Abu Ghraib Prison photos - US up to their old tricks

[Pax]

It seems the Geneva convention only applies to a select few.   This is sick...  

http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444" TARGET="_blank">www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444

Pax

PS Still waiting for those elusive WMDs. :-|  :-Y  

[Pax]

Man... What the f? The six US soldiers, who may be facing courts-martial (in connection with the mistreatment of the Iraqi prisoners), are saying that they were unaware about the Geneva Conventions.  Listen I may be a dumba**, but if that´s not a lame justification than ... man I don´t know...   But let´s a**ume that they didn’t know, does this mean that the US army is filled with ignorant, uneducated excuses of human excrement, with absolutely no understanding of international law?  Oh man oh man…  

Surely than the blame should go to their superiors as well, after all  their superiors should have made sure that these army jocks, with their M16s, and below average IQs, have at least an understanding of it.   :-Y  After all, whenever there´s a conflict we´re always reminded of the Geneva Conventions on CNN, and how imoral  it is to show US army personel as captives. :-Y


[ This message was edited by: Pax on 01-05-2004 21:06 ]

[sunchild]

I feel like vomiting right now just had a nice meal. :-Y  :-Y  :-Y  :-Y  :-Y  " all empires come to a end."

[Anonymous]

Let me first say that I am a proud veteran of the United States Armed Forces. I once believed and still hope that this war will ultimately serve a positive purpose.

That said, I am utterly disgusted and embarra**ed by the actions of these soldiers. It saddens me that the bravery and heroism of so many good people has been besmirched by the idiotic, unprofessional actions of these people. Let me point out that since the time of the first Gulf War, it has been the policy for the U.S. military to use a very large percentage of National Guard and Reservist troops for these endeavors. I do not know the idea behind this, I was not an officer and I never attended a war college. My a**uption would be that the idea is to hold the majority of our real troops in reserve, should a larger necessity emerge.

These guardsmen and reservists are "weekend warriors." Most  never expected to ever see a real war zone. They are not career or professional soldiers, and many are angry that they have to be there. They are as well trained as you can be on one weekend a month; not very.

These people need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. They are an embarra**ment to themselves, and our country. The damage that they have done is incalculable.

Pax said, "...But let´s a**ume that they didn’t know, does this mean that the US army is filled with ignorant, uneducated excuses of human excrement, with absolutely no understanding of international law?" -- No. That is not true and displays your ignorance of the matter. The reason this situation came to light was due to other soldiers  standing up to do the right thing. According to The New Yorker (4/30/2004) http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/" target="_blank" target="_new">http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/:

         "The abuses became public because of the outrage of Specialist Joseph M. Darby, an M.P. whose role emerged during the Article 32 hearing against Chip Frederick. A government witness, Special Agent Scott Bobeck, who is a member of the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division, or C.I.D., told the court, according to an abridged transcript made available to me, ´The investigation started after SPC Darby . . . got a CD from CPL Graner. . . . He came across pictures of naked detainees.´ Bobeck said that Darby had ´initially put an anonymous letter under our door, then he later came forward and gave a sworn statement. He felt very bad about it and thought it was very wrong.´"

There was no cover-up, and these professionals did their duty, investigated, brought the situation to light, and took action.

As far as I can remember, no-one in Saddam´s military did this; and the atrocities that were committed under his regime were far more serious, and went on for decades.

While I very much respect everyone´s right to express their opinion, attempt to shape policy and do the right thing, there are evil and stupid people everywhere in the world, including the ranks of the anti-war movement.

As far as the US being up to their old tricks; what tricks are those? The liberation of nations from tyrannical military dicatorship as we did in World War II? Or the freeing of people enslaved by their own country, as we did in our American civil war some 130 years before your country got around to it?

MuddyG

[Subzy]

wow, anonymous cut to the chase, ´spect.
though i haven´t been in the service, my mom was a military brat, my pops is from amsterdam, and i grew up in germany, close to army and air force bases, ok, so for the most part, soldiers aren´t the most educated of people, no offence to anonymous, but having been there, he could probably relate, lots of the soldiers (the closed minded ones) come to germany, and show little interest or respect for the culture, over there, and only see the americanism at hand, there is a lot of ignorance and arrogance, in the military, but you have to understand, that most soldiers aren´t the happiest of people, getting married, making babies, is quite often a soldiers refuge, i have spent almost a year, living on a military post in germany, in housing at a good friends house, and when this war thing started poping off, a lot of madness, came with it, you´d hear missiles and rounds and rounds being fired every day at the near by range, this to me is quite depressing, to a soldier it his existence, unless he or she chooses, to partake in other activities, besides drinking and slaving for the man, to give life a healthier definition, and a bit of a balance, but, many of the soldiers stationed overseas haven´t ever left their country, some haven´t even left their state, until time for basic training came around, and sad to say, many soldiers don´t even seize the opputunity to go out and explore, and stay near their post, besides the point, what i´m getting at is, although their are some real dick heads in the army, who live life by the collar, and have sadistic characteristics, cause of some pain inflicted on them at some point, many of the soldiers i´ve meet have good hearts, many are slightly retarded, some become patriotic manics, some become narcs, most go all out for their crews, but most of them have mouths to feed and or other responsabilities, and taking the responsability, is the aspect of their lives i respect the most, shit i nearly enlisted, when things got really hectic on my side, the actions that took place in Abu Ghraib are inexcusable, and those responsible will suffer the immediate consequences, i have a friend who just got back, from military prison in kuwait, for standing up to his superior, cause his morals didn´t coincide with the ideals of the happening, and i have another good friend who is down range right now, these are good, creative people, who are basically trying to support their seeds, and get their college money, all I´m saying is not every soldier is out for the carnage (some are), nor is every muslim out for jihad (again, some are), so kill the stereotyping.
ROCK, ROCK B-BOY!
ROCK, ROCK NANG!
the nang, the nang, the nang, the nang...

[Silence]

well being that in all oppresive systems there are those who sincerely believe that they are doing good and some that actually do (like colonisation, many thought that they were "educating\modernising"  us), that does not redeem the ultimate oppresive nature of the regime.

if Americans still do believe that they are "liberating" the Iraqis then it must be a case of "the Natives not knowing whats good for them". every sector of Iraqi society is violently opposing American imperilism, from religious and civic society to political and military organisations, if you think the hundreds of American bodies being flown home evry month are the product of a few "agitators" or Baath party\Saddam loyalists, then every Iraqi is a Saddam Loyalist.

I wouldn´t compare your petty tax "revolution" to the fight against imperial colonisation, exploitation and domination of Africa (the struggle goes on, we aren´t done!).Dont forget this is an African website not a cattle ranch,  cowboy.

[Subzy]

politics maan, it´s about money, not about the people as the word would suggest, the main reason france, germany, russia opposed the war, was because sadaam still owed them money, the germans even had still had an emba**y in iraq, short before the invasion started, the only reason the u.s. went out there is because there was money to be made, there are other countries with corrupt leaders, who in my opinion to be booted, but world powers don´t interfere, cause there is no money to be made, money rules the world, and it is the rich who execute, companies do whatever it takes for their stocks, that is where the true operation enduring freedom takes place, in the past there had always been, two world powers, france - england, u.s. - russia, the cold war is over. money leads to power, russia ran out of money, africa was abused in order to obtain this power, 3rd world development was first medicine, then food, then education, but it was the other way around, cause it was more profitable, to sell medicine, than food, cause knowledge is TRUE power, the true axis of evil are in the west, education in this country is at a high price, guns can get obtained easy, everybody packs around my way, and it is by no means to get cattle together, everyone here is out for self, delf, dolo, the ma**es in the u.s. are very poorly educated, (unless they are from wealth, and go to prep, and ivy schools somewhere in new england. in other countries education is a human right, and universities are free, here you pay out yuor a**. tv brainwashes the ma**es, fox news fill feed patriots bullshit, when pearl harbor was hit, u.s. knew it was coming, but saw it as an oppurtunity to get involved in the 2nd world war, cause the ma**es were already tired  of war, cause of the first, but when pearl harbor was hit, everyone became patriotic, and the u.s. joined the allied forces, not for money, but because they figured if germany, were to obtain france, england,..basically europe, they would be next, similar with 9/11, they saw it coming, but abused it, to get the ma**es behind them, and build their pipeline in afghanistan, come on, what terrorist leaves a quoran in their rental car, and funny too, is that one of their suitcases didn´t make the flight, and had instructions to fly a plane,..hmm...our president in office, wasn´t even elected president, he stole that shit with the help of his brother, and his families powerful friends, i don´t know what tax revolution you are talking about, but we are going through a neo-conservative time, as the media might be blinding otherwise, but it is the historic cycle of things, the real revolution is us the people, worldwide, we need to educate our youth, we need to find answers, we need to ask the right questions, we need to get busy on ´em. we need to politic, cause this shit should be about us, and not about the lucci. come holler.

[Anonymous]

Silence said: "every sector of Iraqi society is violently opposing American imperilism, from religious and civic society to political and military organisations..."

Well, while I certainly would not be so absurd as to deny that there is opposition to the continued American presence (certainly not Imperialism, as the U.S. has no plans to rule Iraq), there is much support as well. According to the Australian website news.com.au article "Iraqis march on Baghdad" (http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,8012015%255E1702,00.html),
       
        "A US soldier was killed overnight in a mortar attack on a base in the north of Iraq as hundreds of Iraqis marched through the centre of Baghdad to protest against the violence plaguing the country´s reconstruction....
         Iraqi police and US forces closed off Baghdad´s main commercial thoroughfare as hundreds marched through the city centre to demonstrate against terrorism amid persistent fears of attack by anti-US insurgents or Islamic militants."
             
       From USA Today, 4/20/2004, Iraqis enjoy new freedom of expression on Web journals (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-20-bloggers_x.htm)
         
          ´A year ago, few Iraqis had ever had access to a computer, much less used it to communicate to the outside world.
           Now, Internet cafes seemingly dot every block in Baghdad, and new ones open often. That has led to a new phenomenon here: bloggers.
          "We suffered for years under Saddam Hussein, not being able to speak out," says Omar Fadhil, 24, a dentist. "Now, you can make your voice heard around the world."´

         Death and bloodshed are far more interesting to the consumers of worldwide media than the construction of national infrastructure. If you think you are not being manipulated, albeit nonintentionally,  think again.

Silence went on to say: ", if you think the hundreds of American bodies being flown home evry month are the product of a few "agitators" or Baath party\Saddam loyalists, then every Iraqi is a Saddam Loyalist. "

Well, let´s take a look at that.

Period              US            UK   Other*   Total   Avg   Days
------------------------------------------------------------------------
5-2004        /26    / 0   / 0    /26         /4.33    / 6
4-2004         /140    /0      /5     /145     /4.83          /30
3-2004         / 52     /0    /0   /52       /1.68         /31
2-2004        /20     /1    /2   /23        /0.79    /29
1-2004          /47     /5    /0   /52        /1.68    /31
12-2003      /40   /0   /8     / 48       /1.55        /31
11-2003      /82   /1   /27     /110      /3.67   /30
10-2003      /42    /1   /2   /45        /1.45   /31
9-2003          /31     /1   /1   /33         /1.1     /30
8-2003          /35     /6   /2   /43         /1.39    /31
7-2003          /47     /1   /0   /48         /1.55    /31
6-2003          /30     /6   /0   /36         /1.2     /30
5-2003          /37    /4   /0   /41         /1.32    /31
4-2003          /73     /6   /0   /79         /2.63    /30
3-2003          /65   /27   /0   /92        /7.67       /12
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Total           /767    /59   /47   /873       /2.11      /414

* = Other Coalition forces

           As you can see, "hundreds of American bodies" are NOT being flown home every month.  Of the 767 fallen US troops, only 575 died as a result of hostile fire. In fact, one of the top three killers of U.S. personnel in Iraq is not the enemy -- it´s vehicular accidents. And most of those accidents involve U.S. Humvees.

Subzy--
Uh, you are funny, my friend. "what terrorist leaves a quoran in their rental car?" Uh...  I guess the one who did not read Chapter 14, Paragraph 3, Subsection 12, Rule 11 in the terrorist handbook that reads, "Sixteen sticks of dynamite makes the best suicide bomb. Always use extra duct tape to avoid embarra**ing accidents. Also, never leave your Qu´ran in your rental car. It is very difficult to get it back from most agencies, especially Budget."

MuddyG

[faaibop]

is dere sumting wrong wit souf efrikan politix det we kennot discuss it here.
faaibop tink det ameriken political superiority is being perpetuated by shitty little discussions like what i´ve just read.

faaibop is disgustit

[Anonymous]

faaibop is 2 years old...

[faaibop]

..and he just tapped yo mama...

[Silence]

Sorry i might be wrong, but please take into account that All the articles you posted are taken from Coalition countries (Australia, USA) All media is biased.

I´m not stupid (and I´m sure you´re not either), if you expect me to believe that a third of your soldiers have died in car accidents, during a military occupation with a violent uprising, then my friend I have truly over estimated you.  Can American Soldiers not drive?, maybe its my definition of a vehicular accident. If your definition includes car bombs or any death inside a car then I might be naive enough to believe you.

Omar Fadhil is one person, I can make up a number of names of "Iraqis" and have them say whatever i want, if I´m a superpower I can pay any single person to say anything (everybody has tehre price), ut the true feelings of the iraqi people cannot be bought or thumb-sucked by a reporter because every time there is a "vehicular accident" the Iraqi people are sending a message to the world and it is a resounding no!

I understand your natural support for your country, espiaclly if you are a military vet. but you are obviously an educated fella, open your eys and see beyond patriotic pride

Blah!

Subzy, the tax revolution I was reffering to was the great American Revolution, I personally have no problem with your revolution, but your fellow citizen  attempted to undermine our struggle, so Blah!

[Anonymous]

Wanted new images for Al-Queida recruitment posters :-]

send all replies to posters@72virgins.org

[Anonymous]

look who gives a crap about the photos! lets not forget how they were treated before the us showed up! a few pics did not hurt anybody. i think its funny!!! lol :-]