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so which is the dopest Vast aire or Mf doom?

General Ratzinger van Stilzkin

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i cant stand it, whatever its called nerd/sci-fi/blunted... i cant understand it... 30 seconds of a track can induce coma.
Hustlers. We dont sleep we rest one eye up


SolitaryNative

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If the question had been do you feel Doom is overrated I would have said hell yes. In a forced comparison I would say Doom is bigger than Vast Aire but better don't know.

Vast says a lot of shit but has never resorted to "Oogly Moogly" and other sorts of desperation. Is Doom as huge as he is because his name sounds dope? Just a question, possibly a stupid one.

Vast Aire is way more incisive and nine over eleven his abstractions make a lot of sense, more cutting. Doom is just way bigger (in an "industry" way I know he has lost weight).  The same way Doom has never done a Cold Vein type rearrangement of people's hip hop perspectives, Vast has never done a Money Folder or America's Most Blunted type of everybody's heard it somewhere type of track. I always get into shit for saying Madlib is lazy and unworked and that Flying Lotus shits in his face musically. More people just dig Madlib. Maybe that makes him doper? I know that is a debate unto itself. Same with MF and Vast. I'm drifting, going to make that hate record again.

The spacesaver:  Doom overrated yes, Vast not enough, Doom bigger than Vast though but does that mean doper? Maybe just to more people.

----THEY CAN BOTH TALK ENDLESS SHIT THOUGH---- (like someone else I know)

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the panic!

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people say Doom is overrated, people say Tupac is overrated.

i ask: by who? who are these 'institutions' that blow these people up to 'larger than life' form? doesn't a fan of any artist overrate them as a matter of default?

i never understood this 'overrated' thing...such a useless, nothing word.


Capt Schti

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I don't know where to start explaining the art of writting to so called writers and hiphop fans (after all this is a writer's artform).

Let's see: 
There are many ways for a writer to tell his story, take a track like "Doomsday" which is autobiographical, the same as J-Live's "A charmed life" or Biggie's "Respect". J-Live, by no means a conventional emcee, tells his story in a linear "I moved from here to there" style, whilst Doomday is more thematic, he gives "you flashes of my life", and uses episodes to tell a story.
He weaves from being locked down to plotting against the industry and a girl with a missing tooth. But ultimately the story is about his life or a period of his life after KMD and then.   

Think of "Curls" on the Madvilliany album. It's simple a story of youthful (mis)adventure, told as a coming-to-age story trying to get laid rapping, bunking school. But he jumps for one episode to the other in a jumbled up but comprehensible way. Like how the brain works.       
 
Quickly, remember the movies you watched as a kid and couldn't get because, "there is no plot. no action" and when you watch them years later you get them because you get the themes. Why?
It's because you've expanded your mental vocabulary and references.
Gained life experience.             

In the 60's European directors revolutionised film becuase they reinvented story telling, whilst Hollywood had the formula "big star, damsel is distress, hero wins at the end of the day"- fantasy (sounds like today's rap).
In Italy there was Neo-realism, shot in the streets with non-professional actors, in France questions of cla**, in the Eastern Europe communism versus the individual.
 
In order for any art-form to grow, it needs to reinvent or introduce new things into the form otherwise it's self-cannabilises itself.
I've always maintained that rap's failed to grow, because it could'nt let homosexuals, females, foreigners and even whites into its fold...               
         
Oh yes! Doom's writing is more thematic, example stuff on "King Geedorah", think "Fazers" a six-headed monster a**imilates on earth becomes a rapper, fall in love with his son's teacher, than broad idea "Okay this is my love song" or "This is my struggle song" like most rappers.
His writting is also mostly stream of consciousness, where the writer follows a thought process, one thought can lead to non-related one with the slighest thread, see,  "Never lied to ma when we said we found the moolah/ five hundred lying there on the ground/ Let's find something to eat", see how those three lines don't make quite follow on to each other but you get the thought process of moving from one point ot the other.

And therein lies his charm for me.
Overrated? no.
Highly praised? Yes.
And what's wrong with that?
What's wrong with a track being only a minute long?
If a memory of my youth reminds me of Saturday cartoons, should I not say it cause I might come across as a nerd?
Why should a storyteller start their story in the beginning?
Have three versus and three hooks?
Why should an artist follow a formula?

I can say even more but this is where I end my piece.                                       
                 
"I just want to enter my house justified" Bloody Sam


the panic!

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good explanation, though if you need to explain to someone then i doubt you'll convince them. i see how you could have gone further with it, but this is cool.


SolitaryNative

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You are talking to people who probably own most if not all of both of these people's work. It was a forced comparison to some extent the poster was being humoured. f***in relax people. Who do you say is doper? And don't take us on an excursion to define dope, just hazard an opinion.


the panic!

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whoa, a bit quick off the draw there...discussions don't always have to follow a linear pattern. there were people who asked what Cpt Schti is trying to answer.

besides, you admit so yourself that the topic is frivolous, so why don't you relax and let something come out of it?


SolitaryNative

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YOU KNOW WHAT MR PANIC? HUH....   You make a fair point. In fact, you should be a politician. Or art critic. I think I just enjoyed being told to f*** off, and am looking forward to the trip! lol.

I think the "them" part disturbed me. I have no friends on AG. There is no "them" with me :'(.  Sits back and waits for development of argument.



Capt Schti

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You are talking to people who probably own most if not all of both of these people's work. It was a forced comparison to some extent the poster was being humoured. f***in relax people. Who do you say is doper? And don't take us on an excursion to define dope, just hazard an opinion.

Are you refering to me?
I came here to say who I prefer, and then defended my choice. Exactly what this thread is about.
And you? Why did you enter?    
  
"I just want to enter my house justified" Bloody Sam


SolitaryNative

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Capt Schti

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Myth

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i dnt give a f*** about neither, but:

MF DOOM - RHYMES LIKES DIMES

is one of my favourite cuts.


thanks.... you may continue
its possible to take the art of making music seriously without taking yourself seriously

www.myspace.com/mythbeats101


SolitaryNative

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 Like, extreme fail dude.  No, no, Uber Fail even. In fact, I think I just Life Failed. Beam me up someone.

ANYWAY> Doom over Vast ito span, legacy possibly. Vast over Doom ito content, properly exciting wordplay.


Tonnes

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what kind of dance can you do on thier music?
Flexipanel...All Tings Proper


Capt Schti

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what kind of dance can you do on thier music?

The "hold the wall" 
"I just want to enter my house justified" Bloody Sam