep it simple and true! u tellin me how it should be(idealist)! im tellin u how it is!!!!!(realist)!!!

biggie and pac! yeah! thats one of my frames of reference!!!
and i know u want me to succeed cos i reflect a part of you that excites you!!!!!!that part of you that wants to go against the grain!!! that part of you that you would rather conceal! cos once its unleashed its gonna explode and take over everything uv been brainwashed into believing is wrong or right!!!! and thats a beautiful thing!


Cash.The only thing I asked u to consider is why u express and interpret ur reality like a black american from the American ghetto.

This is not a simple thing bcoz it requires u to confront urself on a number of levels bcoz ultimately u'll be questioning your self-concept and identity.

U honestly don't view ur current self-concept as a derivative of the black american ghetto experience which is fine.

However, I think ur self-concept is a derivative of this experience hence ur current perception of what reality is and isn't. e.g. for u success equates with 'balling', sipping moet, hennesy, "dropping kris" etc which is exactly what the ghetto perception in America is all about.  

All I'm saying is maybe if headz stopped being black american derivatives then their music would also stop being a black american derivative.

I don't think u represent me at all bcoz our perceptions of reality are radically different and my self-concept is not constructed around the various facets of the black American ghetto experience.

Its clear that u work hard and u got ur deal thru it so I have 2 respect the work ethic u have and where u've managed to take ur vision.

Only time will tell whether that's a workable vision and that choice is up to the people.

Good luck.
I stay chiseled


cash

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so be it!!!!!!!!
while i grind and work my way up! keep pondering and coming up with more intuitive and hypothetical ideas!!!!!

reality is, the best way forward is the simplest way forward! the more complicated u make things, the slower your progress!!!!

u already know what im about, and u LOVE IT NIGGA!!!!!!!! im bringin HEART to the game!!!!!! Courage Ambition Strenght and Hustle!!!!!! thats me!!!!!!!!!!! thats what i represent!CASH!!!!!! if u dont represent that! COOL!!! iv looked way deep into my soul and realised that only God can judge ME"ahem - tupac", and he dont look at things the way u do! trust me! he dont care about your ideals! he sees what it is! the way it is! people have perceptions. like U, like ME!!!! but im about breakin those perceptions and bringin my reality into the peoples minds!!!!!!!!!

im bringin a whole different way of thinkin! and for those such as yourself who have extensively thought out shit! me comin and saying CHANGE YOUR WAY OF THINKIN!! its harder for u to do that! ur where i was before i changed my way of thinkin! ur still fighting with yourself!!!!!ur still in conflict with yourself!!!! still teething!!! im way beyond that!!!!

im neo in the matrix!!! matter fact iv cracked the matrix!!!!!!!! im ten neos in one!!!!

HOller at ya boy!!!!! :lol:
@cash_sog


Vexer

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Quote from: "cash"
so be it!!!!!!!!
while i grind and work my way up! keep pondering and coming up with more intuitive and hypothetical ideas!!!!!

reality is, the best way forward is the simplest way forward! the more complicated u make things, the slower your progress!!!!

u already know what im about, and u LOVE IT NIGGA!!!!!!!! im bringin HEART to the game!!!!!! Courage Ambition Strenght and Hustle!!!!!! thats me!!!!!!!!!!! thats what i represent!CASH!!!!!! if u dont represent that! COOL!!! iv looked way deep into my soul and realised that only God can judge ME"ahem - tupac", and he dont look at things the way u do! trust me! he dont care about your ideals! he sees what it is! the way it is! people have perceptions. like U, like ME!!!! but im about breakin those perceptions and bringin my reality into the peoples minds!!!!!!!!!

im bringin a whole different way of thinkin! and for those such as yourself who have extensively thought out shit! me comin and saying CHANGE YOUR WAY OF THINKIN!! its harder for u to do that! ur where i was before i changed my way of thinkin! ur still fighting with yourself!!!!!ur still in conflict with yourself!!!! still teething!!! im way beyond that!!!!

im neo in the matrix!!! matter fact iv cracked the matrix!!!!!!!! im ten neos in one!!!!

HOller at ya boy!!!!! :lol:


We're all working hard.Just bcoz I don't plot like a person from the American ghetto doesn't mean I'm just hypothetical and not advancing myself in life.

The issue for me is what kind of mentality I choose to progress with bcoz that influences the opportunities u can see and the investment decisions u make.

Don't downplay other catz and their hustle for the simple reason that they don't hustle the way u do. We all go after different things and we adopt different methods in choosing to get to where we want to get to.

Just bcoz we're not mouthing off like rappers doesn't mean we're doing nothing or that we're lagging behind.

What u're saying is based on your a**umptions about my life. You actually know nothing about my vision and the struggles I'm going through to get there.

Hope things work out for you tho'. And no, I don't know that u're nice but that's just me and I'm willing to leave it at that bcoz Hip-Hop doesn't belong to me.

Its just my 2 cents.

If u feel so touched maybe what I'm saying resonates with some part of you but u're just in denial.

I really don't know bcoz I'm not a psycho-analyst.

Only time will tell whether u really possess the knowledge and insight u seem to think u do and for me that's good enuff.

Ur individual success or failure doesn't add or subtract to my life at the end of the day. So either way I'm comfortable with whatever happens.

Peace.
I stay chiseled


TATEguru v.2K9

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Quote from: "cash"
my reality right now is - pourin vodka and hennessey, ballin outrageous, rockin hiphop, spittin  that FIRE, hollerin at foreign hoes,poppin tags, f*** cris, we was sippin on moet shootin videos in Cape Town. all my niggas is ballin!...

... i hollered at my moms(the definition of an african woman!) and she said NAW MAN! DO YOU! DONT DO THAT SOUTH AFRICAN THING!!! MUSIC IS GLOBAL!!!! WHAT U DOIN IS DIFFERENT! THATS WHY WE LOVE IT!( 99,9% the people of UMTATA!!!) WE WANA SEE AFRICA PROGRESS INTO THE FUTURE! WE TIRED OF ALL THESE KWAITO PEOPLE WHO ALL SOUND THE SAME AND HAVE NOTHING RELEVANT TO SAY!!!DO SOMETHIN THAT THE GROWN UPS CAN RESPECT! in a nutshell,she made my hustle official! she gave it merit and said run with it!!!!

thats wisdom right there! yall jus talkin bout how its supposed to be! im tellin u how it is!!!!!!!!


Sorry to be pedantic but the above post seems tosuggest that your mother was co-signing you calling women "HOES" 8O

Calling women by such deraugatory terms blongs in the Black American undercla**'s frame of reference not ours as Africans I'm sure you will agree?


Just Dee

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Quote from: "Vexer"
Cash, if that's how it is for you cool.But all I ask u to consider is a couple of things.

Firstly, who defined "balling" for you?In-fact who even brought that word into your vocabulary and frame of reference?

Also who taught u to a**ociate the word with sipping moet, foreign "hos" etc?

Its not about u staying broke or acting like u're broke but its also a question of how u perceive the notion of success. Your perception of the notion of success seems influenced by rap lyrics.

Its different for instance from what the middle or capitalist cla**' perception of what success is.

Who taught u to interpret success in that way, and also to celebrate and articulate it in that manner?

Do u think that's a universal notion of success that u hold or rather it reflects the views of the black american undercla**?

Is that view of success appropriate in the African context?Does it do anything to advance our hustling in our own individual context as Africans?

For instance why aren't you talking about BEE schemes, stocks, shares, mutual funds and bonds?Isn't this what we really need to learn about in order to be successful?

Your frame of reference seems to have been limited by rap lyrics and u don't really pause to consider how the objects of your frame of reference i.e. moet and "hos" are relevant in our context and what purpose they actually achieve.

That's how deeply embedded in your consciousness the black american undercla** frame of reference has become. To the extent that it comes out from deep within you as a mental reflex.

Just pause to consider this if u will.I think a lot of headz r still in that very same headspace.

About going international, I don't think going international depends on how well u can soak ur music with an American/Foreign frame of reference.

For instance, Oliver Mtukudzi, Baba Maal, Yousou Ndoor (excuse my spelling), Salif Keita, Franco Luambo to name just a few made it big internationally by sticking to their own frame of reference.

Artists like Bob Marley, Fela Kuti, Harry Belafonte, Miriam Makeba, Lucky Dube etc who communicated in English were still succesful bcoz they used the English language to depict their unique frame of reference.

They didn't portray anything else other than their situations as individuals and as a people. They didn't adopt a foreign frame of reference in order to garner success.

So I believe u can make it internationally even if u flow in English but ultimately ur stories must depict where u're from in the unique vernacular of the English language that exists in ur own area e.g. the Nigerian slang used by Fela or the Jamaican slang used by Bob Marley.

I honestly think if u try and come across like an NY cat to real NY catz u'll come across as a joke. At the end of the day we don't really understand the nuances of their culture just like they don't understand ours.

Listening to Hip-Hop CDs doesn't really allow u to live vicariously thru the situations the rappers r talking about. U can learn how its like for them over there, but U can never fully understand how it is bcoz u really don't walk in their shoes.

The whole world wants to know how its like to walk in ur shoes and we want to hear u say it in ur own unique way.This is what I believe makes a great artist.

Pac used to weep in ebonics and Biggie used to be ruthless & unflinching in the same vernac.That's what made them so dope.

When its all said and done, I wish u luck in ur career, and I don't want to come across as a prophet of doom bcoz at the end of the day we're dealing with art which is subjective.


Vexer "STOP IT NOW..." you are making too much sense you might hurt someone...


Beaker

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Quote from: "Sensai_Tate"
Calling women by such derogatory terms blongs in the Black American undercla**'s frame of reference not ours as Africans I'm sure you will agree?


SOMEBODY GIVE THIS MAN A MEDAL!!! and vexer too while they at it ...


TATEguru v.2K9

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Quote from: "Beaker"
Quote from: "Sensai_Tate"
Calling women by such derogatory terms blongs in the Black American undercla**'s frame of reference not ours as Africans I'm sure you will agree?


SOMEBODY GIVE THIS MAN A MEDAL!!! and vexer too while they at it ...

Who ME?..Err I wasn't really wasnt expecting it...I dont even have an acceptance speech...Errr I'd like to thank my moms...

Seriously though people need to check themselves & do some introspect.


DRAMA BOY

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We're all working hard.Just bcoz I don't plot like a person from the American ghetto doesn't mean I'm just hypothetical and not advancing myself in life.

The issue for me is what kind of mentality I choose to progress with bcoz that influences the opportunities u can see and the investment decisions u make.

Don't downplay other catz and their hustle for the simple reason that they don't hustle the way u do. We all go after different things and we adopt different methods in choosing to get to where we want to get to.

Just bcoz we're not mouthing off like rappers doesn't mean we're doing nothing or that we're lagging behind.

What u're saying is based on your a**umptions about my life. You actually know nothing about my vision and the struggles I'm going through to get there.

Hope things work out for you tho'. And no, I don't know that u're nice but that's just me and I'm willing to leave it at that bcoz Hip-Hop doesn't belong to me.

Its just my 2 cents.

If u feel so touched maybe what I'm saying resonates with some part of you but u're just in denial.

I really don't know bcoz I'm not a psycho-analyst.

Only time will tell whether u really possess the knowledge and insight u seem to think u do and for me that's good enuff.

Ur individual success or failure doesn't add or subtract to my life at the end of the day. So either way I'm comfortable with whatever happens.

Peace.[/quote]NIGGA IF U  PUT THIS MUCH Pa**ION IN YO WORK... U CUD BE THE HOT.......
CRACK BOY WANNA BE...


SolitaryNative

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Damn and I thought we were just reviving old threads today.  Respect to all active minds...


Vexer

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Quote from: "Beaker"
Quote from: "Sensai_Tate"
Calling women by such derogatory terms blongs in the Black American undercla**'s frame of reference not ours as Africans I'm sure you will agree?


SOMEBODY GIVE THIS MAN A MEDAL!!! and vexer too while they at it ...


Thanks Beak.  :D  :D  :D :D
I stay chiseled


Msanii_XL

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Vexer....Very well put. It can't be said any better.
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