Hip Hop - From Old Skool to New

[Nar8iv]

I read this article posted on the AG homepage, and downloaded the slideshow.
I think this lecture/ study was relevant in the sense that HIPHOP music has evolved to a stage where people are questioning it's validity in terms of culture.
To fully understand where on is going one has to know where you have come from.It was nice to have a condensed version of the foundation of hiphop, there arent many protagonists of our culture who would have taken the time to release a document like this.

Many of the trends within south african hiphop become clearer when i read the script.As some one who attended the Homeage ParkJams in CT , I also grasp the importance of such events at atime when hiphop seems to have lost the plot.

That's how it all started , with dj's essentially taking the culture to the ma**es in an informal/outdoor/ghetto setting.
THE BOOTLEG has in its actions essentially reaffirmed the neccesity to renergize hiphop by rekindling the seesnces we may have discarded completely.

Slide 28 mentions issues that i would also like to elaborate on,if the prof wants to engage with another documentarian , i would love to chat with him about them - especially about the role of women in hiphop.
the thread "where r the women at" - started by "neverthem" stated an important issue related to this topic, it's a pity few people bothered to engage his questions properly.

[briCK]

intresting...

I tend to try as hard as I can to not disscuss Hip Hop, but its always nice to see someone read an article and digest it and understand it in the bigger picture context and see exactly what the writter mean't to express and understand it so much so that they (the reader..you) are inspired and enlitened and mentally stimulated!! Good for you.

womans role in Hip Hop? I always maintain that THEY must get in where THEY fit in, I belive that Hip Hop has no room for half steppers, you either down or you not. I think woman in Hip Hop are fighting themselves by either trying to mobilize feminine revolution in Hip Hop and by so doing THEY alinaite themselves from the rest of the culture, coz the minute you start a revoltion it means you don't like how things currently are so you create an enemy of those in the culture who are mostly male and it appears like its WE the males and the THEM females and its a case of us beeing unable to co-exits..Girl Power type mentality(f*** outta here with that shit), collective OR they over compensate which comes across as if they not confident in themsleves and as everyone knows that hip hop heads will eat you alive if you show the smallest hint of ... etc etc etc

there are so many females in Hip Hop that i know, have hanged with, heard and they just heads to me, i don't even look at them as females heads theres no such thing if i am a head and feel hip hop and you feel hip hop then you a head like me, there is no need to cla**ify one as briCK the head and orther diCK head you either a head or not.

yeah.. i totally butchered that, my writting is not as articulate as my speech I am writter that talks..

anyway no thread diviation Glad you were inspired by the article  .

I always feel like say..its cool sweety you can cry and still love MOP. you can be a head and still be a girl and rock short skirts or baggy or whatever you like all i care about is is you realy real and can we just kick it and connect on a hip hop plane..BUT bitch wanna battle a nigga to prove she nice, not nessesary shit I don't rap much..you be female! and do you...

some males is bitches too, so on light note and a humourous way females you NOT alone

Halla

[RearrangedReality]

briCK, always got something to say  and on every topic you always have interesting input.

I'll post my response to this topic later.

[briCK]

briCK, always got something to say  

you should see how many post i don't click submit ON..EVERY single topic raised i wanna say something just that I hold back coz shit..this is AG not briCKs little say whatever and whenever place

[Nar8iv]

When I started this thread I was apprehensive about whether I would receive any responses.I am astounded by the fact that with the AG being a forum for HIPHOP culture , how few people are willing to share ideas or knowledge on the concept.(Out of arrogance?...or is it ignorance?)

So - on our continued topic- the presence of females in hiphop.
Major artists whom the most of us respect havent exactly projected an accurate pic of the female role in society.All of us can quote the names of at least 5 songs where the topic relates to f***ing the living daylights out of a h*e...or how many times the word bi*** in refernce to a female appears in track.

We also have ,ahem, "artists" who with one side of their mouths talk about sistaz keeping their heads up & then in the next track talking about how many they wanna hit & how they wanna hit it in dolby surround sound & widescreen.

Relating it to the original article - Maybe female MC's are disheartened by the hypocracy in the "culture".How can we call it culture if we have a screwed up value system?

Your writing is just fine brick..i relate to a lot of what you said.
If we dont discuss hiphop - THEN HOW R THE YOUNG ONES LISTENING TO FIDDY & GAME SUPPOSED TO KNOW BETTER.someone must teach them.
someone taught me.

[crus-ou]

- especially about the role of women in hiphop.
the thread "where r the women at" - started by "neverthem" stated an important issue related to this topic, it's a pity few people bothered to engage his questions properly.

That was a chick.  

About women in hip hop and Girl power BS I think that is such a wimpish cop out that takes from the emancipation of complete love and commitment to the movement. As briCk said get in where you fit in...it is permitted.

I think briCk dun said it all anywayz.

But ja nay that was a good article.

[crus-ou]

someone must teach them.
someone taught me.

I find there is alot of "preaching to the choir" within the movement going on because; if we're all on the same boat opposition and possible ego bruising is minimal. But that is one part of a greater spectrum.

Also like crabs in a bucket cats fight among themselves for shit resembling a PS game gone wrong.

PS. I am all for ladies rocking mini's...could we throw in some low cut V-necks??

[briCK]

Relating it to the original article - Maybe female MC's are disheartened by the hypocracy in the "culture".How can we call it culture if we have a screwed up value system?

anyone who takes what rappers say without a pinch of salt is quite obviously not a smart individual and does not understand that rapping and what rappers do are not ALWAYS the same. Hip Hop is more than the music or Art forms I have spent entire conversations with heads and not even mentioned anything Hip Hop related(some of them are female ..Nat blak halla).

Like I have stated its about like minded individuals who come they from they own unique background with one bidding glue-- the love for the Art.

As for the mysogny..haha cummon most is just fun and games ..problem? some people, males included take it seriously and misbrand the Art form, shit a bitch in my eyes is a bitch, especially if she f***ing you and some other cat,  she shady and deserves to be treated as such. and at times shit ..you need to rhyme about a female and your riches and you'll hard pressed to rhyme riches and queen or earth or woman or whatever and it hits u like a ton of bricks oh shit BITCHES..

well yeah and heads female heads know that and just brush it off as such...one of my female friends says this ALL the time when we talking about Tumelo the DJ she Always refers to her as the DJ bitch ..it don't mean shit but that she talking bout Tumelo ..ITS NOT THAT BIG A DEAL

or is it? coz i don't see it

[crus-ou]

It's like gay people calling dumb shit faggot...

[Nar8iv]

if you're picking up resentment in my tone then i am truly sorry.

1.) no ego bruising - i just wonder about people's willingness to share a constructive view or ubuntu - you know?thats in terms of being taught.

2.)What one speaks of is more often than not the representation of ones heart condition or one's motivation.If your lyrics have a preoccupation with what is not beneficial then what does that say about your motivations ..or your inner being for that matter.

If you are an artist - your intention is to leave behind something tangible for the next generation / audience.If your creation has no value...how will ones creativity stand up to tests of possibe ambiguity.If it barks like a dog ..it must be a dog.If you say something then it is who you are - or your deception is apparent ...where's integrity?

[briCK]

you sound like an Idealist and obviously take your Hip Hop seriously and seems you do it for a spiritual feed, which i respect i trully do, but you KNOW that not all rappers are MCs or Artists..I don't Listen to Mos Def with the same ear as I do Quasimoto .. they are both artist in they own right but express it differently..Sean Price iclearly just cat who can rap and talks about shit his boys get up too which I can relate and kinda lol.

See the difference When he talks about smoking 20blunts I'm like haha this cats..I can't take what he says too seriously he obviously is doing it for escapisim. But if Mos Def is talking about "Hip Hop went from selling crack to smoking it" I am like shit!! this shit real out there.

How you express your Art is up to you how it is received is YOUR responsibility, you are responsible for how people wll take your music if you litter it with random thoughtlessness it will be taken as such.

I am startled at how "seriously" your take your hip hop and I hope that there are more people who do too beacuse for some people myself included its a personnal thing. its not a hobby or job its has been a**imilated and is now part of my essense.

[Original Syn]

Yo this is something I've puzzled on periodically for many years, I got many female friends but i can count on one hand the ones who REALLY are deep in this thing called hip hop. And thru my closeness to a particularly skilled emcee called Staple Feud, who is female, I've had this framework to see this arts effect on the female psyche... i see someone wit mad skill on the mic whose killed cats in a battle format in front of a large portion of the Pen Tech student body, who loves hip hop but has gotten to a point where she don't wanna rhyme so much anymore cos, she growin up and the image of being a strong woman and having everyday concerns is seen as something she's "allowed" to have at the same time as being IN hip hop, just look at Jean Grae's rants and troubles. Hey her choice, but what can I say, I grew up on hip hop which was largely mysoginistic and I still love the shit I grew up on, even though I now also appreciate more"soulful" stuff.....
I think alot of the problem is that us men define ourselves in terms of women,,, be it how many we've slept with, how many have hurt us, how many we've hurt, how many we want, how many want us..whatever. And for a large proportion of the guys who've made hip hop thru the years have defined themselves by placing themselves above women (their right fine) but they put themselves above by putting women down, bein bitches and hoes...yes there are bitches and hoes, but yo mom and yo duaghter aint right? Also the first women who got notoriety in this thing got it by also buying into the bitch/hoe syndrome...Lil Kim, Jacki-O, Rah Digga, Hell even Lady of Rage doen some "break this off" shit wit her scary self. That don't help shit.
Thing is only way I can see this shit changin is, EVERYBODY decidin it aint right and fixin it...lets face it, thats NOT going to happen.
By rights Hip Hop shouldn't be about gender, it started off bein about race, now we cant even use that, we ran out of serious issues to be angry about...so now its about money and everything else is too difficult...besides we need money to survive...so decide you either makin The Man money by bein a hip hop nigga or you makin The Man money by bein his industry nigga..in whatever industry you in.Somehow we gotta find the way  to take ownership..and that doesn't mean havin your own label, that means defining the market and culture on your own terms, but how do you do that when you cant reach enough peeps?
I honestly don't know....its not about where are the women..its about where is hip hop..and who is hip hop....
Hip hop shouldn't actually be about the cat who spits or produces or breaks or writes... its supposed to be about our families and the communities that produced us.. but we've been taught our whole lives that where we come from is shit...I don't know whow to combat that......

[Nar8iv]

mr syntatic, nice to engage you again.
speaking of being engaged - i'm aware of stape feud's activism in HipHop -since i was in crew with her (3DEEP) briefly and had the pleasure of reading so many of her scripts.

I am still lucky enough , not as often as I used to , to be able to speak my mind about the state of the game with her.It's ironic that we bring her into this conversation because totally coincidently i was researching on "the faculty of hip hop" & came across her essays (frivolous a**umptions lead to grave concerns ) in the archive which relates directly to this topic.

to keep a long thread short , my understanding is not far form yours.I know that mos mcs ron the modus operandi of "testamony" or "test the money" i.e if the profitability is there then i will go with it.

jastis my broe , the problem will be there as long as humans exist,but i'm glad there ar media peeps like you around who arent afraid to speak like you did here.

[Original Syn]

Ya broe, don't worry I'm well clued up on 3Deep...I stood in for you on that track on Ghetto Bootleg vol.1 (just call me super-sub, got 12 minutes to write a verse and then get a mic stuffed in my face, Stone and his sister somma get forceful when they want something done) and bra I'm not a media peep, I'm justa peep.

[phreshy_superstar]

to me, rap is about social commentary or offering some profound personal introspection or what ever... to who ever will listen. and the thing about “art” is that it marginalizes “correctness” and emphasises perception. it’s not right or wrong, it’s relative and how one reacts is the key. also, the individual determines his/her own level of involvement in hiphop. some folks like it and find it intriguing and some live it and become it.  

some emcees are gifted at, and really embrace the rap part of hiphop, avoiding the other important elements. to get the full picture, it is important to acknowledge all the other aspects of hiphop. syntactic touched on a very important element that is overlooked: community. one of the core elements of hiphop is about building that cohesive and productive community that promotes mastery in anything an individual puts his/her  mind to. a community where the question: where are the women in hiphop? will no longer be asked. and the AG forums are a great start!

the misogyny part of hiphop is a mixture of its beautiful contradiction and the pure craze that comes with fantasy, excess and power. while some artists harness these things in one way, other emcees harness it in another. And its no secret that hiphop cleverly tends to mirror societal norms – however wack they may be... so this also applies to using the derogatory word b*tch... apparently – it is what it is – just be sure to guide/explain to young minds on its usage and ensure you have all the facts right and do not call a woman a b*tch only because you speculate... that’s what society is comfortable with... but being derogatory takes away from the community aspect of hiphop because all people hear is the cursing and they immediately reduce it to some cult that adolescents use for venting. that is a discredit to hiphop...