Commecial AND Underground

[The KWEDZA HOD]

Alot of emcees have different opinions on this and now i would like to hear what producers have to say about it. What the difference between cmmecial hip hop and underground hip hop? And how do beats influence these two categories?

[Bondizzo]

Commercial Music is mainstream and more ppl are exposed to it
Underground music is music that hasn't become mainstream yet

[The KWEDZA HOD]

so how would you say beats influence this??

[Bondizzo]

so how would you say beats influence this??

theres nothing more to say. Common is considered commerical now cause he's mainstream. You still have ppl making club music  and are underground e.g. Soulja Boy use to be underground but still had those same corny songs

[Omero's Daddy]

I think there is a slight difference between commercial and mainstream music. I think you can have mainstream success without being commercial.

I think Commercial music is music that is tailor made, or created to be successful. It's more generic, because it is made to fulfill a certain purpose by making use of formula's and incorporating current trends. Its heavily reliant on profit above anything else. Thats why you hardly find any original commercial music.

I think underground music is a vehicle for artists to express themselves freely, without formula's or conforming to particular trends. It has an overall "anti-commercial" connotation to it. It's ironic that A lot of content in underground music is based on commercial music. i.e. how fake it is, how real underground acts are etc. Almost to the point where u wonder what Underground acts would be rapping about, if commercial music didn't exist.

Personally i prefer Underground music, because it's more creative and you get to find a lot more original music. Unfortunately, a lot of acts use the underground thing as an excuse to put out mediocre music.

[Omero's Daddy]

In terms of beats.. i think Underground tends to embrace a more authentic or traditional sound above anything else.

Commercial beats are more consumer based, so their usually more reflective of "whats in" or trendy at a given time. Usually more designed for the club.

Ever try dance to company flow? Doesn't quite work out 

[The KWEDZA HOD]

Ait. Thanx nyambz i get you.

Its quite funny how we all argue about this topic but always come to the conclusion that underground is the way to go.

[TATEguru v.2K9]

This topic has been discussed ad nauseaum

In my opinon Underground & Commercial are not musical aesthetic cla**ifications (genres).

I agree with BLondizzo () you are underground until you achieve commercial success.

[cash]

being underground is a phase u go through towards your growth to commercial success.

unfortunately most fail or delay the growth process and become old and bitter.then they create this false belief that the two terms are in conflict(ie. underground vs commercial).

then the misinformed like "the rebbi" then start discussions like this over and over again!trying to justify their lack of growth as they have been stagnant for so long they develop this love/acceptance with the fact that they will forever remain underground failures.

eventually they take PRIDE in this underground state and resist the transition into commercial.they BELEIVE that commercial is EVIL and underground is GOOD! LOL.

Childish and Laughable really!

ps. i agree with what Nyambs is sayin, when ur underground u are in a developmental stage(u have room to experiment and be more creative as far as FINDING URSELF), you then AFTER FINDING URSELF, stick to WHAT WORKS FOR YOU AND THE Ma**ES and make it PROFITABLE!(there is less room for chopping and changing once you have gone COMMERCIAL, but you can always re-invent what works for you)

its very sad tho that some cats remain in the FINDING THEMSELVES stages,way into their 30's as we are experiencing here on AG. Africas Gramps'way

[The KWEDZA HOD]

LOL. I get what you saying (CASH), i just wanted to really find out what word is about this topic, because as you can see a lot of people are mis informed about it and im glad i could atleast make an effort to find out what exactly is ment. True i am in my developing ages and i do enjoy the underground. LOL. We all have to start from somewhere.

[TATEguru v.2K9]

I disagree with the notion that remaining out of the mainstream is some sort of failure.

Commercial rotation is not the only criteria for defining success.

Many artists achieve their best work that never recieves mainstream attention for factors other than music quality.
e.g. Blu & Exile never get airplay on commercial radio yet we hailed their album as a "triumph" last year argueably the best album of the year.

ASIDE: Remember that Selwyn & PROkid track "Debate"? It was a take on this age-old discussion.
Now playing on the HIPHOCALYPSE Fort-Knights Podcast Episode 9:
http://hiphocalypse.mypodcast.com/2008/02/2008_Episode_09_Bak_2_Basiks-77651.html
 

[The KWEDZA HOD]

there is a lot of arguement about it but i wouldn't say the underground is a place for those who are unsuccesful, it can be said to be a learning place but not all people want to go commecial. It caters for those who enjoy the music and don't wish to take it that far, and yet at the same time caters for those who are in the learning section.

[TATEguru v.2K9]

It caters for those who enjoy the music and don't wish to take it that far, and yet at the same time caters for those who are in the learning section.

I disagree with these 2 statements.

Just coz an artist is not garnering commeRcial success doesnt mean they are not taking their music far. Artists like Madlib and  Pharoahe Monch have pushed musical boundaries all their careers and grown the entire genre of hip hop without ever really being launched into the mainstream.

[cash]

the underground is definitely not a place for failures.....its a haven for failures.
what i mean is,we all start in the underground,learn the ropes,and move on to the next level where only the strong survive. where u are a**essed on ur last HIT! there is pressure!

Those who fail to move on and take on the PRESSURE will often use the underground as their EXCUSE.

Blu and Exile need to graduate to commercial success or you wont see follow up albums,the group will split,the money will dry up.etc. unless they graduate. The dude is a talented rapper.....but so is mf doom,necro,papoose,masta ace,zubz,tumi,punch n words....but where are they realisically, if you a**essed them? their still exactly where they started. underground.

if u based ur a**essment in SA HIPHOP on PROGRESS as far as FINANCIALLY,COMMERCIALLY,ACCLAIM(AWARDS),BUSINESS VENTURES,ACTING,etc. we are still underground.

we have not taken the NEXT STEP yet.
Thats what underground and commercial is.
just stages u have to go through on the path to success.
it goes like this underground<commercial (the real equation)
but to most AG heads, it goes like this underground=underground.
which leads to this underground=only choice,commercial=n/a

hiphop with no freedom to grow!
all new ideas are crushed,all new genres of hiphop are UNACCEPTABLE!
Conform or be RIDICULED!
Thats why hiphop is considered to be dead by these old stubborn Nas groupie niggas.

[Omero's Daddy]

Many artists achieve their best work that never recieves mainstream attention for factors other than music quality.
e.g. Blu & Exile never get airplay on commercial radio yet we hailed their album as a "triumph" last year argueably the best album of the year.

I Definitely agree.. Its not a sign of failure to be making music outside the mainstream environment. Sometimes it doesn't matter how dope you are, you could have the best most original album in the world, with the best beats lyrics but if people are not interested in your message then what can you do? If your trying to be commercially successful or at least turn a profit with your music, You really have to find that balance and create music that appeals to people, whilst getting ur message across.

Blu and Exile dropped a dope record, but if it appeals to you and I and not my little sister and her friends my co workers etc, then thats just the way it is. Blu and Exile choose a direction and those that will follow will follow. Sometimes it's not enough being dope or talented. Being talented is a gift.. Thats why most people fail, because they think that talent alone is enough, You have to work at it. You have to shape and build that talent and  surround it with the neccesary people and tools to make it work for you.

Roger Federer is a talented Tennis player, but that homie practices and looks for ways to build his game.. Rappers for the most part are lazy, some have the talent, and with it a certain sense of expectation. They expect people to come to their shows, or buy their over priced albums just because their "dope". You gotta make it appealing to people.. I'm not saying water down your music. I'm saying you need to work to make people appreciate your music, you need to make it more accessible to people, especially if you have a message u think the world should hear... No body is going to come looking for you.. Thats why the Underground fails....