Mos Def - Ecstatic

[watziznehmegin]

In 2005, the Canadian music scene featured a low-key feud between K'naan and k-os, one of the most prominent Canadian hip-hop artists. Following the release of the music video for the song Soobax, which was shot by K'naan and a film crew in Kenya, k-os released a track B-Boy Stance attacking K'naan : "They took cameras to Africa for pictures to rhyme / Over; Oh, yes, the great pretenders [...] Religious entertainers who want to be life savers." Though the feud never became high-profile, with K'naan expressing confusion at the attack and respect for k-os, he nonetheless responded with the mixtape Revolutionary Avocado which argued "You the all-knowing with a beer bottle / Wishing you was Plato and me Aristotle? / ...Suburban negro turned hip-hop hero / Is there a reason he really hates me, though?" — a rebuttal CBC's Matthew McKinnon called "cold-cocking the champ".

I don't think K-Os understood that K'naan was actually from East Africa..

[TATEguru v.2K9]

....it stands as distinctly different from anything - in spirit and in sound - i've (personally) heard in a post-nineties hip hop album.   

dig the Madvillainy comparison. brings it home.

^^^Based on a true story. You can feel this album on a level beyong head-nod hip hop banging. I could see this album playing in suburban cafes on a Thursday afternoon and other places not usually familiar with "hip hop" no problem.

The songs are not penned, structured, sequenced in the standard 16bar verse-hook-verse2-hook-verse3 - skit- song 2 etc for 8-20tracks template. Its hip hop but not typical.
There's even an song in Spanish which fits. FLACO!

[watziznehmegin]

I agree T8 I like the album as well!

[Dpleezy]

To echo what Panic was saying somewhere else on AG, I've got to a stage now where I'm generally bored with where hip hop is at. Even the underground artists are just regurgitating the same old same old.

I was shocked when CPT heads were writing off Mos Def after his performance at the JazzFest. I honestly can't think of any other hip hop artist (let alone such a high profile one) who is pushing the artform so far, whilst staying grounded in the essence.

It's one of the very few inspiring albums I've heard in a long time. Only Built for Cuban Linx Pt.II is nice, but it's not as good as Pt.I - the concept hasn't been developed any further, it's just more music in a similar vein. This is what so many rappers do. Same goes for Jay-Z's work - I've heard it all before.

[oints]

To echo what Panic was saying somewhere else on AG, I've got to a stage now where I'm generally bored with where hip hop is at. Even the underground artists are just regurgitating the same old same old.

I was shocked when CPT heads were writing off Mos Def after his performance at the JazzFest. I honestly can't think of any other hip hop artist (let alone such a high profile one) who is pushing the artform so far, whilst staying grounded in the essence.

It's one of the very few inspiring albums I've heard in a long time. Only Built for Cuban Linx Pt.II is nice, but it's not as good as Pt.I - the concept hasn't been developed any further, it's just more music in a similar vein. This is what so many rappers do. Same goes for Jay-Z's work - I've heard it all before.

WOW, listen to DIAMOND DISTRICT by Oddisee, Yu & XO, listen to PLANET ASIA's Pain Language, listen to LITTLE VIC's Each Dawn I die..flip, listen to BOOMBOX by RAHEEM JAMAL & RAYDAR ELLIS...maybe i should compile a list...and if all fails, just jump on mixtapes, emcees never disappoint on those...


aight, so ive been reading and momentarily refrained from commenting, but let me get this straight, youl are feeling MOS' album cos its hiphop BUT not exactly  , that its rapping BUT not cos it has the potential of being plyed in coffee shops 

if thats the case and thats a big IF cos i might have youl misconstrued then he should stop calling himself a rapper and stop "challenging rappers" to express themselves in a so called "modern way"...cos all this talk of modernising HIPHOP & RAP is what, in my opinion, is f***ing it up....

[Msanii_XL]

^^ so basically hip hop should stay stagnated? we would not have had madvillany if this was the case...and its really not about modernizing, its artist growing their mind state is not stuck where its was five years ago...which is one thing that bothered me with raekwon shit...its rehashed.

Listen i'll be the first to tell you i liked the boombox  album, but you gonna sit there and say its progression then i 'ma have to disagree its a cool album but really its similar to much of the stuff that's out. Shit is stuck, after a few spins you are like damn i have this jazzy shit before...stagnation and shit.

[watziznehmegin]

In 2005, the Canadian music scene featured a low-key feud between K'naan and k-os, one of the most prominent Canadian hip-hop artists. Following the release of the music video for the song Soobax, which was shot by K'naan and a film crew in Kenya, k-os released a track B-Boy Stance attacking K'naan : "They took cameras to Africa for pictures to rhyme / Over; Oh, yes, the great pretenders [...] Religious entertainers who want to be life savers." Though the feud never became high-profile, with K'naan expressing confusion at the attack and respect for k-os, he nonetheless responded with the mixtape Revolutionary Avocado which argued "You the all-knowing with a beer bottle / Wishing you was Plato and me Aristotle? / ...Suburban negro turned hip-hop hero / Is there a reason he really hates me, though?" — a rebuttal CBC's Matthew McKinnon called "cold-cocking the champ".

I don't think K-Os understood that K'naan was actually from East Africa..

K-os, the reigning champion of Canadian hip hop, was supposedly irked by a trip that K’naan took to Kenya to film a video for Soobax, a battle cry against the warlords who rule his homeland. For this reason, K-os made K’naan, who is Muslim, the unnamed villain of his hit song B-Boy Stance. “They took cameras to Africa for pictures to rhyme / Over; Oh, yes, the great pretenders,” K-os rapped, “Religious entertainers who want to be life savers.” Those coded lyrics, the streets suggested, ignited a private war of words between the two MCs.

Whether or not the rumour was true, K’naan felt compelled to take his side of the beef public this winter, on a blistering mixtape track titled Revolutionary Avocado: “I don’t want to have to do this / ...I’m trying to be a peaceful poet / But the warrior in me just can’t, can’t sit back,” the 28-year-old rhymer professed, before cold-cocking the champ to the mat: “You the all-knowing with a beer bottle / Wishing you was Plato and me Aristotle? / ...Suburban negro turned hip-hop hero / Is there a reason he really hates me, though?”

K’naan still wonders what set K-os off. “He made me out to be some kind of colonialist, but he didn’t take into account that [Africa] is where I’m from. That’s my people; I’m representing their struggle. So I thought he was out of line,” K’naan says now, tucking into a takeout fish dinner at a downtown Toronto park. “But he’s a great artist, great musician. I hope these things come to pa**; I don’t have any more to say about or to him.”

If K-os were targeting almost any other rap rival, B-Boy’s stance would make sense: hip hop’s roots grow from African rhythms, but the ocean between here and there widens with the release of every new album about ghetto fantasylands and cartoon violence. Countless Western MCs make their living telling lies that glorify the lawless carnage that’s only too real in places like Somalia.

that puts it in perspective I guess, now back to the mighty mos!

[Myth]

Funny ths thread sparked an interest to bump the cd. Iv had it 4 a while....

No Hay Nada Mas & Roses are lovely songs...

On 1st listen, Album is aight 4 me, i need to give it a few more spins...

Joints too short at times...i feel

[RearrangedReality]

Definitely a dope album.

[TATEguru v.2K9]

... let me get this straight, youl are feeling MOS' album cos its hiphop BUT not exactly  , that its rapping BUT not cos it has the potential of being plyed in coffee shops 

if thats the case and thats a big IF cos i might have youl misconstrued then he should stop calling himself a rapper and stop "challenging rappers" to express themselves in a so called "modern way"...cos all this talk of modernising HIPHOP & RAP is what, in my opinion, is f***ing it up....

All due respect but I have never heard any of the albums above.

What makes Mos's contribution important is because he is a high profile rapper with the potential to reach a lot further than the niche of a specialist Southern African underground hip hop community message boards.

We all love Hip Hop. We are interested in it growing to reach further to more people.
Raekwon makes a sequel to a cla**ic (maybe even cla**ic in itself) but to be honest it will appeal to only a select few number of listeners. Probably at most 1 degree of seperation from the initial core fanbase already established off the '95 cla**ic. Not much growth there.
Same can be said for Slaughterhouse, Jay-Z, Luda etc who have all made good hip hop albums this year but thats all they are. More of the same.

Mos is an accomplished (relatively) high profile musician (and actor) who is still able to make hip hop music but do it while expanding the scope. Not Black on Both Sides, not New Danger. The Ecstatic. Truely unique and refreshing.

"Flyyyy like a Dove from up above!"

[rob_one]

... let me get this straight, youl are feeling MOS' album cos its hiphop BUT not exactly  , that its rapping BUT not cos it has the potential of being plyed in coffee shops 

if thats the case and thats a big IF cos i might have youl misconstrued then he should stop calling himself a rapper and stop "challenging rappers" to express themselves in a so called "modern way"...cos all this talk of modernising HIPHOP & RAP is what, in my opinion, is f***ing it up....

All due respect but I have never heard any of the albums above.

What makes Mos's contribution important is because he is a high profile rapper with the potential to reach a lot further than the niche of a specialist Southern African underground hip hop community message boards.

We all love Hip Hop. We are interested in it growing to reach further to more people.
Raekwon makes a sequel to a cla**ic (maybe even cla**ic in itself) but to be honest it will appeal to only a select few number of listeners. Probably at most 1 degree of seperation from the initial core fanbase already established off the '95 cla**ic. Not much growth there.
Same can be said for Slaughterhouse, Jay-Z, Luda etc who have all made good hip hop albums this year but thats all they are. More of the same.

Mos is an accomplished (relatively) high profile musician (and actor) who is still able to make hip hop music but do it while expanding the scope. Not Black on Both Sides, not New Danger. The Ecstatic. Truely unique and refreshing.

"Flyyyy like a Dove from up above!"

Maybe I need to listen a few more times, but The Ecstatic didn't grab me at all. It all felt a little...well, dull. Maybe I'm too much of a beats-and-rhymes purist, and it's probably my loss, but I didn't feel it. Though I do cosign what Tate says about expanding his scope.

[oints]

... let me get this straight, youl are feeling MOS' album cos its hiphop BUT not exactly  , that its rapping BUT not cos it has the potential of being plyed in coffee shops 

if thats the case and thats a big IF cos i might have youl misconstrued then he should stop calling himself a rapper and stop "challenging rappers" to express themselves in a so called "modern way"...cos all this talk of modernising HIPHOP & RAP is what, in my opinion, is f***ing it up....

All due respect but I have never heard any of the albums above.

What makes Mos's contribution important is because he is a high profile rapper with the potential to reach a lot further than the niche of a specialist Southern African underground hip hop community message boards.

We all love Hip Hop. We are interested in it growing to reach further to more people.
Raekwon makes a sequel to a cla**ic (maybe even cla**ic in itself) but to be honest it will appeal to only a select few number of listeners. Probably at most 1 degree of seperation from the initial core fanbase already established off the '95 cla**ic. Not much growth there.
Same can be said for Slaughterhouse, Jay-Z, Luda etc who have all made good hip hop albums this year but thats all they are. More of the same.

Mos is an accomplished (relatively) high profile musician (and actor) who is still able to make hip hop music but do it while expanding the scope. Not Black on Both Sides, not New Danger. The Ecstatic. Truely unique and refreshing.

"Flyyyy like a Dove from up above!"

as far as his reach and it being extended through this album, thats surely something that can be contested, thats you a**uming he did in actual fact win with this "formula" has he really been able to find "new fans" with this new music, if so, tell me, i know it might be difficult but try to give me some factual proof...i think he lost fans instead...D Planet said something about CAPETOWN HEADS writing MOS off after he did the show over there...with that said, dont you think he is in actual fact alienating the very same people who supported his work and bought tickets to go see the show in the first place, that his so called attempt to grow hiphop is a flawed formula that gets him no acclaim but loses him loyalty  


long and short of it, i didnt feel this album, Rob says it best for me:

Maybe I need to listen a few more times, but The Ecstatic didn't grab me at all. It all felt a little...well, dull. Maybe I'm too much of a beats-and-rhymes purist, and it's probably my loss, but I didn't feel it. Though I do cosign what Tate says about expanding his scope (but in my opinion failed at the attempt  ).

^^ so basically hip hop should stay stagnated? we would not have had madvillany if this was the case...and its really not about modernizing, its artist growing their mind state is not stuck where its was five years ago...which is one thing that bothered me with raekwon shit...its rehashed.

Listen i'll be the first to tell you i liked the boombox  album, but you gonna sit there and say its progression then i 'ma have to disagree its a cool album but really its similar to much of the stuff that's out. Shit is stuck, after a few spins you are like damn i have this jazzy shit before...stagnation and shit.

nah god, im not about stagnation, that should go without saying, i made mention of the LORD QUAS album which in my opinion was a masterpiece of ingenuity, that and a lot of albums to coem out of "stones throw records"...but we should be aware of the constant in all those works...they managed to still harness the spirit of headnodding boombap music...im all about the break beat fam, im all about respecting the fundamentals and understanding that growth is entailed in respecting what they do to define the roots of a musical sound....if we forsake those, we arent doing HIPHOP anymore but something else....

i gave this album a listen a buncha times...and in all the times ive tried not to be harsh on Mos cos he taught me much with BLACK ON BOTH SIDES, that and the black star, i guess thats why i only feel AUDITORIUM on that album...the beat bangs just right, MAdlib delivers as always and MOS ACTUALLY RAPS & UNCLE RICKY KEEPS IT CONSTANT...simplicity is often the most complex thing to achieve at times, cloaking oneself in intentional ambiguity doesnt help your cause, it never does...especially if your mission is "to reach more people"...

[TATEguru v.2K9]

I suspect this debate will come down to preferences as defined by life stages. I think when I was Oint's age I most likely would have argued his side too but at this lifestage/ age I have heard so much head nod boom bap hip hop by now it is great to have a refreshingly creative alternative.

To each his own. But. Tell us which songs you DIDN'T like and why just for clarity sake.

[Dpleezy]

Oints - can you up one of the tracks you're talking about as being a masterpiece of ingenuity (or posts links where I can listen)? I must say I haven't heard most of the music that you're talking about but I'm always open to being schooled.

When I said some of the Cape Town heads were writing Mos off for his new music, I should have also pointed out that the vast majority of people were blown away. From what I have been able to gather from the media I have read, Mos' new work is getting rave reviews from the critics and is establishing himself as a major musical force, not just a rapper with a 'hot new album'.

Innovators always have a hard time because every time they release an album they are pushing the curve rather than just giving the fans what they want to hear. This takes bravery and commitment to your art.

If you are big fan of cla**ic hip hop, there's a lot of new hip hop that you're not going to like. That's just taste and everyone has their own. As much as I really like Raekwon's new shit, it doesn't personally inspire my music as much as Mos Def has done. That doesn't mean I'm going to start making music that sounds like Mos Def's, it just means i have learned a lot about what can be done with the hip hop format in terms of album concept and track structure.

[oints]

I suspect this debate will come down to preferences as defined by life stages. I think when I was Oint's age I most likely would have argued his side too but at this lifestage/ age I have heard so much head nod boom bap hip hop by now it is great to have a refreshingly creative alternative.

To each his own. But. Tell us which songs you DIDN'T like and why just for clarity sake.

first of all Tate, everything in life is determined by preferences and the preferences themselves are dictated by a wide array of other variables, you dont want to single out one without conducting a survey of somesort, lets be factual if we are going to argue facts...i dont think youd want to a**ume that "maturity and so called "life stages" allow and inhibit one to relate with this album....i diint like it, and it has nothing to do with how old i am

while we are still on that topic, you dont know how old i am fam, you dont know when i started listening to music and what my foundation in this music and culture is like. to be frank, thats quite presumptuous of you to think that there is a fortified line of progression that sees us all transcending   from "headnoddin" music which if one reads between the lines implies there is still a level of intellectual maturity one has to attain before moving on and appreciating Mos' "coffee shop sound"   . we dont all move in that direction, ive been listening for a while, trust me and im comfortable in my state of progression...

and as far as telling you which songs i didnt like, i told youl already, I ONLY LISTEN TO AUDITORIUM...and as far as the WHY, i dont think im ready to get into that, it will just lead to me typing away here and make this more about one man's opinion since at this juncture im the only one...