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Mugabe clings on despite election defeat

Blizzard

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[q]Zanu-PF also appears to have suffered losses in the parliamentary election with at least nine members of its politburo losing their seats, including the Vice-President, Joice Mujuru, and the defence, information and education ministers.[/q]

mujuru has apparently won with around 13000 votes, the next candidate has around 1000 votes.

[q]Beware sources like these that do not quote any specific reference.
Vague claims like "Independent monitoring groups" and "South African monitors said they believed the opposition had won but would hold off on a public statement until the official results were announced" undermine the credibility of this article.
Who are the Independant Monitoring groups making these statements?[/q]

news flash tate.the results in various constituencies were displayed at polling stations.so yes the whole country knows what's up.that was one of the conditions the opposition had proposed to mbeki.apparently they had tried to change this at the last minute so that the results would be counted at the presidential residence.the opposition leader then flew to south africa to notify mbeki of his quittin the race.mbeki had to intervene.it is most likely that the results are being manipulated.chiweshe of the zec was appointed by the president.secondly,sadc people are now of the perception don't give a damn about us.just like operation murambatsvina was never acted against by koffi annan cuz his son kojo had made billions by doing business with the ruling party (he and yamani got the contract to build the harare international airport).how can the sadc observer team declare elections 'free and fair' while noting some INCONSISTENCIES?isn't that ironic and obvious that they are protecting the ruling regime?i don't expect tate to tell this side of the story (him being a direct beneficiary of the regime).there are people right now within the party who are making billions USD.a shift in the hands of power will mean a threat to their wealth.there is a higher possibilty of zimbabwe turning to a military state than power being handed over to the mdc (whom they accuse of trying to sell the country to the west).some argue that it is being sold to the east, whose china has an abase human rights record.in the event that president mugabe retains power,there is likely to be an unprecedented level of suffering and hardship.it is the ordinary man who suffers and when the world is told about lofty programs such land reform it is an exclusive branch of the elite that largely benefit.the poorest of the poor live on the crumbs.it is now vague who the opposition is.i wonder what would have happened if sadc had folded their hands and watched as de klerk upheld apartheid in south africa. i guess this is the thanks we get.at times like this you know who your friends are.everyone is benefiting from my country somehow, that's why little is being done.i blame   sadc for our problems.if we deserve sanctions, so does sadc.not protesting against something means you agree with it.we have a sadc regime.my president's not the problem!


at last someone has saved this thread!!!!! most of the times cats talk a lot of crap in this politics section!! where can i get your music man? what you said there (bold part) is what i have been saying all along and i m glad someone else has said it!!


Taf1

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Munetsi wataura hako murume, unfortunately panapa will yevanhu might not be done at all becuase there too many heavyweights benefitting from all the chaos and suffering


TATEguru v.2K9

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news flash tate.the results in various constituencies were displayed at polling stations.so yes the whole country knows what's up.that was one of the conditions the opposition had proposed to mbeki.apparently they had tried to change this at the last minute so that the results would be counted at the presidential residence.the opposition leader then flew to south africa to notify mbeki of his quittin the race.mbeki had to intervene.it is most likely that the results are being manipulated.chiweshe of the zec was appointed by the president.secondly,people are now of the perception sadc don't give a damn about us.just like operation murambatsvina was never acted against by koffi annan cuz his son kojo had made billions by doing business with the ruling party (he and yamani got the contract to build the harare international airport).how can the sadc observer team declare elections 'free and fair' while noting some INCONSISTENCIES?isn't that oxymoronic and obvious that they are protecting the ruling regime?i don't expect tate to tell this side of the story (him being a direct beneficiary of the regime).
Apologies if I made it seem like I was defending the ruling regime. Niether I nor any of my immediate family are direct benefactors of the current ruling regime in Zimbabwe.

All I was highlighting is the vagueness of the orginating article posted. If we are going to make opinions based on articles in the media then we must always question the credibility of the source. This one failed my credibility test for reasons detailed ergo I cannot base any opinions on it.

mUnetsi appears to have a lot more information than I do being closer to the situation so I will not dismiss any of his insights. Please just share with us with your sources so we too can be enlightened.


triplelife

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6 O'clock: BBC news.
They have just reported that Bob and MDC are in negotiations for Bob to step down. It is evident that Bob has been defeated and that he would like to negotiate an exit strategy. They report that its not guaranteed that he (Bob) will step down but the talks are happening..... ::)
Him be nice like reco price/catch a overhand right like I'm Kimbo Slice...

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TATEguru v.2K9

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6 O'clock: BBC news.
They have just reported that Bob and MDC are in negotiations for Bob to step down. It is evident that Bob has been defeated and that he would like to negotiate an exit strategy. They report that its not guaranteed that he (Bob) will step down but the talks are happening..... ::)
Interesting development. Where did the BBC get their info from since they are not allowed in the country to report? Al Jahzerrah (sp) does not confirm the report.

Just trying to be sure it is not another vague media account with no real sources.


A pimp named Sarkozy

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[q]Zanu-PF also appears to have suffered losses in the parliamentary election with at least nine members of its politburo losing their seats, including the Vice-President, Joice Mujuru, and the defence, information and education ministers.[/q]

I wonder what would have happened if sadc had folded their hands and watched as de klerk upheld apartheid in south africa. i guess this is the thanks we get.at times like this you know who your friends are.everyone is benefiting from my country somehow, that's why little is being done.i blame   sadc for our problems.if we deserve sanctions, so does sadc.not protesting against something means you agree with it.we have a sadc regime.my president's not the problem!mdc is not likely to take the issue to the courts given that they went into these elections with a case of vote riggin (2002) against the president pending.i just hope south africa is not going the same one party route.there are similarities between ANC and ZANU in its early stages.



I stand corrected


Zimbabweans they thought SA would be on fire by now, thats not going to happen, not in our lifetime, not with all the lessons we drew from around the continent and the world. Unlike you, we're not obssessed with 'colonial masters' and the symbols they left in our country, those sysmbols have signatures of South Africans who gave of their labour, their time and their lives, because of that and logical reason we won't destroy them. You're obssessed with destroying anything and everything that represent your colonial master but cross borders to sell your souls to them, you follow your colonial masters to England to serve them, isn't that a double standard?. I salute your peers who remained in Zimbabwe.

I DONT THINK ANC would ever be compared to Zanu pf you can at least compare it to the PAC. In the eighties it was the zimbabweans accusing south africans for sitting back, necklacing each other, singing a few freedoms songs, did some toyi-toying while waiting their turn in the back of a truck to be banished to the "bantustans"; and so it seemed.

Zimbabweans wondered loudly why south africans would not take arms and fight a "real" guerilla war agains minority rule as zimbabweans had done in the 70's.

To give you another historical percepective, it has been stated that the reason mugabe's party found the PAC as a natural ally was that organization's militancy and willingness to confront the apartheid regime at it's foundation- it's military.





TATEguru v.2K9

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Zimbabweans they thought SA would be on fire by now, thats not going to happen, not in our lifetime, not with all the lessons we drew from around the continent and the world. Unlike you, we're not obssessed with 'colonial masters' and the symbols they left in our country, those sysmbols have signatures of South Africans who gave of their labour, their time and their lives, because of that and logical reason we won't destroy them. You're obssessed with destroying anything and everything that represent your colonial master but cross borders to sell your souls to them, you follow your colonial masters to England to serve them, isn't that a double standard?. I salute your peers who remained in Zimbabwe.
Which Zimbabweans are "obssessed with 'colonial masters' and the symbols they left in our country"?

The statues of Cecil Rhodes; David Livingstone & other agents of colonialism still stand at their original sites relatively well maintained. Save some changes to city names and infrastructure (similar to the ones made in SA) the remnants of colonialism are as present in Zimbabwe as they are anywhere else in Southern Africa.

Have you ever been to Zimbabwe?

Please do not judge the attitudes of all Zimbabweans on select few statements in the media.
Do not confuse proud Zimbabwean Nationalism with blind Patriotism.


triplelife

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6 O'clock: BBC news.
They have just reported that Bob and MDC are in negotiations for Bob to step down. It is evident that Bob has been defeated and that he would like to negotiate an exit strategy. They report that its not guaranteed that he (Bob) will step down but the talks are happening..... ::)
Interesting development. Where did the BBC get their info from since they are not allowed in the country to report? Al Jahzerrah (sp) does not confirm the report.

Just trying to be sure it is not another vague media account with no real sources.
I know what you mean...but this was on bbc 6 oclock news and the reporter was claiming that he snuck into zim. Anyway, at 10 oclock they released this....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7325524.stm

You know what...f*** it, I'll just have to wait for them results to be released f*** this media shit >:(
Him be nice like reco price/catch a overhand right like I'm Kimbo Slice...

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Anthony

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Zimbabweans they thought SA would be on fire by now, thats not going to happen, not in our lifetime, not with all the lessons we drew from around the continent and the world. Unlike you, we're not obssessed with 'colonial masters' and the symbols they left in our country, those sysmbols have signatures of South Africans who gave of their labour, their time and their lives, because of that and logical reason we won't destroy them. You're obssessed with destroying anything and everything that represent your colonial master but cross borders to sell your souls to them, you follow your colonial masters to England to serve them, isn't that a double standard?. I salute your peers who remained in Zimbabwe.

I DONT THINK ANC would ever be compared to Zanu pf you can at least compare it to the PAC. In the eighties it was the zimbabweans accusing south africans for sitting back, necklacing each other, singing a few freedoms songs, did some toyi-toying while waiting their turn in the back of a truck to be banished to the "bantustans"; and so it seemed.

Zimbabweans wondered loudly why south africans would not take arms and fight a "real" guerilla war agains minority rule as zimbabweans had done in the 70's.

To give you another historical percepective, it has been stated that the reason mugabe's party found the PAC as a natural ally was that organization's militancy and willingness to confront the apartheid regime at it's foundation- it's military.

dude, i might be wrong but you seem to be making the same mistake we did with zanu.we regarded it as a party that could do no wrong since it had brought about our liberation.when we spoke of political parties we often had zanu in mind.that was our national party.power was to descend to the next zanu member.i think there's a danger when any country tends to incline towards a one party state.it's wrong to have republicans  and democrats as a majority as if there are absolutes in life and we cant be both at once,catch my drift.hey south africa has been independent for 14yrs only.we have been so for 28.our problems started at 20.it's just a matter of time.mugabe has created a spark about the land issue.that's an african issue and can never be localised because all our lands were raped and pillaged.
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blaqsouljah

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I stand corrected


Zimbabweans they thought SA would be on fire by now, thats not going to happen, not in our lifetime, not with all the lessons we drew from around the continent and the world. Unlike you, we're not obssessed with 'colonial masters' and the symbols they left in our country, those sysmbols have signatures of South Africans who gave of their labour, their time and their lives, because of that and logical reason we won't destroy them. You're obssessed with destroying anything and everything that represent your colonial master but cross borders to sell your souls to them, you follow your colonial masters to England to serve them, isn't that a double standard?. I salute your peers who remained in Zimbabwe.

I DONT THINK ANC would ever be compared to Zanu pf you can at least compare it to the PAC. In the eighties it was the zimbabweans accusing south africans for sitting back, necklacing each other, singing a few freedoms songs, did some toyi-toying while waiting their turn in the back of a truck to be banished to the "bantustans"; and so it seemed.

Zimbabweans wondered loudly why south africans would not take arms and fight a "real" guerilla war agains minority rule as zimbabweans had done in the 70's.

To give you another historical percepective, it has been stated that the reason mugabe's party found the PAC as a natural ally was that organization's militancy and willingness to confront the apartheid regime at it's foundation- it's military.





yeah rip you just spoke out of your a** on this one. i agree with munetsi, it's early days in south africa to say that we've managed to learn from the continent. i also agree with munetsi on the sadc f***-ups. i've never seen a more useless regional organisation than sadc. the ruling party in south africa has not shown that it has learnt from the rest of the continent - or maybe it's because they've got a bunch of retards being the face of the organisation while the really decent individuals shake their heads in dismay. liberation movements are always going to expect more in repayment that what they deserve - there is always a price to freedom.
My parents said i could be whatever i wanted, so i chose to become an a**hole


Malcom E.K.K.S

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It seems most peeps are concerned with Uncle Bob stepping down. Whoever his successor is got a lot of work in they hands, decreasing that inflation percentage in the thousands and basically restoring the economy to the bread basket it was to the region. I see Morgan selling the country to the west, what of the land issue, will he redistribute that to those who "deserve" it?.



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lil somethin i put together last weekend peace

FROM THE TOP DOWN

Today marks the dawn of Zimbabwe’s first democratic election. I say this because in the previous election there was talk of vote-rigging and fundamental indiscrepancies which led Bob Mugabe to once again take power. The outcome of  that election was a dark day for our neighbour.

Whoever emerges  the victor in today’s vote will have the weight of the world on his shoulders. Because, to say the least, Zimbabwe as a nation lacks a socio political economical infrastructure, and this has led to a ma**ive backlog in terms the basic needs of the nation as a whole. Necessities such as fuel and foodstuffs have become hard to come by. Even to the point where fuel stations have resorted to sourcing petrol from black market suppliers. And we are told that teachers are forced to travel to neighbouring towns and prostitute themselves in order to feed their families. Their meagre salaries are just not enough. To what end?

An important lesson that can be learned from this fiasco is perhaps that no one leader should ever hold office for such a long period of time. Throughout postmodern African history, the notion that one is ‘president for life’ has proved disasterous every time it has been suggested. A political a**asination of sorts. By this I mean tha the power hungry dictator-type leadership traits displayed by some if not most of our current leaders cause them to expire in the eyes of their people and also, on another level, from the viewpoint of the international community. This course of action has proved fatal for many a past african leader.

 In the heydays of the old South Africa one such leader was Lennox Sebe of the Ciskei. This homeland leader was in my view our own Bob Mugabe. I say this because although the majority of the people were sufffering, Sebe was bulding airports and buying planes which were never to fly. This in turn relegated Ciskei to the status of banana republic. The same can be said of Zimbabwe. Having travelled to Harare both before and after the previous election I noticed that a huge new airport had been built on the outskirts of the city while the city itself had the appearance of a state of emergency. Basic foodstuffs were just too expensive and accommodation and transport was unaffordable. This led me to believe that things already at that point needed to change. Knowing that one’s pockets are full of millions that can not even buy a loaf of bread is a joke in itself. However it is part of the harsh reality of a sinking ship.

While I am not opposed to his policies of giving land back to its rightful owners, what I do find dubious in Mugabe`s approach is the method to his madness. Perhaps he lacks proper advisers and PR people in his entouraage, one can never be sure. But one can only feel that he has attemped to achieve too much too soon. This seems to be agimmick to merely attract voters in any case. Seeing the economy fail to the point where they had to issue emergency money and such should have proved to the country`s leadership that things were getting out of hand. And another desperate measure was the operation in which the poverty-stricken were forcibly removed from Harare’s streets in an effort to make it appear as if there was little or no poverty in the country, so that the U.N observers could note this. This lacklustre attempt to ‘cook the books’ blew up in the face of the Mugabe regime. And unfortunately it cost people their homes and, dare i say , their lives were negatively affected. The second disaster was the one in which foodstuffs in the supermarkets were given away at ridiculous prices  leading to a ‘free for all’ which in turn led to a domino effet  of there being no food available in the stores up to now. In addition to this, the silencing of critics through taking away the press freedom led me to believe that Mugabe clearly had something to hide.

So on the dawning of Zimbabwe’s liberation, one can ony hope that things will go smoothly. Already the ridiculous has happened in the form of  long-deceased white people’s names appearing on the voter’s roll. It has also come to light that the government has printed far too many ballot papers, causing people to already pre-empt the possibility of vote rigging. My personal take is that the opposition should take power and lead the country into a new era of nation building. If they fail to take power through democratic means, then another route must be found to depose the ageing despot. Uhuru
when friends are dark days are few


Anthony

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what I do find dubious in Mugabe`s approach is the method to his madness. Perhaps he lacks proper advisers and PR people in his [entourage], one can never be sure

he has been described as having a 'very short fuse', 'except for the grace of God there goes God' (whatever that means) among other interesting phrases. ;D ;D ;D ;D.word is he don't listen to advisors sometimes.as simba makoni described it on TV during the campaigns:

not everyone in zanu is bad.you have say,35 guys.out of that 35, there are 4 who consider themselves to be above the others, whose word is final and overrides the opinions of the others...it is not easy to get raise your objections in zanu...you'll be putting your life on the line
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Taf1

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As Tsvangirai declares victory with 50.3% of the vote...

ZANU still silent

ZEC ... silent


TATEguru v.2K9

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I see Morgan selling the country to the west, what of the land issue, will he redistribute that to those who "deserve" it?.
This is the point where we must be most vigilant not only as Zimbabweans and SoutERN Africans but as a continent.

While the shortcomings of the current rulership is well debated they were brave enough to raise & begin to redress the land issue. There can be NO looking back.