Get Dropox | Luno Bitcoin | Ovex Crypto | Binance | Get Free Crypto - Morpher
Africasgateway.com

wat happened Progressive HIPHOP?

Naturelle

  • AG Moderator
  • AG Veteran
  • *****
    • Posts: 2520
    • REP: +11/-21
  • rise.
    • View Profile
    • Butan Wear
Of course we gotta pay bills and entertain the ma**es
But it doesn´t mean in so doing we gotta feed em profanity
and regressive ideals.
Yes I wanna hear a song that makes me laugh, dance, feel good
It doesn´t have to be a life skills cla** in musical format, It doesn´t have to be serious.....
But it should also give me points to ponder.
make me question my world, make me grow, make me wanna do sumin about whatever situation i find myself in.
One.
below is an interesting article.

By stephanie mwandishi gadlin


Famed Kenyan author Mgugi wa Thiongo once remarked: "...Language
carries culture and culture carries, particularly through orature and
literature, the entire body of values by which we perceive ourselves
and our place in the world."

Interesting perspective. If language carries a people s culture and
therefore projects a people s cultural values to others, explain to me
why are we allowing our young men and women in the recording industry
to use offensive, self-deprecating language disguised as song lyrics
to discredit an entire people . Surely, the ancestors are not proud.

Enough with the excuses already. I love hip hop as much as the next
woman, and my frustration is not another case of "playa hating," or
"blaming rappers for society s social ills." That argument is tired
and quite silly. Nor am I confused about parental responsibility.
Yeah, I know...if you don t like it, don t buy it.
Blah...blah...blah. That is not this discussion. I simply want to
know how long will we make excuses for entertainers of any kind who
work hand-and-foot with compounded social ills to emasculate a group
of people.

Case in point: Dr Dre (Andre Young) was recently referred to as "the
original, true-blue gangsta-rap god," by Talk Magazine (April 2001).
Writer Michael Daly offers a quote from Dre s boss, Interscope Records
cofounder Jimmy Iovine: "Not since the Beatles or the Rolling stones
has any one individual artist affected society or popular music more
than Dr. Dre." His boss then goes on to say: "...he impacts the
entire continent."

Wow, that s a lot of responsibility for a record producer. Young, at
age 36, has ama**ed about a $100 million fortune writing and producing
hip hop music under the genre of gangster rap-a genre he is often
credited with creating. His latest invention, Eminem, is now being
promoted as the conduit for white rage. He offers musical missives
about killing his wife, deranged fans and doing peculiar things to
homosexuals.

No one argues that Young creates the coldest beats known to man.
Brother surely has talent. The ba** hook in Xxplosive on his The
Chronic 2001 album, was so off the hook, R&B songstress Erykah Badu
used it to rocket Bag Lady to the top of the charts. While Badu s
tome expressed the plight of a impoverished woman, Dre s lyrical
contribution to that mesmerizing beat included rapper Kurupt s poetic
utterings:

"West coast ish nigga over dosage - imperial pistols ferocious f**k a
b!tch; don t tease b!tch, strip tease b!tch Eat a bowl of these b!tch,
gobble the d!ck Hoes forgot to eat a d!ck can shut the f**k up!
Gobble and swallow a nut up, shut up and get my cash Backhanded, pimp
slapped backwards and left stranded Just pop ya collar, pimp
convention hoes for a dollar Six-Deuce in a plush, six-deuce impala
Pimpin hoes from Texas to Guatemala b!tch niggaz paid for hoes, just
to lay wit hoes Relax one night, and paid to stay wit hoes Captain
Save Em all day (b!tch) well save this d!ck b!tch nigga, you more of
a b!tch than a b!tch You ain t into hittin pu$$y, or hittin the switch
You into hittin b!tches off of the grip, you punk b!tch"

When Talk Magazine asks the super producer the usual question about
his lyrical content, inquiring about the proposed views of a late
civil rights icon about the quality of his music, Dre responds:
"Martin Luther King would love this." Is that right?

In another celebration of black musical success, wonder-lyricist Sean
"Jay Z" Carter often writes and performs head-banging missives that
have made him a wealthy and sought after celebrity. Take just one
verse from the hit song, "Big Pimpin."

"You know I - thug em, f**k em, love em, leave em Cause I don t f**kin
need em Take em out the hood, keep em lookin good But I don t f**kin
feed em First time they fuss I m breezin Talkin bout, "What s the
reasons?" I m a pimp in every sense of the word, b!tch Better trust
than believe em In the cut where I keep em til I need a nut, til I
need to beat the guts Then it s, beep beep and I m pickin em up Let em
play with the d!ck in the truck Many chicks wanna put Jigga fist in
cuffs Divorce him and split his bucks Just because you got good head,
I ma break bread so you can be livin it up? ish I.. parts with
nothin, y all be frontin Me give my heart to a woman? Not for nothin,
never happen I ll be forever mackin Heart cold as a**a**ins, I got no
pa**ion I got no patience And I hate waitin.. Hoe get yo a** in And
let s RI-I-I-I-I-IDE..."

What kind of women has he been exposed to and just whom is he talking
about? A white woman? Asian? Latino? Oh, I forgot, that s not
allowed. In the spirit of unity, let us not forget the sisters.

Lil Kim (Kimberly Jones) offers the following thought-provoking
observation in "She Don t Love You," from her Notorious K.I. M.
release:
"Is she drop-dead fine? Does she like it from behind? Is
she fly? Do she got a style like mine? Does she slurp it, rub it,
jerk it, ride it? Tell you how you feel when you inside it You love
me, and I know she know Cuz everytime I come around, she be like
"let s go" Girls know not to leave they man around me I get my hands
on em. He puttin rent and a Benz on me..."

Charli Baltimore offers another view in "Pimp the One You Love," on
her Cold as Ice release: "Off the hyped bit, always been the tight
b!tch Keep these cats in line, pay that rent on time And we ll talk
about extra keys to my spot When it s extra V s in my lot, extra G s
in my knots So how I managed to get damaged on chill with one nigga
ish I was to break me off with some more figures b!tch I don t know,
just caught me at the right moment Vulnerable, nigga jumped up on it
With mind games, took me out of my frame I ain t even want his
payback, my homey Tony Drapper He pimped for the guts and I was givin
em up Can t tell me I can t have any player I want And I burnt myself
out tryin to turn his a** out..."

I am sure fans of all four aforementioned artists will dismiss my
ramblings and random recitation of their song lyrics as being taken
out of context. Others might go as far as to tell me that these
artists are merely "storytellers," much like a Eric Jerome d!ckey,
Terri McMillian or Omar Tyree. And please, don t get me wrong about
diversity in the culture either. I understand all rappers can t be
Lauryn Hill, Mos Def, Common, or a member of Dead Prez. I also know
that new artists are more likely to follow the more controversial hip
hop icons than buck them. The more shocking, the more vile, the more
graphic, the more violent, the more sexist... the more money, the
more sales... the more bling, bling..... Right or wrong?

Yet, I refuse to believe that our young people willfully set out to
create songs to ridicule and embarra** their heritage, family and
community. I refuse to believe that Jay-Z sat down with a pen and
paper and wrote those lyrics on his own, and that those are his
beliefs. Nor will I ever believe that Lil Kim wants sex without love,
commitment and intimacy. I do not believe Dr. Dre hates his wife and
children or wants to murder or die in a hail of bullets. I refuse to
believe that many of our young brothers and sisters in the
entertainment industry have little integrity, self-esteem and love.

The more I think I about it, I am convinced there must be a hip hop
constitution that mandates how rappers represent musically. The
mandate, in the form of a recording contract, is actually a set of
commandments authored by the "music establishment," otherwise known as
the "industry," to ensure the artist s marketability in an already
saturated genre.


briCK

  • Gold digger bait!
  • AG Moderator
  • AG Veteran
  • *****
    • Posts: 6314
    • REP: +9/-10
    • Gender:Male
  • No!!!!! Hoe!
    • View Profile
intresting read..

progressive Hip Hop a**umes there is such a thing as regressive Hip Hop...

let me not loose you i speak in circles...i belive that regression is prgressive depending on the effect a song has on you i have in the past heard really really regressive material ..all it did was insipre me to find and appreciate porgrssive material and forever banish that regressive drivel from my CD player.

Any platorm for communication is like a fire...it takes one spark to create a raging inferno..Hip Hop can in this same light be compared to this analogy..it was a controlled flame..but fire has a way of having a life of its own...more fires that have nothing to do with the original flame sprout all over, so what happened to progressive Hip Hop? it has been internalized and if you Nat have internalized progressive Hip Hop its your responsibility to spark another flame to keep the fire burnimg....or something like that...

To my knowledge the progressive material is in abundace...but you need to efine progrssion....if my idea of progression is chaos well we have a problem dont we...eiter way hip hop music builds, weather it builds what individuals wanna see built is something else...i for one have enought prgressive hip hop to last me a lifetime...


i hope i was not a dicc about answering your question

briCK

halla
8-)
Trapped In The 90ies Nigga.


Dpleezy

  • Run Tings
  • AG O.G.
  • *
    • Posts: 6814
    • REP: +26/-56
    • Gender:Male
    • View Profile
    • Pioneer Unit Records
yeah,,, nice article. This argument has raged on for as long as i can remember.

My dilemma is that I just don´t feel the beats and energy of much so-called ´progressive´ hip hop. Unfortunately this means that I often have to ignore the lyrical content of music I like. The same goes for Ragga,,, it´s filled with violence, sexism and hate speech against homosexuals,,, but what can I do?,,, i love the beats and delivery. There are some notable exceptions (anything by KRS1, Hip Hop by Dead Prez come to mind) but on the whole ´progressive´ hip hop bores me.

People seem to think it´s enough just to talk about social upliftment. This just isn´t the case. You have to say something meaningful, something that resonates and touches me,,, you have to say it with pa**ion over music with energy. So much progressive hip hop is just ´clever´ wordplay and meaningless protest over soft, oldskool beats, which serves as nothing more than preaching to the converted. There is no raw energy.

I´m hoping that I will get bombarded with a list of tracks that will prove me wrong but I fear I will get a list of the usual suspects favoured by liberal uni kids.

Peace_

On a more positive note, i have been bumping http://africanz.net/crates/index.php?s=973208e17220a07657c8c83a0b786569&act=Attach&type=post&id=289" TARGET="_blank">this J-Bux track all morning. nice shit =)


briCK

  • Gold digger bait!
  • AG Moderator
  • AG Veteran
  • *****
    • Posts: 6314
    • REP: +9/-10
    • Gender:Male
  • No!!!!! Hoe!
    • View Profile
True...i agree..

Ironically..the most progressive Hip Hop for me occurs when i am chilling with other heads and they speak on they experince..you know..the music to me is really secondary..coz i dont belive more than half these rappers...i cant see how an MC talking about "Be Good and Stay in School" can really help me in anyway...especially if the beat sux and his skill level is severly lacking...interaction with other heads i feel is the constant progresive Hip Hop I know..

Nat i did not miss the point of the post but it was an inevitable diviation coz i know thats not the point of the post but it was bound to happen



[Rise] Maybe I´m too honest..nah it cant be that...just coz you rap concious dont mean you cant be wack [/Rise]


Trapped In The 90ies Nigga.


Naturelle

  • AG Moderator
  • AG Veteran
  • *****
    • Posts: 2520
    • REP: +11/-21
  • rise.
    • View Profile
    • Butan Wear
I agree with both ur posts.
BUT i refuse to accept y´all labeling positive ish as all boring there are exceptions:Mos Def, talib, Common,Immortal....juts a few  examples.

I´m not saying it has to be goody goody and gud enuf to listen to with ur parents, M saying, artists shud look at what they can do  to spread influencial positive messages about real things and things that matter.

BriCK i love it wen you get all sensitive and ish.  I can take criticism and i don´t expect everyone to agree with everything i say. LOL. ;-)


blaqsouljah

  • AG Elite Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1161
    • REP: +3/-0
    • View Profile
to the sista who started the thread, much love and respect.

i have to an extent agree with what brick is saying and don´t get me wrong some of the content does leave a bitter taste in the mouths of others. i believe it was mos def who said to differentiate between the so-called progressive hip hop, that some people refer to as being conscious, and the regressive form of the art that is delivered in droves by the likes of jay-z and his fellow pimped-out, hardknock life-reard mc´s would be like implying that there are two types of black men. in a world where one nigga is no different from another nigga, why then would we presume to split hip hop into two entities - where one is deemed to be educational and socially aware and the other to be detrimental to the progession of our society. mos def does not believe in there being a division in the form and he further states that it would not do hip hop any favours to only have the likes of himself, black thought, common and kweli on television rotation.

this i believe is the way to go with regards to the way we view hip hop. we will not all relate to life´s circumstances in a similar fashion and our experiences with certain exponents and proponants of society will vary just as much we are different. we must celebrate our differences and tolerate each other´s views. we might not all agree with the contemporary definition of what a woman is but we have not walked a mile in the shoes of the person who ascribes to this definition. * this sermon was brought to you by the child of the lost God*.lol  ;-)

child of the lost God


[ This message was edited by: blaqsouljah on 20-09-2004 16:25 ]
My parents said i could be whatever i wanted, so i chose to become an a**hole


briCK

  • Gold digger bait!
  • AG Moderator
  • AG Veteran
  • *****
    • Posts: 6314
    • REP: +9/-10
    • Gender:Male
  • No!!!!! Hoe!
    • View Profile
word...

If you listen to the track hip Hop by Mos Def..i do belive he broke it down in a nut shell...actually as a matter of the entire black on both ides and blackstar album..

Nat  :-]
Trapped In The 90ies Nigga.


Dpleezy

  • Run Tings
  • AG O.G.
  • *
    • Posts: 6814
    • REP: +26/-56
    • Gender:Male
    • View Profile
    • Pioneer Unit Records
Naturelle,,,

I don´t know if agree that all artists should look at what they can do to spread influencial positive messages about real things and things that matter. Music should reflect whatever is going on in the artist´s life. If ´playas´ want to talk about their cars and jewels, i don´t mind if they do it in an entertaining way. Bottom line for me is that I have to feel the vibe,,, Common, Talib, Mos Def etc just leave me cold, even if I prefer what they are saying. I just find it boring.

I was sitting in a bar the other day watching everyone getting down to a Capleton track,,, I had to wonder how many people in there realised he was talking about shooting homosexuals. When you think about it, it´s pretty f***ed up,,, but what can you do?,,, Capleton´s music is banging. I don´t want to listen to boring music just to be politically correct. Everyone has a right to express whatever they want,,, that´s the great thing about democracy. Ultimately the record-buying public decides what´s acceptable or not.



MaddStone

  • AG Veteran
  • *****
    • Posts: 3374
    • REP: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.facultyofhiphop.org.za
Whoa, this is truly a touchy subject.

I think ultimately it comes down to tastes.I mean, I know lots of peeps who just wanna listen to mindless drivel cause the beats r nice and the flow is cool.Even if the lyrics suck, they dont care, no matter how much I wanna object and explain bout how bad a song is (to my liking), its those, the buying public that have been ´brainwashed´ into that state of mind.I cant blame them, the system enjoys the brain-drain........or like dead prez & Ras Ka** calls them, The Plantation.It boils down to the current state of affairs too.

Its almost like the gospel is being mirrored in the music at the mo where it will seem like the bad is victorious over the good, but dont lose faith as the truth and righteous will rise ultimately.(loose translation).Sorry to get so gospellic, it just dawned on me now how that mirror image is hectic.

So basically, I´ve tried in my little way to help my peeps see my point of view and in certain instances it worked as they have more respect for what I like to call true hip hop, but they ultimately fiend for the radio-bangers which r shoved down our throats so to speak (Tipsy is a good example......hot beat, wasted lyrics......but hit #2 on Billboard.......final verdict-Buying public like it).Its like its glory to the ´wack´ in this day and age.Not hating, maybe a little harsh on the ´wackness´, but couldnt think of anything else to use in its place.

I must admit, lot of radio-bangers I enjoy myself.I cant listen to one type of style all the time, as it helps to see whats out there otherwise we end up living in a cocoon, shut off from the rest of the functioning world.But ultimately I get put off by the rhymes as they dont have any food for thought.Sometimes the deliveries r tight and the contruction is cool, but the lyrics not appealing.Sometimes its also good to just say "forget it, I just wanna enjoy myself" and then u just let it be.

Jerry´s final thought: listen to what u feel comfy with and enjoy.Let the next woman/man be and keep doing what u doing cause u feel its filling u from the mental aspect.If peeps wanna listen in, then its all for the better, we can only try and inform and educate.Denouncing would be judgmental......and I´ve been guilty of that myself sometimes.But I think I´ve turned a new leaf and am tolerable of most things now.I may not agree with what u like, but I wont slam u.Just try and turn u onto what makes me tick.

Just my (sometimes) conflicting thought pattern.2cents and all.Much luv peeps.Resolving this topic is probably never going to happen, but its good to discuss it in this open forum, with tact and respect towards different viewpoints.Much luv.
Don't Hate, Rather Debate" - Mykh-ill Angel-oH

“I’m not a star, and I don’t want to be a star. Stars fall. I’m an entertainer, a performer" - Bernie Mac


SOYA DADDY

  • BIG SPACE
  • AG Elite Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1231
    • REP: +4/-3
    • Gender:Male
  • www.myspace.com/spacevein
    • View Profile
    • Official BiG Space Music page
blah,blah.."lets save Hip hop"..blah..krap.."im so pure in thought and knowledgable in hip hop, even though i started listening to rap only when snoop came out"..."then i became all smart when i heard kweli"...let hip hop be hip hop..be it vulgar or political, theyre both aspects of it, and if you feel that the one aspect of it is wack, then you have no knowledge of the context that hip hop emerged from..so either you like hip hop for what it is or you hate it..choose now and stop trying to sound smart on the net.

mark a** tricks.

http://WWW.SPACESWAGGER.BLOGSPOT.COM
[IMG]http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd205/metalhead_xox/Animate


iLL_eG0_AL13n

  • AG Extremist
  • *****
    • Posts: 962
    • REP: +0/-0
    • View Profile

taste is a terrible thing to dispute... Let alone not a very "progressing" thing to do, i myself as a matter of fact have quickly lost count of the number of times peeps´ve suggested me a cat-scan for diggin me some of that Rock shit, as long as ppl´ll find all types of different things in different types of music or in this instance within one genre, ppl´ll look for different things (Some´ll look for stuff that talk to their soul, some´ll look for things they can somehow relate to, some´ll be on the look out for crazy a** urban fantasies, some just wanna laugh n party... ect *list´s endless*)
i´m just glad n appreciate the fact that my eyes remained open long enough to have looked beyond the big bowl of "bullcRap" waved in front of´em day in n day out on TV, i gotta love the diversity wich gives way to the fact that i can today go nuts bumpin some Qwell with the boys n watch me some booty shakin to some Chingy @ the club later, whatever the hell is babblin on about.
Peace

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/LeDiableNoir/llEgoSig.jpg">

"I walk around the underground as a powerful thundersound

Wearing the low down profound lyrical wonder crown"
- Benefit


[ This message was edited by: iLL_eG0_AL13n on 21-09-2004 00:18 ]
img]http://images2.imagehigh.com/imagehigh/N/16062005125945_NewAGSig.JPG[/img]
[size=22]Liƒè'§ Ill, sØmëti(¥)ë§ lìƒë (¥)ìght Kìll...[/size]


Blaque_Poetess

  • AG Hustler
  • ***
    • Posts: 161
    • REP: +1/-1
    • View Profile
yo, i feel both sides of the argument. People find ´conscious´ hip-hop boring, but i think it depends on the person. like for me, a song is not just about the beats, its also about the lyrics, and i dont wanna be bopping my head in agreement to sum vulgar, morally regenerative ish. i´d rather listen to sumthing positive, or listen to an emcee fill me in on an issue that affects us. Like Jeru the damaja is on that conscious tip, but his ish is engaging, etertaining and also very thought provoking(i´m not your average nigga), and how about Dead prez on that psychology and animal in man, and Ra** Ka** on drama, there are plenty of mc´s that feed us sum nice ish. But i do undastand that peeps can get bored listening to that ish all the time. altho i dont! And i also think that as people we´ve been conditioned to a  certain vibe with regards to hip-hop. not many people are expposed to the ´conscious´ mc´s whereas the ´degenerative pimp´ mc´s are like everywhere, magazines, mtv, sabc the media is like pumping that ish, and i think that thats where the problem lies...


Dpleezy

  • Run Tings
  • AG O.G.
  • *
    • Posts: 6814
    • REP: +26/-56
    • Gender:Male
    • View Profile
    • Pioneer Unit Records
all i am asking is why the conscious hiphop beats are all the same,,, it´s a cliched boring, old skool formula. yeah,,, what they are saying is ok to a point,,, but the beats, the beats!! BOOOOOOOOORRRRRING!!!!!! I would rather listen to someone talking shit over hot beats, than some psuedo-philosopher preaching to me on some sleep-inducing track. Where´s the innovation? Of course there are exceptions, but not many.


MaddStone

  • AG Veteran
  • *****
    • Posts: 3374
    • REP: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://www.facultyofhiphop.org.za
I guess it all comes down to taste as well.But sometimes, u get that "breaking the mould" type of formula which is on the next ish type of level.Thats the stuff that really has me smiling.When u get the sensible chatter together with some major flava beats.Its all tight like that.

Hey Dp, I checked Syntactic was online just now.Hope the vid shoot is going well.Hit me back on that.Nice.
Don't Hate, Rather Debate" - Mykh-ill Angel-oH

“I’m not a star, and I don’t want to be a star. Stars fall. I’m an entertainer, a performer" - Bernie Mac